Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

Winners? We sure did not feel like winners when we were getting massacred into the enclaves that made up around 5% of the island and living inside those enclaves without running water under an embargo that included even medicine for infants.

"massacred" is a word that can be used for the murder of 1000s of Cypriots at a time by the Turks.

But that never happened beside in your imagination.

The Turks killed 1000s of Cypriots and raped under age girls during their invasion in 1974. But that was not the first time they did this. Here is one example where they murdered not just 1000s but 10s of thousands:

In the summer of 1570, the Turks struck again, but this time with a full-scale invasion rather than a raid. About 60,000 troops, including cavalry and artillery, under the command of Lala Mustafa Pasha landed unopposed near Limassol on July 2, 1570, and laid siege to Nicosia. In an orgy of victory on the day that the city fell--September 9, 1570--20,000 Nicosians were put to death, and every church, public building, and palace was looted.

In that conflict which you started in 1958, GCs and TCs lost an about equal amount of people, a few 100s each.

We did not start the conflict, you did when you revolted via EOKA to hand us and anything we owned on this island to Greece in the middle of the 20th century. You lost.

We revolted as it was our right to revolt against foreign colonialists so the Greek island of Cyprus would be liberated like it happened to many other Greek islands and territories before. I guess it was fine for you when you were killing and oppressing us and you forced Cyprus to be part of your empire, but strangely it was not fine for Cyprus to be part of a free Greek state which is what the Cypriots themselves wanted!

And you are the ones who attacked us and started the conflict in 1958, and there is no doubt about this:

So what did you expect when you started the war against us in 1958? That you will only kill us, while you will have no losses at all?

Actually you were the one with an agenda to annex this island to Greece. We made sure that you can not even dare to want ENOSIS today - something we will always feel proud about. You should thank us.

For our own island we can want whatever we want and we will not ask any foreigners about it. We are already united with Greece within EU. After centuries of being under foreign rule we manage to liberate a part of our island. The remaining part is still under illegal foreign occupation, but the war you started against us to take our lands is not ever yet. It will be over when the whole of Cyprus is liberated.

[Get Real!]

I guess I should also add this just to clear things up in your confused old mind:

mas·sa·cre (ms-kr)
n.
1. The act or an instance of killing a large number of humans indiscriminately and cruelly.

Sounds just about right doesn't it?

Shah, it's by no accident that Turkey chose the codename "Attila 74" for her military invasion AND subsequent ETHNIC CLEANSING of the northern territory of Cyprus in July 1974; Attila the Hun is one of the top 10 infamous murderers in the history of mankind… think about it.

[Piratis]

Winners? We sure did not feel like winners when we were getting massacred into the enclaves that made up around 5% of the island and living inside those enclaves without running water under an embargo that included even medicine for infants.

"massacred" is a word that can be used for the murder of 1000s of Cypriots at a time by the Turks.

In that conflict which you started in 1958, GCs and TCs lost an about equal amount of people, a few 100s each.

So what did you expect when you started the war against us in 1958? That you will only kill us, while you will have no losses at all?

Yet again Piratis is making up new "concepts" through numbers, just like he self declares himself to be "indigenous" to Cyprus through numbers, he now re-defines the meaning of the word "massacre" through numbers that suit him. Not to mention his genius idea of "hijacking democracy" and giving hegemonic positions to themselves over us in order to finalise his ancient quest to rule the island.

Way to go Piratis, keep this up for another century and you might indeed rule the island and even come up with your own language

Let me just also remind you that what you did in Cyprus was INDEED a massacre (regardless of the numbers) and disgrace for humanity, the world might still not know the extent of it but they will eventually find out.

Thats a classic case of the pot calling the kettle black. When you have killed 1000s and 10s of thousands of Cypriots at a time, and then you come to accuse Cypriots of "massacres" because in one of the conflicts which you started against us you also had some losses which were about the same as we did.

[shahmaran]

Winners? We sure did not feel like winners when we were getting massacred into the enclaves that made up around 5% of the island and living inside those enclaves without running water under an embargo that included even medicine for infants.

"massacred" is a word that can be used for the murder of 1000s of Cypriots at a time by the Turks.

In that conflict which you started in 1958, GCs and TCs lost an about equal amount of people, a few 100s each.

So what did you expect when you started the war against us in 1958? That you will only kill us, while you will have no losses at all?

Yet again Piratis is making up new "concepts" through numbers, just like he self declares himself to be "indigenous" to Cyprus through numbers, he now re-defines the meaning of the word "massacre" through numbers that suit him. Not to mention his genius idea of "hijacking democracy" and giving hegemonic positions to themselves over us in order to finalise his ancient quest to rule the island.

