Cyprus-Forum.com

[Oracle]

142. Memorandum of Conversation1
Washington, August 20, 1974, 8:30 a.m.
PARTICIPANTS
President Ford
Bipartisan Congressional Leadership
Dr. Henry A. Kissinger, Secretary of State and Assistant to the President for
National Security Affairs
Lt. Gen. Brent Scowcroft, Deputy Assistant to the President for National Security
Affairs

President: It is important that we have continuity.
[After some discussion of other subjects the President asked Dr.
Kissinger to brief.]2

Kissinger: Briefly about the development of the Cyprus situation
and where we are. It started when the Greek junta used the Greek officers
in Cyprus to overthrow Makarios and put in a government with
support of the EOKA, as an attempt to bring about enosis.

In 1960 the Constitution was set up; in 1964 Makarios overthrew
it. In 1967 there was another one and since then the Turkish people had
been living in ghettos and the Turks thought the U.S. had kept them
from getting their rights. The Makarios overthrow and the junta’s unpopularity
gave the Turks an opportunity to rectify the situation. They
moved in. Initially we were under heavy pressure to overthrow the
Greek government. We tried to keep the crisis from being internationalized
and to prevent the change of the constitutional government in
Cyprus. The junta fell, Karamanlis came in, and the British got the talks
started. We kept in the background so as not to look like we were the
policemen for every civil war.

Clerides we think is a good man.
We support the Greek government, but since it had replaced the
junta it didn’t feel it could make concessions. It was afraid of being
caught between the left and the right. The Greek Cypriots are willing
to make concessions. Also the British got mad at the Turks and
put pressure on them, thus relieving the pressure on the Turks for
concessions.
The solution was to be greater autonomy for the Turkish Cypriots
and restoration of the 1960 Constitution.


From: http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/96606.pdf

You asked for a mistake, and I have given you one. Doubtless there may be more.

The above might be of interest. The whole opus makes tantalising reading as far as the History of Cyprus is concerned. One would have never thought that a tiny prick like Cyprus could be a thorn in the worlds backside.

So are you speaking to us through the voice of Kissinger now

[denizaksulu]

After Independence, a brother-in-law of mine from Kophinou, had a picture of President Makarios and Vice President Dr.F.Kucuk signing the Zurich Agreement. He was asked why did he have a phtograph of Makarios on the wall. He replied, "this is history in the making" , and added "from now on we will be living in peace".

Little did he know, that within a few years, that peace he had hoped for would be shattered. In 1967 he was facing the wild gangs and the National Guard, who attacked his village and where many were killed. This was not the peace he had hoped for.

Our first mistake was to trust Pres. Makarios not to try and alter the Constitution, to make it unucceptable to the TurkishCypriot population.

Tell your brother in law that peace can not come by you collaborating with the colonialists in the 50s and then imposing on the Cypriots a foreign made constidution that benefited you on the loss of the rest of Cypriots and served the interests of those foreigners who wrote it.

This holds true for today and the negotiations that go on now. You are again trying to blackmail us to accept your demands by illegally keeping 1/3rd of our country as a hostage. Do you think that if any agreement comes out of this it will bring peace? No, it will not. Thats not the way to bring peace.

To bring peace there is only one way:

Freedom to Cyprus from foreign troops, democracy, and equality among all citizens without racist discriminations. Nothing more and nothing less than what happens in every other peaceful democratic country. The recipe for peace is known. It is up to you if you decide to accept it, or if you insist on trying to gain by force on our loss.

My dear B-in L passed away so till I join him......


So according to you there will never be peace. Thats fine. A true partitionist you turned out to be. You should go live in the North and live happily ever after.

It is up to you if there will be peace or not. I am simply trying to explain to you that by using military force to steal lands, violate human rights and force a nation on some sort of a capitulation agreement is not the way to achieve a long lasting peace.

It was by force of arms that you tried the same and failed Piratis. You have shown your card and intentions. You need to get a life.

[denizaksulu]

142. Memorandum of Conversation1
Washington, August 20, 1974, 8:30 a.m.
PARTICIPANTS
President Ford
Bipartisan Congressional Leadership
Dr. Henry A. Kissinger, Secretary of State and Assistant to the President for
National Security Affairs
Lt. Gen. Brent Scowcroft, Deputy Assistant to the President for National Security
Affairs

President: It is important that we have continuity.
[After some discussion of other subjects the President asked Dr.
Kissinger to brief.]2

Kissinger: Briefly about the development of the Cyprus situation
and where we are. It started when the Greek junta used the Greek officers
in Cyprus to overthrow Makarios and put in a government with
support of the EOKA, as an attempt to bring about enosis.

