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Greek speaking Cypriots pls offer your suggestions

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby Viewpoint » Sun Apr 20, 2008 11:33 pm

humanist wrote:
You may have your property back as soon as you agree a comprehensive solution this is not a red line for us we support your right to your property where physically possible or financial compensation where not.

We are concerned and want to be able to say no on sensative issues that will effect the north state more negatively than the south, we do not want to live in a GC state run by GCs like south Cyprus is right now, this is a red line.

The EU have seen your real face and know that you are not European minded, everythign is not as it is on paper, you may have reached the required statistical measures but the GC mindset has not changed you still pursue GC policies and domination of the TC community just as you did in the past, trying to take away our community rights and force us into a minority status in a GC state.

_________________


and you may be freed from embargoes when Turkey leaves the Isand we return and you re-concile with the rest of Cyprus.

Cyprus is run by the GC's because you guys have separated yourselves and out cast yourselves from the mally recognised government of the Island

I suggets instead of wasting time pushing union with Turkey may be pout some effort in reconsiliation with the Govenrment of the EU state Cyprus


We tried that in 1963 to 1974 after being kicked out of government and forced into ghettos for our own safety, we aint going back there as far as the "RoC" is concerned its dead for us, any new solution will mean a new start no "RoC" no TRNC.
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Postby humanist » Sun Apr 20, 2008 11:42 pm

VP
We tried that in 1963 to 1974 after being kicked out of government and forced into ghettos for our own safety, we aint going back there as far as the "RoC" is concerned its dead for us, any new solution will mean a new start no "RoC" no TRNC.



VP .... no one is arguing this point. Of course there will be no RoC and No trnc. I don't think people are caught up on that issue.
Last edited by humanist on Sun Apr 20, 2008 11:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Viewpoint » Sun Apr 20, 2008 11:43 pm

humanist wrote:VP
One country 2 equal communities under a BBF with political equality, simple really.


yeah well why is your leader and his masters stalling then. Gee I wish you guys will wake up and realise that you are your own gaol keepers. Wouldn't political equality assume one person one vote?????

Not sure if you are interested in this but I'll say it any way. We have just recenty had a change of government from afascist liberal one to a labour government.

This weekend the prime Minister invited 1000 volunteers to converge to Canberra to discuss ideas and future direction of the country. The liberals called it a farse and gave lots of flack to the Prime Minister for holding this day.

It was al televised andI got bit here and there. I was so proud to be a wog Australian more than ever to hear people sharing their goals and aspirations and expressing how much they felt part of their country.

The most inspiring thing I heard was the Prime Ministers second in charge speech and she said by 2020 whether your name is Smith or Ho you will have the opportunity and the challenge to run the country. That VP is political equality. The great thing about this great country that I live in is that if I chose to do so I could become the next President because finally we are having a Republic. (Go right ahead trash it in your attempt to crash me but that is the stark reality - none of the crap you are promoting about separation, and exclussion based on language or religion or minority status).


Let me ask you do you think the electorate in Australia and the GC electorate are of the same maturity and open mindedness, please be totally honest. The GC electorate would rather vote for a brainless GC than a TC einstein, Do try to undertsnad the risk you would be forcing me into, you would not be faced with this problem as you woudl have the 805 in your corner from day 1.
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Postby humanist » Sun Apr 20, 2008 11:48 pm

okay perhaps I can say that most Cypriots and sadly even those my age will not vote for a TC einstein. However what I am saying here is that when we formulate a United Cyprus for Cypriots that would be possible. Remember that I can argue that I am a minority in Australia and remain there or I can say I am Australian and move on with what thta means and all the benefits that I can access and opportuntiites I can particiapte in.
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Postby boomerang » Sun Apr 20, 2008 11:53 pm

Viewpoint wrote:
humanist wrote:VP
One country 2 equal communities under a BBF with political equality, simple really.


yeah well why is your leader and his masters stalling then. Gee I wish you guys will wake up and realise that you are your own gaol keepers. Wouldn't political equality assume one person one vote?????

Not sure if you are interested in this but I'll say it any way. We have just recenty had a change of government from afascist liberal one to a labour government.

This weekend the prime Minister invited 1000 volunteers to converge to Canberra to discuss ideas and future direction of the country. The liberals called it a farse and gave lots of flack to the Prime Minister for holding this day.

It was al televised andI got bit here and there. I was so proud to be a wog Australian more than ever to hear people sharing their goals and aspirations and expressing how much they felt part of their country.

The most inspiring thing I heard was the Prime Ministers second in charge speech and she said by 2020 whether your name is Smith or Ho you will have the opportunity and the challenge to run the country. That VP is political equality. The great thing about this great country that I live in is that if I chose to do so I could become the next President because finally we are having a Republic. (Go right ahead trash it in your attempt to crash me but that is the stark reality - none of the crap you are promoting about separation, and exclussion based on language or religion or minority status).


Let me ask you do you think the electorate in Australia and the GC electorate are of the same maturity and open mindedness, please be totally honest. The GC electorate would rather vote for a brainless GC than a TC einstein, Do try to undertsnad the risk you would be forcing me into, you would not be faced with this problem as you woudl have the 805 in your corner from day 1.


If the gc president is not good for you what makes you so sure he will be good for the gcs?

So how do you then explain the fascist politics played out in "turkey=fascist state" today?
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Postby Viewpoint » Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:08 am

humanist wrote:okay perhaps I can say that most Cypriots and sadly even those my age will not vote for a TC einstein. However what I am saying here is that when we formulate a United Cyprus for Cypriots that would be possible. Remember that I can argue that I am a minority in Australia and remain there or I can say I am Australian and move on with what thta means and all the benefits that I can access and opportuntiites I can particiapte in.


