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The Greek embezzlement of the cultural and historical...

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby Get Real! » Fri Apr 18, 2008 2:52 am

Murataga wrote:What misinformation are you talking about?

This... "we were prevented from participating in the RoC"

Have you not read that all that I have written is from the U.N. documents? And what is your alternative to this not mention the question why you need to find one? The website of a policy making intitution of a foreign government with reference to documents that include the American Hellenic Institute?

I'd love to read it but I can't because its NOT LEGIBLE. Please use paragraphs, quotes, and links, to clearly indicate which parts are yours and which parts are quotes thank you. :roll:
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Postby Big Al » Fri Apr 18, 2008 3:05 am

Get Real! wrote:
Big Al wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
Murataga wrote:Your quote proves nothing because it is simply a comment where as the one I provided is specific and detailed dates, names, incidents, demands and responses of how we were prevented from participating in the RoC. Sadly, all you can come up with is to say that because the world chose to look the other way, everything is fine. The world was fine about slavery for centuries and recognizing the coupist government as the legal one in Greece when it was strategically beneficial to do so. Your recognition as the owner of something that you stole from the righteous owner is nothing different than these.

“Beginning in late 1963, Turkish Cypriots withdrew from the government, and by 1965 the Greek Cypriots were in full charge.”

http://countrystudies.us/cyprus/53.htm

:roll:

GR, why dont we unite Cyprus and put you has president, with Oracle as prime minister. how long will the TC last i wonder :?

Should I assume by this that you are unhappy that I've provided a credible source that proves Murataga's misinformation? :?

Given that I'm the kind of person who likes to get to the bottom of things by tirelessly searching for credible evidence in each and every aspect, I can confidently state that Cyprus would be VERY lucky to have someone like me running it.


No doubt GR, i just dont think there will be any TC's left on the island..
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Postby Murataga » Fri Apr 18, 2008 7:24 am

Get Real! wrote:
Murataga wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
Murataga wrote:According to which reference from the bibliography? Maybe this one ?...

Cyprus: The Tragedy and the Challenge. Washington: American Hellenic Institute, 1975

Source: U.S. Library of Congress

Instead of assuming try reading the link.

As for your piece... IF and WHEN you present it in a LEGIBLE manner I'll be happy to read and evaluate it thank you.

No, the source is not the U.S. Library of Congress, the specific document edited by particular author using unclear referncing system is the source. The U.S. Library of Congress website just happens to have chosen to use it. The source contains no specific info on the references it uses from the bibliography, which may well be pointing to that of the American Hellenic Institute for your quote, not to mention that it clearly contradicts the desription of the U.N. documents.

Here’s the DIRECT link from the “Library of Congress Country Studies”… it’s exactly the same in content.

http://lcweb2.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?f ... CID+cy0115)

Your comment above, which I highlighted, is so immature it's not funny! :roll:


We obviously have a communication problem. Here is what I am trying to get across:

(1) What I told you is that neither the library, its website or the U.S. congress is the source of the text. The source of the text is a book who has an editor:

http://catalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebreco ... s+per+page

The website simply made available an on-line version of this book - neither the library, its website or the congress is the source.

(2) This edited book has what you quoted, however, the specific original reference material to what you quoted is not indicated clearly. Actually, nothing is linked to its original reference. If you care to look at the bibliography of this book, ( http://lcweb2.loc.gov/frd/cs/cyprus/cy_bibl.html ) you will see that there are numerous refrences that include:

Cyprus: The Tragedy and the Challenge. Washington: American Hellenic Institute, 1975

So what you quoted in the text may well have been taken from this source. And even if it did or did not come from the American Hellenic Institute, it contradicts what the U.N. documents describe of the situation.
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Postby Murataga » Fri Apr 18, 2008 7:29 am

Get Real! wrote:
Murataga wrote:What misinformation are you talking about?

This... "we were prevented from participating in the RoC"


See below than...

Get Real! wrote:
Murataga wrote:Have you not read that all that I have written is from the U.N. documents? And what is your alternative to this not mention the question why you need to find one? The website of a policy making intitution of a foreign government with reference to documents that include the American Hellenic Institute?

