Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

How is it propaganda Umit? Think about mate and think about it well. In a democracy as I hope Cyprus will be if unification occurs and you have your little state in the north. How can you ensure who in the future buys sells and exchanges their property? What will you do if a TC sells his land to a GC sorry you cannot live here because you have a happened to have a GC background. Is that the democracy you are proposing for our country.

The reality is TC sight is so narrow minded that you are going to create another 1974 in 50 years time. Because none of you are able to think broadly and allow for a one Cyprus one peopl nation.

Kifeas put forward a proposal for a balance in power which was acceptable, he allowed for us the ability to stop decisions where we felt it was sensative and more negative for either community. Thats all we ask for as there is no trust and things should not be left to chance, we will not accept anything less, so the sooner GCs get thrit minds around this red line the better it will be for a future solution.

He he he! That is unfortunately not the only thing you ask! You ask way more, most of which is completely and totally illegitimate!

Details please, allowing that 1974 chnaged everything in Cyprus forever.

Ha …ha …ha! “Allowing that 1974 changed everything in Cyprus!” In other words, “allowing for all the illegalities and human rights violations that Mama Turka committed in Cyprus, with the use of force and aggression, to be accommodated and passed as irreversible fait accomplices, only because they favor the Turkish /TC irredentist cause!"

Kifeas and Piratis, do you claim that today Cyprus is the same as it was in 1974? 34 years have passed many factors have changed and find a solution is more difficult than ever as those factors have to be accomadated is we want to resolve this matter. Please see the reality before you we cannot wave a magic wand and turn back the clock you have to accept the situation as it is and negotiate from there otherwise the current situation will continue well after we are all dead and buried.

Thanks for admitting that the reason your Denktash and mama Turka had been dragging their feed during all these years since 1974, ("Cyprus problem was solve in 1974," according to Denktash and Ecevit;) was so that you would have come in year 2008 to try and sell us the above little story!


PS: VP, perhaps you have not been able to realize yet that the GCs -due to their 4,000 years of long existence all over this country, do not think in terms of years but only in terms of centuries and millenniums, and that 34 years in our calendar is just one minute of time for our history!

We to have made many mistakes, but with attitude like yours and Piratis you prove Denktash right everytime, there is noway he could have agreed a solution putting his community in danger by handing them over to the mercy of the majority who even today in 2008 havd difficulties accepting us as equal partners on this island.

[humanist]

VP this is the first time I hear you admitting mistakes on both sides. Actually I applaud this because it gives you more credibility. However when you talk about majority / minority, it really takes away from your arguments. That is something that the TC community will have to accept , it is the reality GC's have been on the Island much longer and therefore have a majority. The argument needs to focus more on protecting the rights of all minority groups. Because that is the only option we have. Unless Turkey opens its doors to some half a million GC's to get them out of Cyprus so that we have numerical equality.

[Viewpoint]

VP

Kifeas put forward a proposal for a balance in power which was acceptable, he allowed for us the ability to stop decisions where we felt it was sensative and more negative for either community. Thats all we ask for as there is no trust and things should not be left to chance, we will not accept anything less, so the sooner GCs get th

VP you are right there is no trust. What saddens me more than anything is that there is no willingness to even contemplate future trust or anything else.

The GC's have got it, VP. Nothing is to be left to chance but how about fairness. And be assured the majority of GC's will not move back.

Trust does not come because you ask for it, it has to be earned, you say the GCs have it, I dont agree but say they do ask yourself why they do?? Without building trust you would be asking me to jump into a black hole and hope for the best, well excuse me if I dont take that leap of faith becuase the past tells me not to, if the GCs were to show they can be trusted then I would gladly also make moves in that direction also. Allowing me the safeguards I require would also be a big contribution towards building trust but the more GC deny and try to explain away our concerns the more safeguards we will require to ensure they do not brush us to one side in a new union.

[boomerang]

Try cleaning the works of Salvador Dali from graffitti mountain and then ask for anything in return...

[Viewpoint]

VP this is the first time I hear you admitting mistakes on both sides. Actually I applaud this because it gives you more credibility. However when you talk about majority / minority, it really takes away from your arguments. That is something that the TC community will have to accept , it is the reality GC's have been on the Island much longer and therefore have a majority. The argument needs to focus more on protecting the rights of all minority groups. Because that is the only option we have. Unless Turkey opens its doors to some half a million GC's to get them out of Cyprus so that we have numerical equality.

Thats why we insist on a 2 state BBF solution so that both communties have the opportunity to run their own states and all Cypriots can choose which they prefer to live under, why should I be forced to live in a GC state?

PS I have admitted our mistakes in past posts and even apologised but as you know people only read and remember what they want.

