Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

No Piratis Cyprus was never part of Greece or ever a Greek island, you are deluding yourself, the island has been bastardized enough times to honestly claim that the remenents which are us the Cypriots have the same DNA but choose to seperate ourselves and call ourselves either Turkish or Greek before Cypriot, there are ofcourse people who truely believe they are just Cypriots. So as soon as you get of your high horse in claiming that Cyprus is more yours than mine the sooner we will see each other as equals not as as individuals but also as communities, this will help build a stronger balance and understanding between the 2 communities until a time comes where they wish to one and known just as Cypriots.

We fought against all the odds to survive against you enosis dream, your ignoring this fact makes you less a person in my eyes. The fear displayed by the older TC generation has to be experienced to understand that their concerns were bery real back in our dark history, maybe you need to speak to some of these people to wipe away your warped perception that we did nto suffer and that the numbers game you play will wash away guilt.

It is not about DNA Viewpoint. If it was about DNA then "Turks" would have been considered an extinct kind, unless you know many oriental looking people living in Asia Minor.

What makes somebody what he is, is his language and culture.

What you fought for was to keep Cypriots enslaved under British and Turkish rule. You have never been under any threat from the dream of Cypriots to be free. On the contrary it is you who attacked Cypriots and threaten them that you would annihilate them from the north part of their country if they dared to fight against the Colonialists. Apparently it was fine for you if Cyprus was under the Turks or the British, but not fine if Cyprus was part of a free Greek state which is what Cypriots themselves wanted.

If you wanted to live in Cyprus as equal Cypriot citizens, then why didn't you propose it? It was Makarios who first proposed independence for Cyprus, not you. And what Makarios meant by independance was one free Cyprus, with no foreign troops and where all Cypriots would be equal.

But you didn't accept that you are just Cypriots, did you? You said that you are different "peoples". And along with the UK and Turkey you forced division and segregation in Cyprus.

You have never accepted to be just Cypriots. I am several years in this forum and you have always claimed that you are different, not just Cypriots. This is the same thing you are saying since the 50s. Have you changed your mind now?

If you changed your mind and you are now ready to accept my proposal for one united democratic Cyprus where all Cypriots citizens would be equal without any discriminations then I would be more than glad to sacrifice my "Greekness" as long as you sacrifice your "Turkishness".

But what I am guessing is that you want us to sacrifice our Greekness, while you will continue to insist that you are not just Cypriots, but the "great" Turkish Cypriots who should be distinct and segregated from all the rest. Am I wrong?

Piratis its not just about Turkish or Greek its 99% about trust and can we live together, there is absolutely no trust and thats why safeguards are demanded to ensure the majority do not run over the minority, these may seem unfair but if you have no intention of breaking these agreement then what have you got to fear? we will noway accept being forced to live in a GC state run by GCs, we want to share the island equally as 2 partners, you want the whole island for yourselves with us as a minority taking our chances living under GC rule. Well if your mindset is the majority and I understand it is you have no alternative but to wait for that swing in power you long for so you can finish off the job you could do back in 1963 to 1974

So a moment ago we were all just Cypriots, and now we are the "evil" Greeks again? hmmm.

And also what "trust" has to do with you keeping our lands under your rule? Keeping our lands under your rule and violating our human rights is call a "safeguard" now? I thought it was called the Cyprus Problem, the one we were trying to solve.

Piratis so do you ever absorb or understand what I post? we are not just Cypriots today, this mindset was never given a chnace ot develop and will need time to develop this can only be done by building trust when we are all 100% certain then we will all be Cypriots but for now safeguards however absurd you may think them are vital in any solution put forward, otherwise that proposal will be rejected.

[humanist]

and we thought we got problems with occupation. Just watching a doco on the Tibetan occupation by China. FREE TIBET apologies for the interuption in the thread.

[observer]

Part of what Piratis wrote:

If you wanted to live in Cyprus as equal Cypriot citizens, then why didn't you propose it? It was Makarios who first proposed independence for Cyprus, not you. And what Makarios meant by independance was one free Cyprus, with no foreign troops and where all Cypriots would be equal

Makarios Greek Cypriot press 17/3/1965

We shall keep the Cyprus question open and will never close it under any circumstances or conditions until we close it through union with Greece, a genuine ENOSIS without exchanges

[Get Real!]