I'd love to read it but I can't because its NOT LEGIBLE. Please use paragraphs, quotes, and links, to clearly indicate which parts are yours and which parts are quotes thank you. :roll:


Let me know if the following relevant parts of the document U.N. S/6569 that elaborate the demands and responses of the TC and GC sides help:

Image

Image

Image
Image
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Postby DT. » Fri Apr 18, 2008 7:41 am

Are you for real? A TC is quoting UN security Resolutions to a GC? Are you on drugs? :lol:
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Postby Piratis » Fri Apr 18, 2008 10:28 am

DT, thats not a UN resolution, thats just some selectively chosen pages of some report and nothing more.

As I said earlier no UN resolution ever found Republic of Cyprus or Greek Cypriots guilty of anything.

Sorry to be the one breaking this out to you but you are not completely free to do whatever you like. That is not democracy, that is tyranny and Constitutions exist specifically to prevent this. You have destroyed the Constitution of the RoC to eliminate our status described therein and refused our participation in the Government unless we put our signature under those illegal changes. I just gave you a detailed description of when, how and by whom. You could not "democratically" wish to do what you have done.

The main element of democracy is majority rule and the majority has the right to rule the country as long as the human, democratic and minority rights of others are respected. Thats the limits to democracy and we never crossed those limits. What foreigners want to impose on your country is NOT a limit.

At no point did we try to change anything that would violate any of the above rights for any Cypriot citizen. We simply made proposals for the modification of the foreign imposed constidution, so we would make it a Cypriot constidution, for Cypriots - by Cypriots, where it would be more democratic and more fair.

Your quote proves nothing because it is simply a comment where as the one I provided is specific and detailed dates, names, incidents, demands and responses of how we were prevented from participating in the RoC. Sadly, all you can come up with is to say that because the world chose to look the other way, everything is fine. The world was fine about slavery for centuries and recognizing the coupist government as the legal one in Greece when it was strategically beneficial to do so. Your recognition as the owner of something that you stole from the righteous owner is nothing different than these.


What I posted comes from the same reports as the ones you do!!!

About you accusing us of stealing, thats a classing case of the pot calling the kettle black.
We have never ventured out of our island to harm anybody. On the contrary it is you who kept attacking us in order to occupy our lands, enslave us, and force your will on the Cypriot people. You did this in 1571 when you first came, killing 10s of thousands of people, you did it again in 1821 (and many other times) when the Cypriot people tried to revolt for their freedom, you did it again in 1958 when you attacked us in order to help the British colonialists to oppress our revolution, you did it again in 1974 when you again invaded our island, and you continue doing it until today.

All we ever fought for was for our right to be free from the foreign rulers so we can democratically rule our own island. In a democracy the people of your minority have the right for one vote each like every other citizen, and a right for human and minority rights. But you have no right to impose on the Cypriot people whatever you feel like, we are not living in the middle ages where you could do that against us.

And yes, the world could accept slavery, otherwise it would not be acceptable for Turks and later British to come and enslave the Cypriot people. And yes they can accept dictatorships, otherwise they would not accept the military ruled fascist state of Turkey and would not tolerate the criminal occupation of the north part of our country.

The UN resolutions are in favor of Cyprus exactly because we have the 100% of justice on our side. Otherwise why would the UN security council members, including your best allies the USA and UK, vote for those resolutions? It is not Cyprus which is their best ally, Turkey is. It is not Cyprus which has a lot of power and influence, Turkey is. It is not Cyprus which has oil and pipelines, Turkey is. It is not Cyprus which has a 60 million people market, Turkey is.
The only thing that Cyprus has on its side is justice and not even your best allies could ignore that. Thats why they couldn't act differently officially.
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Postby DT. » Fri Apr 18, 2008 10:37 am

Piratis wrote:DT, thats not a UN resolution, thats just some selectively chosen pages of some report and nothing more.

As I said earlier no UN resolution ever found Republic of Cyprus or Greek Cypriots guilty of anything.

Sorry to be the one breaking this out to you but you are not completely free to do whatever you like. That is not democracy, that is tyranny and Constitutions exist specifically to prevent this. You have destroyed the Constitution of the RoC to eliminate our status described therein and refused our participation in the Government unless we put our signature under those illegal changes. I just gave you a detailed description of when, how and by whom. You could not "democratically" wish to do what you have done.

The main element of democracy is majority rule and the majority has the right to rule the country as long as the human, democratic and minority rights of others are respected. Thats the limits to democracy and we never crossed those limits. What foreigners want to impose on your country is NOT a limit.

