Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

After Independence, a brother-in-law of mine from Kophinou, had a picture of President Makarios and Vice President Dr.F.Kucuk signing the Zurich Agreement. He was asked why did he have a phtograph of Makarios on the wall. He replied, "this is history in the making" , and added "from now on we will be living in peace".

Little did he know, that within a few years, that peace he had hoped for would be shattered. In 1967 he was facing the wild gangs and the National Guard, who attacked his village and where many were killed. This was not the peace he had hoped for.

Our first mistake was to trust Pres. Makarios not to try and alter the Constitution, to make it unucceptable to the TurkishCypriot population.

Tell your brother in law that peace can not come by you collaborating with the colonialists in the 50s and then imposing on the Cypriots a foreign made constidution that benefited you on the loss of the rest of Cypriots and served the interests of those foreigners who wrote it.

This holds true for today and the negotiations that go on now. You are again trying to blackmail us to accept your demands by illegally keeping 1/3rd of our country as a hostage. Do you think that if any agreement comes out of this it will bring peace? No, it will not. Thats not the way to bring peace.

To bring peace there is only one way:

Freedom to Cyprus from foreign troops, democracy, and equality among all citizens without racist discriminations. Nothing more and nothing less than what happens in every other peaceful democratic country. The recipe for peace is known. It is up to you if you decide to accept it, or if you insist on trying to gain by force on our loss.

[Paphitis]

After Independence, a brother-in-law of mine from Kophinou, had a picture of President Makarios and Vice President Dr.F.Kucuk signing the Zurich Agreement. He was asked why did he have a phtograph of Makarios on the wall. He replied, "this is history in the making" , and added "from now on we will be living in peace".

Little did he know, that within a few years, that peace he had hoped for would be shattered. In 1967 he was facing the wild gangs and the National Guard, who attacked his village and where many were killed. This was not the peace he had hoped for.

Our first mistake was to trust Pres. Makarios not to try and alter the Constitution, to make it unucceptable to the TurkishCypriot population.

Tell your brother in law that peace can not come by you collaborating with the colonialists in the 50s and then imposing on the Cypriots a foreign made constidution that benefited you on the loss of the rest of Cypriots and served the interests of those foreigners who wrote it.

This holds true for today and the negotiations that go on now. You are again trying to blackmail us to accept your demands by illegally keeping 1/3rd of our country as a hostage. Do you think that if any agreement comes out of this it will bring peace? No, it will not. Thats not the way to bring peace.

To bring peace there is only one way:

Freedom to Cyprus from foreign troops, democracy, and equality among all citizens without racist discriminations. Nothing more and nothing less than what happens in every other peaceful democratic country. The recipe for peace is known. It is up to you if you decide to accept it, or if you insist on trying to gain by force on our loss.

And if they choose to not accept it, the TCs could always withdraw to their fair share of 18% and go it alone. Many GCs might find this as a more acceptable solution than to be held hostage with treaties of guarantees and unproportional representation.

[denizaksulu]

142. Memorandum of Conversation1
Washington, August 20, 1974, 8:30 a.m.
PARTICIPANTS
President Ford
Bipartisan Congressional Leadership
Dr. Henry A. Kissinger, Secretary of State and Assistant to the President for
National Security Affairs
Lt. Gen. Brent Scowcroft, Deputy Assistant to the President for National Security
Affairs

President: It is important that we have continuity.
[After some discussion of other subjects the President asked Dr.
Kissinger to brief.]2

Kissinger: Briefly about the development of the Cyprus situation
and where we are. It started when the Greek junta used the Greek officers
in Cyprus to overthrow Makarios and put in a government with
support of the EOKA, as an attempt to bring about enosis.

In 1960 the Constitution was set up; in 1964 Makarios overthrew
it. In 1967 there was another one and since then the Turkish people had
been living in ghettos and the Turks thought the U.S. had kept them
from getting their rights. The Makarios overthrow and the junta’s unpopularity
gave the Turks an opportunity to rectify the situation. They
moved in. Initially we were under heavy pressure to overthrow the
Greek government. We tried to keep the crisis from being internationalized
and to prevent the change of the constitutional government in
Cyprus. The junta fell, Karamanlis came in, and the British got the talks
started. We kept in the background so as not to look like we were the
policemen for every civil war.

Clerides we think is a good man.
We support the Greek government, but since it had replaced the
junta it didn’t feel it could make concessions. It was afraid of being
caught between the left and the right. The Greek Cypriots are willing
to make concessions. Also the British got mad at the Turks and
put pressure on them, thus relieving the pressure on the Turks for
concessions.
The solution was to be greater autonomy for the Turkish Cypriots
and restoration of the 1960 Constitution.