Part of what Piratis wrote:

If you wanted to live in Cyprus as equal Cypriot citizens, then why didn't you propose it? It was Makarios who first proposed independence for Cyprus, not you. And what Makarios meant by independance was one free Cyprus, with no foreign troops and where all Cypriots would be equal

Makarios Greek Cypriot press 17/3/1965

We shall keep the Cyprus question open and will never close it under any circumstances or conditions until we close it through union with Greece, a genuine ENOSIS without exchanges

Do not feel ashamed to quote your sources...

http://www.turkses.com/index.php?option ... &Itemid=33

...because "Greek Cypriot press" doesn't work here...

[Piratis]

No Piratis Cyprus was never part of Greece or ever a Greek island, you are deluding yourself, the island has been bastardized enough times to honestly claim that the remenents which are us the Cypriots have the same DNA but choose to seperate ourselves and call ourselves either Turkish or Greek before Cypriot, there are ofcourse people who truely believe they are just Cypriots. So as soon as you get of your high horse in claiming that Cyprus is more yours than mine the sooner we will see each other as equals not as as individuals but also as communities, this will help build a stronger balance and understanding between the 2 communities until a time comes where they wish to one and known just as Cypriots.

We fought against all the odds to survive against you enosis dream, your ignoring this fact makes you less a person in my eyes. The fear displayed by the older TC generation has to be experienced to understand that their concerns were bery real back in our dark history, maybe you need to speak to some of these people to wipe away your warped perception that we did nto suffer and that the numbers game you play will wash away guilt.

It is not about DNA Viewpoint. If it was about DNA then "Turks" would have been considered an extinct kind, unless you know many oriental looking people living in Asia Minor.

What makes somebody what he is, is his language and culture.

What you fought for was to keep Cypriots enslaved under British and Turkish rule. You have never been under any threat from the dream of Cypriots to be free. On the contrary it is you who attacked Cypriots and threaten them that you would annihilate them from the north part of their country if they dared to fight against the Colonialists. Apparently it was fine for you if Cyprus was under the Turks or the British, but not fine if Cyprus was part of a free Greek state which is what Cypriots themselves wanted.

If you wanted to live in Cyprus as equal Cypriot citizens, then why didn't you propose it? It was Makarios who first proposed independence for Cyprus, not you. And what Makarios meant by independance was one free Cyprus, with no foreign troops and where all Cypriots would be equal.

But you didn't accept that you are just Cypriots, did you? You said that you are different "peoples". And along with the UK and Turkey you forced division and segregation in Cyprus.

You have never accepted to be just Cypriots. I am several years in this forum and you have always claimed that you are different, not just Cypriots. This is the same thing you are saying since the 50s. Have you changed your mind now?

If you changed your mind and you are now ready to accept my proposal for one united democratic Cyprus where all Cypriots citizens would be equal without any discriminations then I would be more than glad to sacrifice my "Greekness" as long as you sacrifice your "Turkishness".

But what I am guessing is that you want us to sacrifice our Greekness, while you will continue to insist that you are not just Cypriots, but the "great" Turkish Cypriots who should be distinct and segregated from all the rest. Am I wrong?

Piratis its not just about Turkish or Greek its 99% about trust and can we live together, there is absolutely no trust and thats why safeguards are demanded to ensure the majority do not run over the minority, these may seem unfair but if you have no intention of breaking these agreement then what have you got to fear? we will noway accept being forced to live in a GC state run by GCs, we want to share the island equally as 2 partners, you want the whole island for yourselves with us as a minority taking our chances living under GC rule. Well if your mindset is the majority and I understand it is you have no alternative but to wait for that swing in power you long for so you can finish off the job you could do back in 1963 to 1974

So a moment ago we were all just Cypriots, and now we are the "evil" Greeks again? hmmm.

And also what "trust" has to do with you keeping our lands under your rule? Keeping our lands under your rule and violating our human rights is call a "safeguard" now? I thought it was called the Cyprus Problem, the one we were trying to solve.

Piratis so do you ever absorb or understand what I post? we are not just Cypriots today, this mindset was never given a chnace ot develop and will need time to develop this can only be done by building trust when we are all 100% certain then we will all be Cypriots but for now safeguards however absurd you may think them are vital in any solution put forward, otherwise that proposal will be rejected.

A moment ago we were all Cypriots, and now Cypriots is something never developed Let me tell you viewpoint, Cypriots exist for 1000s of years. The question is: Are you part of the Cypriot people or you are not? Decide.

Also you didn't answer to the question: How is any "safeguards" related with you ruling over our land?