At no point did we try to change anything that would violate any of the above rights for any Cypriot citizen. We simply made proposals for the modification of the foreign imposed constidution, so we would make it a Cypriot constidution, for Cypriots - by Cypriots, where it would be more democratic and more fair.

Your quote proves nothing because it is simply a comment where as the one I provided is specific and detailed dates, names, incidents, demands and responses of how we were prevented from participating in the RoC. Sadly, all you can come up with is to say that because the world chose to look the other way, everything is fine. The world was fine about slavery for centuries and recognizing the coupist government as the legal one in Greece when it was strategically beneficial to do so. Your recognition as the owner of something that you stole from the righteous owner is nothing different than these.


What I posted comes from the same reports as the ones you do!!!

About you accusing us of stealing, thats a classing case of the pot calling the kettle black.
We have never ventured out of our island to harm anybody. On the contrary it is you who kept attacking us in order to occupy our lands, enslave us, and force your will on the Cypriot people. You did this in 1571 when you first came, killing 10s of thousands of people, you did it again in 1821 (and many other times) when the Cypriot people tried to revolt for their freedom, you did it again in 1958 when you attacked us in order to help the British colonialists to oppress our revolution, you did it again in 1974 when you again invaded our island, and you continue doing it until today.

All we ever fought for was for our right to be free from the foreign rulers so we can democratically rule our own island. In a democracy the people of your minority have the right for one vote each like every other citizen, and a right for human and minority rights. But you have no right to impose on the Cypriot people whatever you feel like, we are not living in the middle ages where you could do that against us.

And yes, the world could accept slavery, otherwise it would not be acceptable for Turks and later British to come and enslave the Cypriot people. And yes they can accept dictatorships, otherwise they would not accept the military ruled fascist state of Turkey and would not tolerate the criminal occupation of the north part of our country.

The UN resolutions are in favor of Cyprus exactly because we have the 100% of justice on our side. Otherwise why would the UN security council members, including your best allies the USA and UK, vote for those resolutions? It is not Cyprus which is their best ally, Turkey is. It is not Cyprus which has a lot of power and influence, Turkey is. It is not Cyprus which has oil and pipelines, Turkey is. It is not Cyprus which has a 60 million people market, Turkey is.
The only thing that Cyprus has on its side is justice and not even your best allies could ignore that. Thats why they couldn't act differently officially.


my apologies, I didn;t even bother to open it.
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Postby Get Real! » Fri Apr 18, 2008 1:52 pm

Murataga wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
Murataga wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
Murataga wrote:According to which reference from the bibliography? Maybe this one ?...

Cyprus: The Tragedy and the Challenge. Washington: American Hellenic Institute, 1975

Source: U.S. Library of Congress

Instead of assuming try reading the link.

As for your piece... IF and WHEN you present it in a LEGIBLE manner I'll be happy to read and evaluate it thank you.

No, the source is not the U.S. Library of Congress, the specific document edited by particular author using unclear referncing system is the source. The U.S. Library of Congress website just happens to have chosen to use it. The source contains no specific info on the references it uses from the bibliography, which may well be pointing to that of the American Hellenic Institute for your quote, not to mention that it clearly contradicts the desription of the U.N. documents.

Here’s the DIRECT link from the “Library of Congress Country Studies”… it’s exactly the same in content.

http://lcweb2.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?f ... CID+cy0115)

Your comment above, which I highlighted, is so immature it's not funny! :roll:


We obviously have a communication problem. Here is what I am trying to get across:

(1) What I told you is that neither the library, its website or the U.S. congress is the source of the text. The source of the text is a book who has an editor:

http://catalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebreco ... s+per+page

The website simply made available an on-line version of this book - neither the library, its website or the congress is the source.

(2) This edited book has what you quoted, however, the specific original reference material to what you quoted is not indicated clearly. Actually, nothing is linked to its original reference. If you care to look at the bibliography of this book, ( http://lcweb2.loc.gov/frd/cs/cyprus/cy_bibl.html ) you will see that there are numerous refrences that include:

Cyprus: The Tragedy and the Challenge. Washington: American Hellenic Institute, 1975

So what you quoted in the text may well have been taken from this source. And even if it did or did not come from the American Hellenic Institute, it contradicts what the U.N. documents describe of the situation.

Your first link has no signs of any Greek involvement and your second link has like 200 sources of reference including this...

Denktash [Denktas], Rauf R. The Cyprus Triangle. London:
K. Rüstem and Brother, 1982.


...so quit farting Murataga! :roll:
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