Cyprus-Forum.com

[CopperLine]

Boomerang,
No. Do you ?

[boomerang]

Boomerang,
No. Do you ?

Nope...I never made such a broad statement but I know someone who has...can you guess who?...copperline

[CopperLine]

What broad statement are you talking about ? What has this got to do with your allegation of stupidity ?

[boomerang]

No Paphitis you are quite mistaken when you write :

The TCs are welcome to have their property back after they have proven no illegal ownership of stolen GC property.

A claimant does not have to prove the innocence of fellow community members before seeking remedy. This would be an absurd requirement which would cripple any legal system which rested on such a procedure.

For example, I'm a TC from Limmasol who wants to claim back my land. You are saying that I have to show that other TCs who I have never met nor have any knowledge of did not occupy stolen land before I can recover my land. For example, you are a GC from Kyrenia, who wants to claim back you land. You are saying that you have to show that other GCs who you have never met nor have any knowledge of did not occupy my land in Limmasol before you can recover your land. Holy moly !

Nope they only have to prove they ain't in possesion of stolen goods...

[Paphitis]

No Paphitis you are quite mistaken when you write :

The TCs are welcome to have their property back after they have proven no illegal ownership of stolen GC property.

A claimant does not have to prove the innocence of fellow community members before seeking remedy. This would be an absurd requirement which would cripple any legal system which rested on such a procedure.

For example, I'm a TC from Limmasol who wants to claim back my land. You are saying that I have to show that other TCs who I have never met nor have any knowledge of did not occupy stolen land before I can recover my land. For example, you are a GC from Kyrenia, who wants to claim back you land. You are saying that you have to show that other GCs who you have never met nor have any knowledge of did not occupy my land in Limmasol before you can recover your land. Holy moly !

NO. You must prove that YOU have not broken RoC laws by residing in stolen GC property.

If you want to claim you land in Limmasol, you must prove that YOU have not stolen GC property. Once this is done you are free to claim your land. If you have stolen GC property, then you could be prosecuted.

[boomerang]

What broad statement are you talking about ? What has this got to do with your allegation of stupidity ?

Negotiating with the thieves...in order to get back what belongs to me...

copperline I wonder about you some times, if the education money was well spend, of cource unless you defend crooks for a lliving...

[CopperLine]

No Boomerang. It is not that you are stupid it is that you (and Paphitis) are mistaken.

Consider an analogy from a domestic court. In a criminal (or civil) proceeding the victim or a crime or tort does not have to prove that they themselves are innocent any wrongdoing before they can take action against their respondent or accused. For example, supposing I was accused of the murder of a distant cousin of yours, and your family rightly wants legal remedy. You do not have to prove that you - a very distant cousin - are innocent of any and all possible offences against me before you can proceed in an action against me. Our respective other crimes vis. one another are, essentially, irrelevant.

That is unless you support the idea of collective punishment - which is fundamentally illegal under international law.

[CopperLine]

I never mentioned 'negotiations' or 'thieves'. What are you talking about ?

[Paphitis]

No Boomerang. It is not that you are stupid it is that you (and Paphitis) are mistaken.

Consider an analogy from a domestic court. In a criminal (or civil) proceeding the victim or a crime or tort does not have to prove that they themselves are innocent any wrongdoing before they can take action against their respondent or accused. For example, supposing I was accused of the murder of a distant cousin of yours, and your family rightly wants legal remedy. You do not have to prove that you - a very distant cousin - are innocent of any and all possible offences against me before you can proceed in an action against me. Our respective other crimes vis. one another are, essentially, irrelevant.

That is unless you support the idea of collective punishment - which is fundamentally illegal under international law.

It is very simple. Come to the RoC, prove that you do not possess stolen GC land, and claim what is rightfully yours.

Could not be any simpler unless you are afraid and trying to hide the possibility of utilizing stolen land....which would lead to prosecution.

[CopperLine]

If you want to claim you land in Limmasol, you must prove that YOU have not stolen GC property. Once this is done you are free to claim your land. If you have stolen GC property, then you could be prosecuted.

No Paphitis and a thousand times no, this is not how law works, neither in Cyprus nor in any modern legal system. This is not my opinion; this is a matter of demonstrable fact. You don't believe me ? OK, go to a court in Cyprus and look at any number of proceedings and judgements, and tell me whether the personal history of criminal or civil wrongs of claimants is investigated before cases are heard. It'll be in the records. And what do the records show ? They show that no court ever looks into that history. It simply does not happen. (Now you may wish that it would happen but, thank god, it doesn't work like that ... anywhere with a modern legal system).

If I did occupy stolen GC land (which I don't, as a matter of fact) then yes I would face prosecution. But I would such a prosecution irrespective of your status, crimes and misdemeanours or my other alleged crimes and misdemeanours.