[observer]

Part of what Piratis wrote:

If you wanted to live in Cyprus as equal Cypriot citizens, then why didn't you propose it? It was Makarios who first proposed independence for Cyprus, not you. And what Makarios meant by independance was one free Cyprus, with no foreign troops and where all Cypriots would be equal

Makarios Greek Cypriot press 17/3/1965

We shall keep the Cyprus question open and will never close it under any circumstances or conditions until we close it through union with Greece, a genuine ENOSIS without exchanges

Do not feel ashamed to quote your sources...

http://www.turkses.com/index.php?option ... &Itemid=33

...because "Greek Cypriot press" doesn't work here...

Interview with Richard Gilbert May 1964
Gilbert: If Enosis does come how do you feel, sir, about not being a member of the Commonwealth?
Makarios: I support the Commonwealth as an institution and as long as Cyprus is not united with Greece, we will continue to be a member of the Commonwealth family. The choice, however, between Enosis and Commonwealth is not a difficult one. I shall feel very happy when Cyprus is united with Greece which is our Motherland

[Piratis]

Part of what Piratis wrote:

If you wanted to live in Cyprus as equal Cypriot citizens, then why didn't you propose it? It was Makarios who first proposed independence for Cyprus, not you. And what Makarios meant by independance was one free Cyprus, with no foreign troops and where all Cypriots would be equal

Makarios Greek Cypriot press 17/3/1965

We shall keep the Cyprus question open and will never close it under any circumstances or conditions until we close it through union with Greece, a genuine ENOSIS without exchanges

Do not feel ashamed to quote your sources...

http://www.turkses.com/index.php?option ... &Itemid=33

...because "Greek Cypriot press" doesn't work here...

Interview with Richard Gilbert May 1964
Gilbert: If Enosis does come how do you feel, sir, about not being a member of the Commonwealth?
Makarios: I support the Commonwealth as an institution and as long as Cyprus is not united with Greece, we will continue to be a member of the Commonwealth family. The choice, however, between Enosis and Commonwealth is not a difficult one. I shall feel very happy when Cyprus is united with Greece which is our Motherland

Of course Cypriots wanted be part of a free Greek state instead of the fake independence which made us a protectorate of UK and Turkey.

What exactly is so hard for you to understand observer?

As I said, Makarios proposed a true independence, not what they forced on us with your help.

A true independence would be a legitimate alternative to the other legitimate alternative which was union with Greece.

Do you have any problem with Greek territories and islands being liberated from Turkish or other foreign rule observer? (I know the answer. If you didn't have a problem then Cyprus would have been free since 1821)

[observer]

The thing that I find quite simple to understand is that Makarios said over and over again, in many different interviews and speeches, that he wanted Cyprus to become part of Greece - like Crete - like Rodos.

I don't equate this with independence for Cyprus or "one free Cyprus". I equate it with being a province of Greece. So did his one time ally Grivas. So did EOKA. So did Athens. So does the whole of the informed world. with the curious exception of some GCs

It's this rewriting and airbrushing of history that makes me so suspicious.

There are some GCs who openly say that in the 1950s and 1960s GCs wanted enosis but the idea faded in the 1970s and now very few people want enosis. I can live with that. It's out in the open and honest, perhaps the person saying it is honest.

But then there are a number of GCs who deny against all the evidence that they ever wanted enosis, and they were only fighting for independence from Britain. Starting off with such an enormous lie, why should I trust any promise they make?

[Eric dayi]

No Piratis Cyprus was never part of Greece or ever a Greek island, you are deluding yourself, the island has been bastardized enough times to honestly claim that the remenents which are us the Cypriots have the same DNA but choose to seperate ourselves and call ourselves either Turkish or Greek before Cypriot, there are ofcourse people who truely believe they are just Cypriots. So as soon as you get of your high horse in claiming that Cyprus is more yours than mine the sooner we will see each other as equals not as as individuals but also as communities, this will help build a stronger balance and understanding between the 2 communities until a time comes where they wish to one and known just as Cypriots.

We fought against all the odds to survive against you enosis dream, your ignoring this fact makes you less a person in my eyes. The fear displayed by the older TC generation has to be experienced to understand that their concerns were bery real back in our dark history, maybe you need to speak to some of these people to wipe away your warped perception that we did nto suffer and that the numbers game you play will wash away guilt.

It is not about DNA Viewpoint. If it was about DNA then "Turks" would have been considered an extinct kind, unless you know many oriental looking people living in Asia Minor.

What makes somebody what he is, is his language and culture.

What you fought for was to keep Cypriots enslaved under British and Turkish rule. You have never been under any threat from the dream of Cypriots to be free. On the contrary it is you who attacked Cypriots and threaten them that you would annihilate them from the north part of their country if they dared to fight against the Colonialists. Apparently it was fine for you if Cyprus was under the Turks or the British, but not fine if Cyprus was part of a free Greek state which is what Cypriots themselves wanted.

