Cyprus-Forum.com

[umit07]

WHo listens to mummy! Don't confuse me with yourself. Try slinging something better

Oh Kay .... you are too easy to wind up today, that mechanic is going to cost you dear.

Calm down, have a good nights rest and all will be better in the morning.

What are you trying to say. That you found some easy bait and you are playing with me. Now you've got me really pisseddd

Maybe it will just be easier if we had a whip-round for you

What whip ???????????? Is that some sort of barbaric hellenic custom of yours?

[Piratis]

Piratis

Cyprus has been a Greek island for 1000s of years, just like every other Greek island. Nobody asked from you to leave from Cyprus. We simply asked for our freedom, whats wrong with that?

Could you provide us with the exact dates of when the island was "GREEK", the island has been conquered so many times the ethnic fabric of the people is very mixed and claiming it was Greek or Turkish is irrelevent in 2008, the important issue is who are the indigenous people and how they shoudl run their own country. Imho both GCs and TCs are indigenous and therefore have just as much rights as each other. How we choose to build a structure where both communities are not disregarded in the decision making process and where we cannot agree and why we will be divided for many many years to come.

The great majority of the people of Cyprus speak Greek and have a Greek culture for 3500 years. This is somehting that can be said for very very few other places in the world. In fact Cyprus is way more Greek than Turkey is Turkish.

And I ask you again: Should no Greek island or territory be liberated and part of a free Greek state because the Ottomans spread some minorities of their kind on our lands?

If the minorities are of a considerable size then they have to be taken into account prior to enosis and not brushed to one side or anniahalated, as experienced in Cyprus, Crete and other now Greek islands.

Based on that argument no part of Greece should have been liberated to form an independent Greek state. A minority can have minority rights, and each of the citizens of the minority can have his human and democratic rights like every other citizen. But a minority can not force its own will in an undemocratic way.

Also stop lying about "annihilation" of TCs. In Cyprus the only ahinilation that we experienced was that of Greek Cypriots from the north part of Cyprus. In recent decades there was no other annihilation. The one before it was again commited by the Turks against the Cypriots. "Annihilation of TCs" is something that never happened and it is nothing more than Turkish propaganda produced to excuse the real annihilation of Cypriots from half of their homeland.

Was it fine when Cyprus was part of the British and Ottoman empires against the will of the Cypriots, but it was a "crime" if Cyprus was part of the free Greek state which is what the great majority of Cypriots wanted?

The island has been conquered time and time again and the effect of this meant that you were no longer alone in the decision making process you had to take into account all the population not just those that wanted to take a decision that would put part of the population at risk, you can disregard this as you will have civil unrest as we saw on our own island that lead to division. You are still suffering from withdrawal symptoms in understanding that if you did not have this desire to turn this island into a Greek island we would not be divided today.

When did the foreign invadors of your kind ever let the Cypriots to take the decisions? You always impose on us your will, and everything was fine for you when you were oppressing us and killing us by the 1000s.

It is time to allow Cypriots to take the decions in democratic way, and the people of your minority can have one vote each like everybody else. That is what democracy means.

The fact is that we have done absolutely nothing wrong. We fought for our freedom like the many other territories that where under colonial (British,Ottoman,French etc) rule. We have done nothing more than fight for our rights.

This really sums up GC mentality and why there will never a solution, they believe that they have all the rights and no one else can stand up for what they believe is right or even fight for survival.

You never fought for survival. You fought to take our lands and our rights. I have shown to you clearly that had not attacked you and we had not threaten your lives or anything else, until you attacked us, and you started threating us that you will annihilate us from half of our island.

The crime of Cypriots:

During the Greek War of Independence in 1821, the Ottoman authorities feared that Greek Cypriots would rebel again. Archbishop Kyprianos, a powerful leader who worked to improve the education of Greek Cypriot children, was accused of plotting against the government. Kyprianos, his bishops, and hundreds of priests and important laymen were arrested and summarily hanged or decapitated on July 9, 1821.

[Piratis]

You are the enemy oracle, not michalis. Only the truth serves the national interests and those that do not serve the truth are serving the enemy. Ignorance, by the way, is not a valid excuse and when you claim that EOKA did not aim at enosis or that in 1963 we merely tried to improve the 1959 Agreements (albeit unilaterally), you are either distorting the truth or you do not have a clue.

Who are helping the enemy are those who reproduce the propaganda of the enemy. You.

Isn't it true Bananiot that the foreign rules of Cyprus refused to allow Cypriots to democratically and peacefully decide the destiny of their own island, as it is described in the resolution for Decolonization:
http://www.un.org/Depts/dpi/decolonizat ... ration.htm
(please note that "integration into an independent State" is a perfectly legitimate option)

Isn't it true that Cyprus, like every other territory under colonial rule, had the right to fight for freedom since the Colonialists refuse to give it to us?

Isn't it true that it is the TCs who started the inter-communal conflict by attacking GCs in 1958, and the TCs (Turkey) who made threats and plans for the annihilation of GCs from half of their country?

Isn't it true that the 1959 constidution for Cyprus was made by foreigners and the leader of Cyprus was blackmailed to sign it, not even allowed to make a few amendments to the constidution of his own country?

[michalis5354]

Isn't it true that the 1959 constidution for Cyprus was made by foreigners and the leader of Cyprus was blackmailed to sign it, not even allowed to make a few amendments to the constidution of his own country?

This was the right choice to do under the circumstances . Why was gifting the island to Greece the legal alternative STILL I DONT UNDERSTAND THIS. Because EOKA BOYS Wanted it ~????

Cyprus was never part of Greece and this is stated in the World history and UN resolutions that have been adopted.