From: http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/96606.pdf

You asked for a mistake, and I have given you one. Doubtless there may be more.

The above might be of interest. The whole opus makes tantalising reading as far as the History of Cyprus is concerned. One would have never thought that a tiny prick like Cyprus could be a thorn in the worlds backside.

[Eric dayi]

... We too have made many mistakes, but with attitude like yours and Piratis you prove Denktash right everytime, ...

... VP this is the first time I hear you admitting mistakes on both sides. Actually I applaud this because it gives you more credibility....

..... why should I be forced to live in a GC state?

PS I have admitted our mistakes in past posts and even apologised but as you know people only read and remember what they want.

As Humanist says, such an admission is to be applauded. But I can't find these mistakes that have been confessed, only some sweeping statements and gesturing throwaway remarks.

Starting afresh ..... What are those mistakes the Turk-TCs admit to having made?
Mistakes that you (personal and collective) are not proud of and would rather not have carried out or have had happen.

How could those mistakes have been carried out differently? ... given the benefit of hindsight.

We have the freedom to make mistakes and by admitting to them they cease to be crimes.

Personal request: It would be really good if VP and the other Turk-TCs stated what they consider as the mistakes and their alternatives and eventually hopefully the GCs will chip in with our mistakes; and we can have a genuine exchange .... without the usual abusive [especially to me] hurlings, no matter how witty!

Our (TCs) biggest mistake was to trust the Greeks/GCs and sign an agreement with them believing that once Cyprus had it's independence the GCs and Greeks would not dare try to change the constitution and have a go at making their dream for ENSOIS come true even if meant genociding us TCs.


We should have known from the 50's that the Greeks and GCs were not to be trusted whatsoever which they proved they aren't in 1963 and are still proving it today by demanding to be the sole rulers of the whole of Cyprus
so that they can have their ENOSIS.

[Paphitis]

... We too have made many mistakes, but with attitude like yours and Piratis you prove Denktash right everytime, ...

... VP this is the first time I hear you admitting mistakes on both sides. Actually I applaud this because it gives you more credibility....

..... why should I be forced to live in a GC state?

PS I have admitted our mistakes in past posts and even apologised but as you know people only read and remember what they want.

As Humanist says, such an admission is to be applauded. But I can't find these mistakes that have been confessed, only some sweeping statements and gesturing throwaway remarks.

Starting afresh ..... What are those mistakes the Turk-TCs admit to having made?
Mistakes that you (personal and collective) are not proud of and would rather not have carried out or have had happen.

How could those mistakes have been carried out differently? ... given the benefit of hindsight.

We have the freedom to make mistakes and by admitting to them they cease to be crimes.

Personal request: It would be really good if VP and the other Turk-TCs stated what they consider as the mistakes and their alternatives and eventually hopefully the GCs will chip in with our mistakes; and we can have a genuine exchange .... without the usual abusive [especially to me] hurlings, no matter how witty!

Our (TCs) biggest mistake was to trust the Greeks/GCs and sign an agreement with them believing that once Cyprus had it's independence the GCs and Greeks would not dare try to change the constitution and have a go at making their dream for ENSOIS come true even if meant genociding us TCs.


We should have known from the 50's that the Greeks and GCs were not to be trusted whatsoever which they proved they aren't in 1963 and are still proving it today by demanding to be the sole rulers of the whole of Cyprus
so that they can have their ENOSIS.

ENOSIS is a dead donkey. No Cypriots want ENOSIS because the RoC is doing just find on it's own.

[Eric dayi]

... We too have made many mistakes, but with attitude like yours and Piratis you prove Denktash right everytime, ...

... VP this is the first time I hear you admitting mistakes on both sides. Actually I applaud this because it gives you more credibility....

..... why should I be forced to live in a GC state?

PS I have admitted our mistakes in past posts and even apologised but as you know people only read and remember what they want.

As Humanist says, such an admission is to be applauded. But I can't find these mistakes that have been confessed, only some sweeping statements and gesturing throwaway remarks.

Starting afresh ..... What are those mistakes the Turk-TCs admit to having made?
Mistakes that you (personal and collective) are not proud of and would rather not have carried out or have had happen.

How could those mistakes have been carried out differently? ... given the benefit of hindsight.

We have the freedom to make mistakes and by admitting to them they cease to be crimes.

Personal request: It would be really good if VP and the other Turk-TCs stated what they consider as the mistakes and their alternatives and eventually hopefully the GCs will chip in with our mistakes; and we can have a genuine exchange .... without the usual abusive [especially to me] hurlings, no matter how witty!