If you wanted to live in Cyprus as equal Cypriot citizens, then why didn't you propose it? It was Makarios who first proposed independence for Cyprus, not you. And what Makarios meant by independance was one free Cyprus, with no foreign troops and where all Cypriots would be equal.

But you didn't accept that you are just Cypriots, did you? You said that you are different "peoples". And along with the UK and Turkey you forced division and segregation in Cyprus.

You have never accepted to be just Cypriots. I am several years in this forum and you have always claimed that you are different, not just Cypriots. This is the same thing you are saying since the 50s. Have you changed your mind now?

If you changed your mind and you are now ready to accept my proposal for one united democratic Cyprus where all Cypriots citizens would be equal without any discriminations then I would be more than glad to sacrifice my "Greekness" as long as you sacrifice your "Turkishness".

But what I am guessing is that you want us to sacrifice our Greekness, while you will continue to insist that you are not just Cypriots, but the "great" Turkish Cypriots who should be distinct and segregated from all the rest. Am I wrong?

Piratis its not just about Turkish or Greek its 99% about trust and can we live together, there is absolutely no trust and thats why safeguards are demanded to ensure the majority do not run over the minority, these may seem unfair but if you have no intention of breaking these agreement then what have you got to fear? we will noway accept being forced to live in a GC state run by GCs, we want to share the island equally as 2 partners, you want the whole island for yourselves with us as a minority taking our chances living under GC rule. Well if your mindset is the majority and I understand it is you have no alternative but to wait for that swing in power you long for so you can finish off the job you could do back in 1963 to 1974

So a moment ago we were all just Cypriots, and now we are the "evil" Greeks again? hmmm.

And also what "trust" has to do with you keeping our lands under your rule? Keeping our lands under your rule and violating our human rights is call a "safeguard" now? I thought it was called the Cyprus Problem, the one we were trying to solve.

Piratis so do you ever absorb or understand what I post? we are not just Cypriots today, this mindset was never given a chnace ot develop and will need time to develop this can only be done by building trust when we are all 100% certain then we will all be Cypriots but for now safeguards however absurd you may think them are vital in any solution put forward, otherwise that proposal will be rejected.

A moment ago we were all Cypriots, and now Cypriots is something never developed Let me tell you viewpoint, Cypriots exist for 1000s of years. The question is: Are you part of the Cypriot people or you are not? Decide.

Also you didn't answer to the question: How is any "safeguards" related with you ruling over our land?

You are still a "Cypriot" ONLY because you did not manage to have your ENOSIS but had you managed it you, me and ever single "Cypriot" would be "Greeks" now. So be very thankful that you can still call yourself a "Cypriot".

[Eric dayi]

Part of what Piratis wrote:

If you wanted to live in Cyprus as equal Cypriot citizens, then why didn't you propose it? It was Makarios who first proposed independence for Cyprus, not you. And what Makarios meant by independance was one free Cyprus, with no foreign troops and where all Cypriots would be equal

Makarios Greek Cypriot press 17/3/1965

We shall keep the Cyprus question open and will never close it under any circumstances or conditions until we close it through union with Greece, a genuine ENOSIS without exchanges

Do not feel ashamed to quote your sources...

http://www.turkses.com/index.php?option ... &Itemid=33

...because "Greek Cypriot press" doesn't work here...

Interview with Richard Gilbert May 1964
Gilbert: If Enosis does come how do you feel, sir, about not being a member of the Commonwealth?
Makarios: I support the Commonwealth as an institution and as long as Cyprus is not united with Greece, we will continue to be a member of the Commonwealth family. The choice, however, between Enosis and Commonwealth is not a difficult one. I shall feel very happy when Cyprus is united with Greece which is our Motherland

Of course Cypriots wanted be part of a free Greek state instead of the fake independence which made us a protectorate of UK and Turkey.

What exactly is so hard for you to understand observer?

As I said, Makarios proposed a true independence, not what they forced on us with your help.

A true independence would be a legitimate alternative to the other legitimate alternative which was union with Greece.

Do you have any problem with Greek territories and islands being liberated from Turkish or other foreign rule observer? (I know the answer. If you didn't have a problem then Cyprus would have been free since 1821)

Have you ever though of becoming a comedian Piratis? You are really funny, better than most of the idiots we see today on the TV. I'll be your manager if you want, we'll earn millions with your talent.