Way to go Piratis, keep this up for another century and you might indeed rule the island and even come up with your own language

Let me just also remind you that what you did in Cyprus was INDEED a massacre (regardless of the numbers) and disgrace for humanity, the world might still not know the extent of it but they will eventually find out.

Thats a classic case of the pot calling the kettle black. When you have killed 1000s and 10s of thousands of Cypriots at a time, and then you come to accuse Cypriots of "massacres" because in one of the conflicts which you started against us you also had some losses which were about the same as we did.

Yeah the difference is i blame you as GC's and you blame us TC's for what the Turks did, you catching my drift?

You are also becoming the master of contradictions, when it suits you we are all Cypriots and when you want to do the blame game you are Cypriots and we are Turks, make up your mind!

[Piratis]

I guess I should also add this just to clear things up in your confused old mind:

mas·sa·cre (ms-kr)
n.
1. The act or an instance of killing a large number of humans indiscriminately and cruelly.

Sounds just about right doesn't it?

Shah, it's by no accident that Turkey chose the codename "Attila 74" for her military invasion AND subsequent ETHNIC CLEANSING of the northern territory of Cyprus in July 1974; Attila the Hun is one of the top 10 infamous murderers in the history of mankind… think about it.

Apparently for them "massacre" is when some 100s of TCs get killed in a conflict which they started and where they have killed an equal amount of GCs. Strangely the 100s of GCs that they killed in that same conflict is not a massacre, the 1000s of GCs they killed in 1974 is not, and the 10s of thousands of Cypriots they killed when they first invaded against is not.

Not even the killing of 1.5 million Armenians is a massacre.

So as Shah says it is not about numbers. The Turks can kill 100s, 1000s, 10s of thousands or even millions of people, and thats fine. But if the Turks lose a few 100s of people, even when this happens in a war which they started, suddenly this amounts to massacre, genocide and annihilation (which of course gives the right to the so "nice" Turks to go kill 1000s and 10s of thousands of innocent people, which strangely will not be a massacre)

[shahmaran]

I guess I should also add this just to clear things up in your confused old mind:

mas·sa·cre (ms-kr)
n.
1. The act or an instance of killing a large number of humans indiscriminately and cruelly.

Sounds just about right doesn't it?

Shah, it's by no accident that Turkey chose the codename "Attila 74" for her military invasion AND subsequent ETHNIC CLEANSING of the northern territory of Cyprus in July 1974; Attila the Hun is one of the top 10 infamous murderers in the history of mankind… think about it.

Apparently for them "massacre" is when some 100s of TCs get killed in a conflict which they started and where they have killed an equal amount of GCs. Strangely the 100s of GCs that they killed in that same conflict is not a massacre, the 1000s of GCs they killed in 1974 is not, and the 10s of thousands of Cypriots they killed when they first invaded against is not.

Not even the killing of 1.5 million Armenians is a massacre.

So as Shah says it is not about numbers. The Turks can kill 100s, 1000s, 10s of thousands or even millions of people, and thats fine. But if the Turks lose a few 100s of people, even when this happens in a war which they started, suddenly this amounts to massacre, genocide and annihilation (which of course gives the right to the so "nice" Turks to go kill 1000s and 10s of thousands of innocent people, which strangely will not be a massacre)

No, its not what i say its what the dictionary says, you want to reshape the meaning of "massacre" and stick it on us, I'm just pointing out that fact that you also have a big one stuck on your forehead!!

I never said what happened to you was not a massacre but you do hold a large part of the blame regarding to what happened to BOTH of US!

So stop making up crap and take the blame like a man rather than squealing like a little girl about words you obviously not know the meaning off, or shall I say, you rather ignore.

[Piratis]

Winners? We sure did not feel like winners when we were getting massacred into the enclaves that made up around 5% of the island and living inside those enclaves without running water under an embargo that included even medicine for infants.

"massacred" is a word that can be used for the murder of 1000s of Cypriots at a time by the Turks.

In that conflict which you started in 1958, GCs and TCs lost an about equal amount of people, a few 100s each.

So what did you expect when you started the war against us in 1958? That you will only kill us, while you will have no losses at all?

Yet again Piratis is making up new "concepts" through numbers, just like he self declares himself to be "indigenous" to Cyprus through numbers, he now re-defines the meaning of the word "massacre" through numbers that suit him. Not to mention his genius idea of "hijacking democracy" and giving hegemonic positions to themselves over us in order to finalise his ancient quest to rule the island.

Way to go Piratis, keep this up for another century and you might indeed rule the island and even come up with your own language

Let me just also remind you that what you did in Cyprus was INDEED a massacre (regardless of the numbers) and disgrace for humanity, the world might still not know the extent of it but they will eventually find out.