Look at it from this angle if 80% of the Australian population were dead against a black president do you think they would vote for one? This is the handicap you are asking TCs to accept, is this fair, are you not putting us in danger?
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Postby repulsewarrior » Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:26 am

only forty years ago, blackmen hung from trees...can you imagine that in the USA today?

people change themselves, and the world has changed.

what is needed is a good Constitution, which is clear, simple, and easy to understand, based on Universal Principals, aimed at their betterment. And there must be agreement for reciprocal land settlement, which allows all Cypriots who were or will be displaced to choose whether to settle or return as persons in some cases, and as individuals in all others. For ourselves we need a Retribution and answers for the Abused.

seriously, if I can't get what i want, which OP best describes, and you can't get what you want, things basically just as they are, what is the alternative, that is Just and satisficing....and in my proposal, if the enclaves of the south remain unsettled by Turkish Cypriots, as you predict, they will remain under the Jurisdiction of the a National Assembly that is Turcophone and exploited I hope respectfully for their own sustenance. similarly if the enclaves in the north grow prosperous with their own representation through a National Assembly, there will be no harm to the Jurisdiction of the territories which surround them. nothing prevents free movement and the right to free association, and all citizens will be equal as individuals and their individual rights, but you can choose to be living as a majority or a minority, and you are not restricted to one service anywhere on the island. There is a State that is Sovereign above this which represents the body of its citizenship as the defender of their Individual Rights, which charters a territory bi zonally to be serviced through two National Assemblies having for a majority as Persons the opportunity to sustain their society in a manner where they can demonstrate an inclusiveness to others.

this is 'one voice' and 'our way' in demonstrating an identity as a people who have humility, who have charity as a grace, who have respect for our distinctions and who share in their desire for one cause: the betterment of the Human Condition. and it is in line with the evolution of an association which has been built over 350 years, as cooperators with communities that can sustain themselves independantly and because they are as Cypriots have always been, socialised to a high degree, not the last fifty years it seems in Cyprus, where time has been frozen by keeping us isolated from each other, where people are judged by who they are, rather than on what they do.

you cannot call blacks less than Human now, it is not acceptable to hate Turks vilely even if you are Greek, or (some) Turcophones, because of the history of the Ottomans, and you cannot continue to fear Cypriots, because they represent a majority who are Grecophone because they speak and live, as Greeks.

This much, i hope you will agree with me; Cyprus is an island. its Heritance needs our attention and our stewardship, or we will be merely dividing up its wealth.

VP, i have a great deal of sympathy for you, as you know. i have called you wiley as a crow, and i know that given a good reason you would embrace a change as your own. please consider my proposal again. other than what is and what you want, where does this proposal fit in to a future beyond this impasse? you have posted comments, and questions, and i want more because it helps me and i believe that none of us are that far apart.

just humour me and imagine yourself as a PR person from New York hired to pitch this idea.
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Postby humanist » Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:49 pm

VP I believe we are transgressing from the topic because the issues in Australia are different to the issue in Cyprus. What I can say is that I feel 100% sure that in 2008 Cyprus an EU state, there will be nothing but fairness and equality amongst all Cypriots regardless of their linguistic and religious background. A president of Cyprus will hold true to that. I am 100% sure. However, I can appreciate TC concerns. Lets hope the committees will look at this issue.
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Postby Paphitis » Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:21 pm

humanist wrote:VP
One country 2 equal communities under a BBF with political equality, simple really.


yeah well why is your leader and his masters stalling then. Gee I wish you guys will wake up and realise that you are your own gaol keepers. Wouldn't political equality assume one person one vote?????

Not sure if you are interested in this but I'll say it any way. We have just recenty had a change of government from afascist liberal one to a labour government.

This weekend the prime Minister invited 1000 volunteers to converge to Canberra to discuss ideas and future direction of the country. The liberals called it a farse and gave lots of flack to the Prime Minister for holding this day.

It was al televised andI got bit here and there. I was so proud to be a wog Australian more than ever to hear people sharing their goals and aspirations and expressing how much they felt part of their country.

The most inspiring thing I heard was the Prime Ministers second in charge speech and she said by 2020 whether your name is Smith or Ho you will have the opportunity and the challenge to run the country. That VP is political equality. The great thing about this great country that I live in is that if I chose to do so I could become the next President because finally we are having a Republic. (Go right ahead trash it in your attempt to crash me but that is the stark reality - none of the crap you are promoting about separation, and exclussion based on language or religion or minority status).


A publicity stunt that achieved very little or nothing at all! The biggest thing that came out of this 2020 summit was the republican issue and taxation.

And they did not discuss WATER RESOURCES! Talk about priorities.

At least people were able to have their say. :wink:
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Postby Viewpoint » Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:38 pm

humanist wrote:VP I believe we are transgressing from the topic because the issues in Australia are different to the issue in Cyprus. What I can say is that I feel 100% sure that in 2008 Cyprus an EU state, there will be nothing but fairness and equality amongst all Cypriots regardless of their linguistic and religious background. A president of Cyprus will hold true to that. I am 100% sure. However, I can appreciate TC concerns. Lets hope the committees will look at this issue.



So what you are saying is trust us and take a leap of faith into a black hole with no safety net. Well excuse me if Im suspiscious of your intentions as I do not want to be a minority in a GC state, Id rather take my chance with Turkey and as the TRNC withour recognition than capitulate to GC dominance. There has to be a balance that will allow us to live as we are today peacefully without one side dominating the other or forcing them into a situaiton they do not want. Thats why safeguars are vital for any form of a solution otherwise people will reject any thing out forward.
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