Cyprus-Forum.com

[Get Real!]

In the summer of 1570, the Turks struck again, but this time with a full-scale invasion rather than a raid. About 60,000 troops, including cavalry and artillery, under the command of Lala Mustafa Pasha landed unopposed near Limassol on July 2, 1570, and laid siege to Nicosia. In an orgy of victory on the day that the city fell--September 9, 1570--20,000 Nicosians were put to death, and every church, public building, and palace was looted.

(1) The source you put here is a publication of a policy-making institution. It is not neutral.

Ok, here’s a Turkish Cypriot website quoting the same thing…

http://www.rivierahotel-northcyprus.com ... ical06.htm

Nobody in the world is disagreeing over the Ottoman Empire's role on Cyprus Murataga, so quit wasting your time…

[miltiades]

May you can add that you are in the EU but still support inhumane embargoes on "other Cypriots" becuase you want to impose your will on them, exposing them to becoming a minoirty in a GC state run by GCs, not very European minded. You also apologise for forcing a divided country into the EU with all its problems and then expecting the EU to come up with a magical solution in the GCs favor.

Here you go again VP , MINORITIES !! What on earth are you suggesting the ROC government does , kill a few hundred thousands of G/Cs or perhaps force them to emigrate so that the population of Cyprus becomes numerically equal ?
What is this imposition of will entail , one man one vote maybe ?

[Viewpoint]

May you can add that you are in the EU but still support inhumane embargoes on "other Cypriots" becuase you want to impose your will on them, exposing them to becoming a minoirty in a GC state run by GCs, not very European minded. You also apologise for forcing a divided country into the EU with all its problems and then expecting the EU to come up with a magical solution in the GCs favor.

Here you go again VP , MINORITIES !! What on earth are you suggesting the ROC government does , kill a few hundred thousands of G/Cs or perhaps force them to emigrate so that the population of Cyprus becomes numerically equal ?
What is this imposition of will entail , one man one vote maybe ?

One country 2 equal communities under a BBF with political equality, simple really.

[Viewpoint]

VP the embargoes are there because you have taken homes lands and villages that do not belong to you. The minute you give those back the embargoes will be lifted. The rest is perhaps your paranoia becoming exposed. None theless it is your point of view and your entitled to have it. However, I am not taking your suggestion on board.

I am making no apologies for Cyprus being inducted into the EU, The EU should have thought of this before it acted.

There is only one solution VP you reclaim your properties wherever they are on the Island and afford all those refugees whose properties you are exploiting every day to do the same.

You may have your property back as soon as you agree a comprehensive solution this is not a red line for us we support your right to your property where physically possible or financial compensation where not.

We are concerned and want to be able to say no on sensative issues that will effect the north state more negatively than the south, we do not want to live in a GC state run by GCs like south Cyprus is right now, this is a red line.

The EU have seen your real face and know that you are not European minded, everythign is not as it is on paper, you may have reached the required statistical measures but the GC mindset has not changed you still pursue GC policies and domination of the TC community just as you did in the past, trying to take away our community rights and force us into a minority status in a GC state.

[boomerang]

May you can add that you are in the EU but still support inhumane embargoes on "other Cypriots" becuase you want to impose your will on them, exposing them to becoming a minoirty in a GC state run by GCs, not very European minded. You also apologise for forcing a divided country into the EU with all its problems and then expecting the EU to come up with a magical solution in the GCs favor.

Here you go again VP , MINORITIES !! What on earth are you suggesting the ROC government does , kill a few hundred thousands of G/Cs or perhaps force them to emigrate so that the population of Cyprus becomes numerically equal ?
What is this imposition of will entail , one man one vote maybe ?

One country 2 equal communities under a BBF with political equality, simple really.

One man, one vote, like every other civilised democratic country in the EU and the world...can't get simpler than that now can it

[Viewpoint]

May you can add that you are in the EU but still support inhumane embargoes on "other Cypriots" becuase you want to impose your will on them, exposing them to becoming a minoirty in a GC state run by GCs, not very European minded. You also apologise for forcing a divided country into the EU with all its problems and then expecting the EU to come up with a magical solution in the GCs favor.

Here you go again VP , MINORITIES !! What on earth are you suggesting the ROC government does , kill a few hundred thousands of G/Cs or perhaps force them to emigrate so that the population of Cyprus becomes numerically equal ?
What is this imposition of will entail , one man one vote maybe ?

One country 2 equal communities under a BBF with political equality, simple really.