[humanist]

Sorry VP you have missundersttod me. I am sorry if I did not make myself clear. But I was saying that GC's have got it that things cannot be left to chance. That is all. Mate we don't trst you more than you trust us. That is eveident.

[Viewpoint]

Sorry VP you have missundersttod me. I am sorry if I did not make myself clear. But I was saying that GC's have got it that things cannot be left to chance. That is all. Mate we don't trst you more than you trust us. That is eveident.

Thats why safeguards are paramount for both sides in a solution.,, thats why we are always asking for them and you try to deny us which makes us even more suspiscious and untrusting.

[Piratis]

No Piratis Cyprus was never part of Greece or ever a Greek island, you are deluding yourself, the island has been bastardized enough times to honestly claim that the remenents which are us the Cypriots have the same DNA but choose to seperate ourselves and call ourselves either Turkish or Greek before Cypriot, there are ofcourse people who truely believe they are just Cypriots. So as soon as you get of your high horse in claiming that Cyprus is more yours than mine the sooner we will see each other as equals not as as individuals but also as communities, this will help build a stronger balance and understanding between the 2 communities until a time comes where they wish to one and known just as Cypriots.

We fought against all the odds to survive against you enosis dream, your ignoring this fact makes you less a person in my eyes. The fear displayed by the older TC generation has to be experienced to understand that their concerns were bery real back in our dark history, maybe you need to speak to some of these people to wipe away your warped perception that we did nto suffer and that the numbers game you play will wash away guilt.

It is not about DNA Viewpoint. If it was about DNA then "Turks" would have been considered an extinct kind, unless you know many oriental looking people living in Asia Minor.

What makes somebody what he is, is his language and culture.

What you fought for was to keep Cypriots enslaved under British and Turkish rule. You have never been under any threat from the dream of Cypriots to be free. On the contrary it is you who attacked Cypriots and threaten them that you would annihilate them from the north part of their country if they dared to fight against the Colonialists. Apparently it was fine for you if Cyprus was under the Turks or the British, but not fine if Cyprus was part of a free Greek state which is what Cypriots themselves wanted.

If you wanted to live in Cyprus as equal Cypriot citizens, then why didn't you propose it? It was Makarios who first proposed independence for Cyprus, not you. And what Makarios meant by independance was one free Cyprus, with no foreign troops and where all Cypriots would be equal.

But you didn't accept that you are just Cypriots, did you? You said that you are different "peoples". And along with the UK and Turkey you forced division and segregation in Cyprus.

You have never accepted to be just Cypriots. I am several years in this forum and you have always claimed that you are different, not just Cypriots. This is the same thing you are saying since the 50s. Have you changed your mind now?

If you changed your mind and you are now ready to accept my proposal for one united democratic Cyprus where all Cypriots citizens would be equal without any discriminations then I would be more than glad to sacrifice my "Greekness" as long as you sacrifice your "Turkishness".

But what I am guessing is that you want us to sacrifice our Greekness, while you will continue to insist that you are not just Cypriots, but the "great" Turkish Cypriots who should be distinct and segregated from all the rest. Am I wrong?

Piratis its not just about Turkish or Greek its 99% about trust and can we live together, there is absolutely no trust and thats why safeguards are demanded to ensure the majority do not run over the minority, these may seem unfair but if you have no intention of breaking these agreement then what have you got to fear? we will noway accept being forced to live in a GC state run by GCs, we want to share the island equally as 2 partners, you want the whole island for yourselves with us as a minority taking our chances living under GC rule. Well if your mindset is the majority and I understand it is you have no alternative but to wait for that swing in power you long for so you can finish off the job you could do back in 1963 to 1974

So a moment ago we were all just Cypriots, and now we are the "evil" Greeks again? hmmm.

And also what "trust" has to do with you keeping our lands under your rule? Keeping our lands under your rule and violating our human rights is call a "safeguard" now? I thought it was called the Cyprus Problem, the one we were trying to solve.

[humanist]

VP on an intellectual and psychospiritual level I have a problem with two state BBF solution but am happy to accept it for the sale of ending this nightmare.

The reason I reject it on a higher level is that it continues to be divisive. It does not promote the oness that I as a spiritual person believe in. But due to the mistakes of the past I am on a personal level suportive of a BBF. May be future generations can change that.

[michalis5354]

There are enough UN resolutions that determine the type of solution this is a BBF structure that neither side will have the power to impose anything . The TCs had also a veto right in Zurich agreements I dont see this as undemocractic . Veto right is the right to reject something If it is considered biased and unworkablet so I dont see any problem with this and dont even consider this undemocratic. No country is functioning on a perfect model of governance. Lets see the issue in a constructive manner.

anyone have to consider also the risk of permanent partition and all the other benefits from a settlement without using a black and white thinking.