Thats a classic case of the pot calling the kettle black. When you have killed 1000s and 10s of thousands of Cypriots at a time, and then you come to accuse Cypriots of "massacres" because in one of the conflicts which you started against us you also had some losses which were about the same as we did.

Yeah the difference is i blame you as GC's and you blame us TC's for what the Turks did, you catching my drift?

You are also becoming the master of contradictions, when it suits you we are all Cypriots and when you want to do the blame game you are Cypriots and we are Turks, make up your mind!

In 1958 and the rest of the inter communal conflict it is the TCs who did the crimes against us. In 1974 many of the crimes against us where again committed by the TCs. And today who is supporting our ethnic cleansing from our lands? Isn't TCs also (along with Turkey)?

As far as the crimes before that, then I have asked the question many times but never got an answer. When did TCs appear to Cyprus? Are the ancestors of TCs those invadors who invaded Cyprus and killed 10s of thousands of Cypriots and then oppressed us for 3 centuries? Or the TC minority was created 100 years ago after Cyprus became a British colony?

[Piratis]

I guess I should also add this just to clear things up in your confused old mind:

mas·sa·cre (ms-kr)
n.
1. The act or an instance of killing a large number of humans indiscriminately and cruelly.

Sounds just about right doesn't it?

Shah, it's by no accident that Turkey chose the codename "Attila 74" for her military invasion AND subsequent ETHNIC CLEANSING of the northern territory of Cyprus in July 1974; Attila the Hun is one of the top 10 infamous murderers in the history of mankind… think about it.

Apparently for them "massacre" is when some 100s of TCs get killed in a conflict which they started and where they have killed an equal amount of GCs. Strangely the 100s of GCs that they killed in that same conflict is not a massacre, the 1000s of GCs they killed in 1974 is not, and the 10s of thousands of Cypriots they killed when they first invaded against is not.

Not even the killing of 1.5 million Armenians is a massacre.

So as Shah says it is not about numbers. The Turks can kill 100s, 1000s, 10s of thousands or even millions of people, and thats fine. But if the Turks lose a few 100s of people, even when this happens in a war which they started, suddenly this amounts to massacre, genocide and annihilation (which of course gives the right to the so "nice" Turks to go kill 1000s and 10s of thousands of innocent people, which strangely will not be a massacre)

No, its not what i say its what the dictionary says, you want to reshape the meaning of "massacre" and stick it on us, I'm just pointing out that fact that you also have a big one stuck on your forehead!!

I never said what happened to you was not a massacre but you do hold a large part of the blame regarding to what happened to BOTH of US!

So stop making up crap and take the blame like a man rather than squealing like a little girl about words you obviously not know the meaning off, or shall I say, you rather ignore.

So the one who starts the wars, invades the lands of another, kills 1000s and 10s of thousands of people has the same share of responsibility as the one who is invaded and kills a few 100s?

Cypriots are not angels, nobody is. But unlike many others the Cypriots never went out of their island to harm anybody, it is others who kept invading us. So it is ridiculous to blame Cypriots because they fought for their freedom and self-determination on their own island. Yes, if you attack Cypriots and you start a conflict with the aim to stop Cypriots from having their freedom, then yes you will have losses as well. What did you expect? That you can attack another and only that other to have losses?

[Get Real!]

To Whom It May Concern

Shouldn’t your letter be more formal like...

“Honorable Ambassador Dr. Rolf Kaiser,…”

http://www.nikosia.diplo.de/Vertretung/ ... seite.html

[Murataga]

Winners? We sure did not feel like winners when we were getting massacred into the enclaves that made up around 5% of the island and living inside those enclaves without running water under an embargo that included even medicine for infants.

"massacred" is a word that can be used for the murder of 1000s of Cypriots at a time by the Turks.

But that never happened beside in your imagination.

The Turks killed 1000s of Cypriots and raped under age girls during their invasion in 1974. But that was not the first time they did this. Here is one example where they murdered not just 1000s but 10s of thousands:

In the summer of 1570, the Turks struck again, but this time with a full-scale invasion rather than a raid. About 60,000 troops, including cavalry and artillery, under the command of Lala Mustafa Pasha landed unopposed near Limassol on July 2, 1570, and laid siege to Nicosia. In an orgy of victory on the day that the city fell--September 9, 1570--20,000 Nicosians were put to death, and every church, public building, and palace was looted.

(1) The source you put here is a publication of a policy-making institution. It is not neutral.

(2) The essay (and it is structured and written essentially as nothing else but that) bears no citation with sufficient detail to identify the referenced item uniquely. There is a bibliography at the end however citation is not given within the structure as to the specific source. We do not know if the authors (even given that they are neutral) have based there information on their personal research (no citation even at this) or the findings of one of the references in the bibliography, which in that case opens a can of worms since the references it cites needs to be examined carefully. For example, the source for the phrase could have well been taken from :

Cyprus: The Tragedy and the Challenge. Washington: American Hellenic Institute, 1975.

which is one of the references in the bibliography.