One man, one vote, like every other civilised democratic country in the EU and the world...can't get simpler than that now can it

Sorry not with GCs cant be trusted to stick to agreements, unless you accept we can veto on pre determined sensative issues that will effect more negatively one community than the other.

[boomerang]

May you can add that you are in the EU but still support inhumane embargoes on "other Cypriots" becuase you want to impose your will on them, exposing them to becoming a minoirty in a GC state run by GCs, not very European minded. You also apologise for forcing a divided country into the EU with all its problems and then expecting the EU to come up with a magical solution in the GCs favor.

Here you go again VP , MINORITIES !! What on earth are you suggesting the ROC government does , kill a few hundred thousands of G/Cs or perhaps force them to emigrate so that the population of Cyprus becomes numerically equal ?
What is this imposition of will entail , one man one vote maybe ?

One country 2 equal communities under a BBF with political equality, simple really.

One man, one vote, like every other civilised democratic country in the EU and the world...can't get simpler than that now can it

Sorry not with GCs, unless you accept we can veto on pre determined sensative issues that will effect more negatively one community more than the other.

Take a couple of laxettes and if the problem persists call me tomorrow...

[humanist]

You may have your property back as soon as you agree a comprehensive solution this is not a red line for us we support your right to your property where physically possible or financial compensation where not.

We are concerned and want to be able to say no on sensative issues that will effect the north state more negatively than the south, we do not want to live in a GC state run by GCs like south Cyprus is right now, this is a red line.

The EU have seen your real face and know that you are not European minded, everythign is not as it is on paper, you may have reached the required statistical measures but the GC mindset has not changed you still pursue GC policies and domination of the TC community just as you did in the past, trying to take away our community rights and force us into a minority status in a GC state.

_________________

and you may be freed from embargoes when Turkey leaves the Isand we return and you re-concile with the rest of Cyprus.

Cyprus is run by the GC's because you guys have separated yourselves and out cast yourselves from the mally recognised government of the Island

I suggets instead of wasting time pushing union with Turkey may be pout some effort in reconsiliation with the Govenrment of the EU state Cyprus

[CopperLine]

...and raped under age girls ...

Piratis,
What are you suggesting ? That there is an acceptable age for rape ?

[Piratis]

Winners? We sure did not feel like winners when we were getting massacred into the enclaves that made up around 5% of the island and living inside those enclaves without running water under an embargo that included even medicine for infants.

"massacred" is a word that can be used for the murder of 1000s of Cypriots at a time by the Turks.

But that never happened beside in your imagination.

The Turks killed 1000s of Cypriots and raped under age girls during their invasion in 1974. But that was not the first time they did this. Here is one example where they murdered not just 1000s but 10s of thousands:

In the summer of 1570, the Turks struck again, but this time with a full-scale invasion rather than a raid. About 60,000 troops, including cavalry and artillery, under the command of Lala Mustafa Pasha landed unopposed near Limassol on July 2, 1570, and laid siege to Nicosia. In an orgy of victory on the day that the city fell--September 9, 1570--20,000 Nicosians were put to death, and every church, public building, and palace was looted.

(1) The source you put here is a publication of a policy-making institution. It is not neutral.

(2) The essay (and it is structured and written essentially as nothing else but that) bears no citation with sufficient detail to identify the referenced item uniquely. There is a bibliography at the end however citation is not given within the structure as to the specific source. We do not know if the authors (even given that they are neutral) have based there information on their personal research (no citation even at this) or the findings of one of the references in the bibliography, which in that case opens a can of worms since the references it cites needs to be examined carefully. For example, the source for the phrase could have well been taken from :

Cyprus: The Tragedy and the Challenge. Washington: American Hellenic Institute, 1975.

which is one of the references in the bibliography.

(3) Even if we were to neglect these outstanding challenges facing this controversial piece of cropped writing you put here, the careful reader will observe it is mentioned that it reads “Nicosians were put to death”. It is a well-documented fact that Cyprus was Venetian land and the Ottomans fought the Venetians and their supporters (which were not necessarily the GCs). Unless you prove that Nicosia comprised of GCs alone and the ones killed were only innocent GCs that didn’t fight with the Venetians even this controversial document will bear no reinforcement to your argument.

Following is a part from The Rise and Fall of the Cyprus Republic by Kyriacos C. Markides (Yale University Press) which is a book that heavily favors the GC side in the Cyprus conflict within the overall context. This book is also given in the list of the bibliography of the political institution you referenced:

“The Turkish Cypriot conquest can be thought of as a turning point in the evolution of Cypriot society. Its effects were tantamount to a true revolution, but a revolution imposed from the outside. The conquest brought about three fundamental changes in the Cypriot social structure whose effects are still deeply felt: (1) the destruction of European feudalism (mainly by Franks and Venetians) (2) the restoration of the Greek Orthodox church to its former position of dominance, and (3) the settlement on Cyprus of a sizable Turkish minority.