In 1960 the Constitution was set up; in 1964 Makarios overthrew
it. In 1967 there was another one and since then the Turkish people had
been living in ghettos and the Turks thought the U.S. had kept them
from getting their rights. The Makarios overthrow and the junta’s unpopularity
gave the Turks an opportunity to rectify the situation. They
moved in. Initially we were under heavy pressure to overthrow the
Greek government. We tried to keep the crisis from being internationalized
and to prevent the change of the constitutional government in
Cyprus. The junta fell, Karamanlis came in, and the British got the talks
started. We kept in the background so as not to look like we were the
policemen for every civil war.

Clerides we think is a good man.
We support the Greek government, but since it had replaced the
junta it didn’t feel it could make concessions. It was afraid of being
caught between the left and the right. The Greek Cypriots are willing
to make concessions. Also the British got mad at the Turks and
put pressure on them, thus relieving the pressure on the Turks for
concessions.
The solution was to be greater autonomy for the Turkish Cypriots
and restoration of the 1960 Constitution.


From: http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/96606.pdf

You asked for a mistake, and I have given you one. Doubtless there may be more.

The above might be of interest. The whole opus makes tantalising reading as far as the History of Cyprus is concerned. One would have never thought that a tiny prick like Cyprus could be a thorn in the worlds backside.

So are you speaking to us through the voice of Kissinger now

Oracle, your friends like quoting the Americans. Do you have the monopoly of this. I never quote TC/Turkish sources, because I know the reply I will get from you(pl.) Interesting reading.

[Oracle]

I wonder if VP has noticed this thread ... or is he hoping it will just go away ....

[denizaksulu]

I wonder if VP has noticed this thread ... or is he hoping it will just go away ....

He is battling it out with Humanist.

I thought this thread died a terrible death. It could promise a few good responses. I wonder why it is being ignored.?

[Oracle]

I wonder if VP has noticed this thread ... or is he hoping it will just go away ....

He is battling it out with Humanist.

I thought this thread died a terrible death. It could promise a few good responses. I wonder why it is being ignored.?

Maybe because you brought Kissinger into it!

[denizaksulu]

I wonder if VP has noticed this thread ... or is he hoping it will just go away ....

He is battling it out with Humanist.

I thought this thread died a terrible death. It could promise a few good responses. I wonder why it is being ignored.?

Maybe because you brought Kissinger into it!

Still , interesting reading. Do you expect me to apologise? I was given this link by another GC forumer. I must thank him. Lots of gaps re: Cyprob were filled in. I am half way through it.

Time to say goodnight all.

[umit07]

Maybe because Oracle opened it! WHy don't you start with making one yourself first Oracle?

[Oracle]

Maybe because Oracle opened it! WHy don't you start with making one yourself first Oracle?

Huh .... I'm always opening threads despite resistance, objections etc.

I think GR scared everyone off with insistence on TCs not providing "misinformation" .... so then that does not leave much

But the main reason is that it was aimed at finding out if VP has ever actually admitted to any past mistakes or whether he just claims he has ...

I guess silence speaks louder than words....

[74LB]

Things we did wrong huh.

1. The second phase of the peace opperation in my opinion was carried out too hastily.
2. Settlers were brought to the island the same year as the intervention.
3. Many TC's went on looting everything and thought it would continue , many TC's who weren't cunning enough to get anything had to emigrate off the island.

To continue this theme.............my view of mistakes by the TC side (post 74).

1 - Deep down, I just wish the TC's waited further before declaring the TRNC - and before that, there were a couple of other declaration, one a federal state (Kibris Turk Federe Develt), and before that another one (something like Otonom Kibris something or another ?).
We should have negotiated and negotiated until agreement was reached to the satisfaction of both sides (and I'm not ignoring the Armenians, Maronites and other minorities by saying this)

2 - The settlers - definately should never have been allowed in. Don't care what the reason was, their arrival was wrong.
A negotiated settlement would have been so much easier. Now, 35 years later, this will be a nightmare to resolve

3 - The Land Exchange scheme (Esdeger) was a complete balls up.
So many stories of people who who deserved compensation and ended up with bugger all, and others who had lost nothing benefitting enormously. This is not right.

4 - As was the issuing of title deeds for property that don't belong to you. And then being allowed to sell these on as well.
Another joke, and look at the mess it has left behind

5 - Currency - adopting the TL was a joke. Nobody could make heads or tails of it, and it kept spiralling out of control.
And nobody was laughing either