(3) Even if we were to neglect these outstanding challenges facing this controversial piece of cropped writing you put here, the careful reader will observe it is mentioned that it reads “Nicosians were put to death”. It is a well-documented fact that Cyprus was Venetian land and the Ottomans fought the Venetians and their supporters (which were not necessarily the GCs). Unless you prove that Nicosia comprised of GCs alone and the ones killed were only innocent GCs that didn’t fight with the Venetians even this controversial document will bear no reinforcement to your argument.

Following is a part from The Rise and Fall of the Cyprus Republic by Kyriacos C. Markides (Yale University Press) which is a book that heavily favors the GC side in the Cyprus conflict within the overall context. This book is also given in the list of the bibliography of the political institution you referenced:

“The Turkish Cypriot conquest can be thought of as a turning point in the evolution of Cypriot society. Its effects were tantamount to a true revolution, but a revolution imposed from the outside. The conquest brought about three fundamental changes in the Cypriot social structure whose effects are still deeply felt: (1) the destruction of European feudalism (mainly by Franks and Venetians) (2) the restoration of the Greek Orthodox church to its former position of dominance, and (3) the settlement on Cyprus of a sizable Turkish minority.

The Turks once they conquered Cyprus, either killed or expelled the European nobles. The feudal system was abolished and land was distributed to the former serfs, who were Orthodox Christians, and to the newly arrived Muslim settlers. The Turkish conquest, furthermore, created ethnic heterogeneity. Turkish migrants settled in Cyprus, and gradually a sizeable Turkish community was formed, eventually composing 18 percent of the total population.

Last, and the most significant, the Turkish conquest restored the Greek Orthodox church to its former princely status and endowed it with unprecedented secular and spiritual powers. The authority vacuum created by the abolition of the aristocratic order was filled by the church, which became the most central institution in Greek Cypriot society. The Turks recognized only Orthodoxy as the official non-Muslim religion of the island, and they persecuted the Catholics. In short, the Turks reversed the situation that existed under feudalism. In addition, the sultan vested the church with special administrative privileges, such as collecting state taxes and officially representing the Orthodox Greek s in Istanbul. The archbishop was elevated to the status of Ethnarc, national leader or political spokesman for the Greek population. Consequently, the church of Cyprus became under Turkish rule the most authoritative and powerful institution on the island. It has been said that during the eighteenth century the archbishop’s political authority was almost equal, if not superior, t that of the Turkish Governor (Ref. below)”

Claude D. Cobham, Exerpta Cypria (Cambridge, Eng.: Cambridge University Press, 1908), pp. 458-59

In that conflict which you started in 1958, GCs and TCs lost an about equal amount of people, a few 100s each.

We did not start the conflict, you did when you revolted via EOKA to hand us and anything we owned on this island to Greece in the middle of the 20th century. You lost.

We revolted as it was our right to revolt against foreign colonialists so the Greek island of Cyprus would be liberated like it happened to many other Greek islands and territories before. I guess it was fine for you when you were killing and oppressing us and you forced Cyprus to be part of your empire, but strangely it was not fine for Cyprus to be part of a free Greek state which is what the Cypriots themselves wanted!

No, Cypriots themselves did not want to be a part of Greece, the GC COMMUNITY did. The TCs rightfully resisted to be handed over to Greece along with their land and property and at the end the TCs have won. Thanks to the resistance of the TCs to your agenda, an independent Cyprus state was born.

And you are the ones who attacked us and started the conflict in 1958, and there is no doubt about this:?

Wrong again. EOKA had already murdered TCs employed as policeman before this.

For our own island we can want whatever we want and we will not ask any foreigners about it. ?

It is not soleley your island, so your demands alone do not determine what is to happen to the island. You will ask me and unless I approve it you will not have it - see your ENOSIS conquest for details.

We are already united with Greece within EU.

You are as united with Greece as Bulgaria is united with England within the EU. That is not ENOSIS.

After centuries of being under foreign rule we manage to liberate a part of our island.

After centuries of being under foreign rule you chose to go under another one, namely Greece, as opposed to chosing to live in an independent Cyprus with us. And when we forced you into that independent state, you destroyed it at the first opportunity you had.

The remaining part is still under illegal foreign occupation, but the war you started against us to take our lands is not ever yet.

We the TCs live in the remaining part so it is not under any occupation. Due to your military aggression that started in 1963, we need additional reinforcements for our security here. Thankfully, Turkey has agreed to provide this to us.

It will be over when the whole of Cyprus is liberated.

Which is when you decide or are forced to put down your criminal agenda of trying to extend your soverrignity over us.