The Turks once they conquered Cyprus, either killed or expelled the European nobles. The feudal system was abolished and land was distributed to the former serfs, who were Orthodox Christians, and to the newly arrived Muslim settlers. The Turkish conquest, furthermore, created ethnic heterogeneity. Turkish migrants settled in Cyprus, and gradually a sizeable Turkish community was formed, eventually composing 18 percent of the total population.

Last, and the most significant, the Turkish conquest restored the Greek Orthodox church to its former princely status and endowed it with unprecedented secular and spiritual powers. The authority vacuum created by the abolition of the aristocratic order was filled by the church, which became the most central institution in Greek Cypriot society. The Turks recognized only Orthodoxy as the official non-Muslim religion of the island, and they persecuted the Catholics. In short, the Turks reversed the situation that existed under feudalism. In addition, the sultan vested the church with special administrative privileges, such as collecting state taxes and officially representing the Orthodox Greek s in Istanbul. The archbishop was elevated to the status of Ethnarc, national leader or political spokesman for the Greek population. Consequently, the church of Cyprus became under Turkish rule the most authoritative and powerful institution on the island. It has been said that during the eighteenth century the archbishop’s political authority was almost equal, if not superior, t that of the Turkish Governor (Ref. below)”

Claude D. Cobham, Exerpta Cypria (Cambridge, Eng.: Cambridge University Press, 1908), pp. 458-59

In that conflict which you started in 1958, GCs and TCs lost an about equal amount of people, a few 100s each.

We did not start the conflict, you did when you revolted via EOKA to hand us and anything we owned on this island to Greece in the middle of the 20th century. You lost.

We revolted as it was our right to revolt against foreign colonialists so the Greek island of Cyprus would be liberated like it happened to many other Greek islands and territories before. I guess it was fine for you when you were killing and oppressing us and you forced Cyprus to be part of your empire, but strangely it was not fine for Cyprus to be part of a free Greek state which is what the Cypriots themselves wanted!

No, Cypriots themselves did not want to be a part of Greece, the GC COMMUNITY did. The TCs rightfully resisted to be handed over to Greece along with their land and property and at the end the TCs have won. Thanks to the resistance of the TCs to your agenda, an independent Cyprus state was born.

And you are the ones who attacked us and started the conflict in 1958, and there is no doubt about this:?

Wrong again. EOKA had already murdered TCs employed as policeman before this.

For our own island we can want whatever we want and we will not ask any foreigners about it. ?

It is not soleley your island, so your demands alone do not determine what is to happen to the island. You will ask me and unless I approve it you will not have it - see your ENOSIS conquest for details.

We are already united with Greece within EU.

You are as united with Greece as Bulgaria is united with England within the EU. That is not ENOSIS.

After centuries of being under foreign rule we manage to liberate a part of our island.

After centuries of being under foreign rule you chose to go under another one, namely Greece, as opposed to chosing to live in an independent Cyprus with us. And when we forced you into that independent state, you destroyed it at the first opportunity you had.

The remaining part is still under illegal foreign occupation, but the war you started against us to take our lands is not ever yet.

We the TCs live in the remaining part so it is not under any occupation. Due to your military aggression that started in 1963, we need additional reinforcements for our security here. Thankfully, Turkey has agreed to provide this to us.

It will be over when the whole of Cyprus is liberated.

Which is when you decide or are forced to put down your criminal agenda of trying to extend your soverrignity over us.

Marataga as always discards all the facts which do not suit him.

The only reason I post to you from that source is because it is made by your friends the Americans. Personally I don't need any outsider to teach me the history of our island. The father of my grandfather was alive during the Ottoman rule. We know very very well how you treated us, so don't try to hide the obvious fact that Turks came to Cyprus for a sole purpose: To enslave Cypriots and exploit Cypriots and their island.

It is funny how I post to you videos that show the conflict which you started in 1958 and yet you insist that the conflict started in 1963! You can choose to be blind, but do you really expect everybody else to be as well?

As far as your "sovereignty" and the claim that the north Cyprus is not under illegal occupation, do you really want me to post to you the UN resolutions that demand the respect of the sovergnity of Republic of Cyprus and declare your pseudo state as legally invalid?

If you want, tell me.