Our (TCs) biggest mistake was to trust the Greeks/GCs and sign an agreement with them believing that once Cyprus had it's independence the GCs and Greeks would not dare try to change the constitution and have a go at making their dream for ENSOIS come true even if meant genociding us TCs.


We should have known from the 50's that the Greeks and GCs were not to be trusted whatsoever which they proved they aren't in 1963 and are still proving it today by demanding to be the sole rulers of the whole of Cyprus
so that they can have their ENOSIS.

ENOSIS is a dead donkey. No Cypriots want ENOSIS because the RoC is doing just find on it's own.

Yeah right, and we TCs are to believe you this time and put our lives in your hands.

Not bloody likely mate.

[denizaksulu]

After Independence, a brother-in-law of mine from Kophinou, had a picture of President Makarios and Vice President Dr.F.Kucuk signing the Zurich Agreement. He was asked why did he have a phtograph of Makarios on the wall. He replied, "this is history in the making" , and added "from now on we will be living in peace".

Little did he know, that within a few years, that peace he had hoped for would be shattered. In 1967 he was facing the wild gangs and the National Guard, who attacked his village and where many were killed. This was not the peace he had hoped for.

Our first mistake was to trust Pres. Makarios not to try and alter the Constitution, to make it unucceptable to the TurkishCypriot population.

Tell your brother in law that peace can not come by you collaborating with the colonialists in the 50s and then imposing on the Cypriots a foreign made constidution that benefited you on the loss of the rest of Cypriots and served the interests of those foreigners who wrote it.

This holds true for today and the negotiations that go on now. You are again trying to blackmail us to accept your demands by illegally keeping 1/3rd of our country as a hostage. Do you think that if any agreement comes out of this it will bring peace? No, it will not. Thats not the way to bring peace.

To bring peace there is only one way:

Freedom to Cyprus from foreign troops, democracy, and equality among all citizens without racist discriminations. Nothing more and nothing less than what happens in every other peaceful democratic country. The recipe for peace is known. It is up to you if you decide to accept it, or if you insist on trying to gain by force on our loss.

My dear B-in L passed away so till I join him......


So according to you there will never be peace. Thats fine. A true partitionist you turned out to be. You should go live in the North and live happily ever after.

[Piratis]

After Independence, a brother-in-law of mine from Kophinou, had a picture of President Makarios and Vice President Dr.F.Kucuk signing the Zurich Agreement. He was asked why did he have a phtograph of Makarios on the wall. He replied, "this is history in the making" , and added "from now on we will be living in peace".

Little did he know, that within a few years, that peace he had hoped for would be shattered. In 1967 he was facing the wild gangs and the National Guard, who attacked his village and where many were killed. This was not the peace he had hoped for.

Our first mistake was to trust Pres. Makarios not to try and alter the Constitution, to make it unucceptable to the TurkishCypriot population.

Tell your brother in law that peace can not come by you collaborating with the colonialists in the 50s and then imposing on the Cypriots a foreign made constidution that benefited you on the loss of the rest of Cypriots and served the interests of those foreigners who wrote it.

This holds true for today and the negotiations that go on now. You are again trying to blackmail us to accept your demands by illegally keeping 1/3rd of our country as a hostage. Do you think that if any agreement comes out of this it will bring peace? No, it will not. Thats not the way to bring peace.

To bring peace there is only one way:

Freedom to Cyprus from foreign troops, democracy, and equality among all citizens without racist discriminations. Nothing more and nothing less than what happens in every other peaceful democratic country. The recipe for peace is known. It is up to you if you decide to accept it, or if you insist on trying to gain by force on our loss.

My dear B-in L passed away so till I join him......


So according to you there will never be peace. Thats fine. A true partitionist you turned out to be. You should go live in the North and live happily ever after.

It is up to you if there will be peace or not. I am simply trying to explain to you that by using military force to steal lands, violate human rights and force a nation on some sort of a capitulation agreement is not the way to achieve a long lasting peace.

[Oracle]

So far the only mistake we have any TCs admitting to is that they trusted us to honour the 1960 Agreement despite any rational reasons why it needed improving.

So your only mistake was to trust the GCs.

This from a nation that has denied causing countless genocides, atrocities, massacres, invasions, ethnic cleansing of other people's land.

What we are learning is that you have no perception of the evil you exude with your countless denials.

That is your message ... That you are above reproach!

In that case you have got to be the most untrustworthy nation on Earth .... and we are stuck trying to find a solution with you.

[umit07]

Things we did wrong huh.

1. The second phase of the peace opperation in my opinion was carried out too hastily.
2. Settlers were brought to the island the same year as the intervention.
3. Many TC's went on looting everything and thought it would continue , many TC's who weren't cunning enough to get anything had to emigrate off the island.