[Paphitis]

Isn't it true that the 1959 constidution for Cyprus was made by foreigners and the leader of Cyprus was blackmailed to sign it, not even allowed to make a few amendments to the constidution of his own country?

This was the right choice to do under the circumstances . Why was gifting the island to Greece the legal alternative STILL I DONT UNDERSTAND THIS. Because EOKA BOYS Wanted it ~????

Cyprus was never part of Greece and this is stated in the World history and UN resolutions that have been adopted.

Mihalis, if it were not for those EOKA boys fighting for delf determination, there would have been no 1959 Zurich agreement and Cyprus would still be a British colony today. Why don't you just come out and say that those EOKA boys who sacrificed their lives for your self determination was all in vain.

Also, the Zurich Agreement of 1959 was cleverly designed to protect British interests on the island and to facilitate Taksim and hence the present day situation. The British cleverly achieved their goals by their careful and strategic manipulation of the situation on the ground in Cyprus by cleverly intitiating "divide and rule" and pitting TCs against GCs and GCs against TCs to achieve their strategic goals. Partition was the British strategic plan from day one.

[miltiades]

The liberation struggle against the British was perfectly justifiable and a noble event in the history of the Cypriot people who had never in their long history ever fought an occupying force , and that is what British rule of Cyprus was , a foreign power occupying a nation in contravention of International conventions. The goal for ENOSIS , with hindsight was misguided , but nobody can deny that the overwhelming majority of Cypriots aspired to this goal.
Having got independence , our leaders , novices when it came to diplomatic fields , proceeded in the opposite direction to the one that should have been followed , which should have been the re conciliatory approach with the T/C minority , and the focus on establishing Cyprus as a truly independent nation. This approach was conceived by Makarios but sadly much later than it should have been , destabilizing nationalistic forces were tolerated at the expense of the fundamental issues of establishing Cyprus as a nation for all Cypriots , free and independent from the peoples' perceived motherlands. A perfect example the continuation of the Greek national anthem blatantly disregarding the Turkish Cypriots and those Cypriots who aspired to be accepted as Cypriots.
On one hand our government was , as it is today , telling the world that Cyprus is a sovereign independent nation whose government represents all Cypriots while on the other contradicting it self by a continued allegiance to a foreign nation. It is time now to rid ourselves of foreign influences , let us be proud Cypriots , Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots but whose allegiance is to the nation of Cyprus not to an " imposed" entity of South Cyprus or even worst the Turkish North , under the occupation and direct rule of Turkey. Throw out the remnants of the last century that inflicted so much harrowing conflicts on our people.

[michalis5354]

Paphitis:

Mihalis, if it were not for those EOKA boys fighting for delf determination, there would have been no 1959 Zurich agreement and Cyprus would still be a British colony today. Why don't you just come out and say that those EOKA boys who sacrificed their lives for your self determination was all in vain.

I dont agree the way it has been carried out . This is of course after 60 years but better late than never! You equate Self Determination not with Independence but Enosis which is wrong. This is the mistake of EOKA. It rejected the will of the population TCs or GCs.

The choice was between either :
(a) ENOSIS or
(b) British rule.
They did not even put the choice of Independence as a 3rd option to choose from.

If that had been done the people aspiring to enosis would significantly decline. So many chose Enosis to get rid of the British Rule but If they had a choice to choose from this WOULD HAD BEEN INDEPENDENCE.

I dont believe that Cyprus would still be a British Colony If EOKA was not formed from the begining. Other countries won independence long after Cyprus but what it matters they got it.

paphitis

Also, the Zurich Agreement of 1959 was cleverly designed to protect British interests on the island and to facilitate Taksim and hence the present day situation. The British cleverly achieved their goals by their careful and strategic manipulation of the situation on the ground in Cyprus by cleverly intitiating "divide and rule" and pitting TCs against GCs and GCs against TCs to achieve their strategic goals. Partition was the British strategic plan from day one.

We support UN when it suit our case and we condemn them when they argue against us. No county on earth is functioning upon a perfect model of governance. There are many Democracies around Switserland , belgium , Zimbabowe , Kenya. Others are sucessful Democracies some others have failed . It all depends how everyone is interpreting Democracy and human right.

Partition was the British strategic plan from day one.

This is totally wrong. Unless of course you believe in some conspiracy theories that the whole world has conspired against Cyprus. This is common in Cyprus politics.

[Oracle]

The choice was between either :
(a) ENOSIS or
(b) British rule.
They did not even put the choice of Independence as a 3rd option to choose from.

I really object to this as I know my father fought for the British in WWII thinking we would then gain Independence .... Independence was on the agenda for many Cypriots.

If ENOSIS was considered it was because they thought with the help of Greece, they would get rid of the British faster.

So the prime aim was always Independence, Michalis.

I dont believe that Cyprus would still be a British Colony If EOKA was not formed from the begining. Other countries won independence long after Cyprus but what it matters they got it.

Geopolitically Cyprus is a unique acquisition for the British (+ others!) which is why we have never had real Independence and are stuck (for now) with SBAs

Partition was the British strategic plan from day one.

This is totally wrong. Unless of course you believe in some conspiracy theories that the whole world has conspired against Cyprus. This is common in Cyprus politics.

Divide and rule was a common Practice by the British upon decolonisation, e.g. India, Sri Lanka.

[miltiades]

Oracle wrote:
""""""Divide and rule was a common Practice by the British upon decolonisation, e.g. India, Sri Lanka."""

India was divided by the Indians on religious grounds .The British DID NOT divide India neither did they create Pakistan .
As for Sri Lanka , the nation was never divided and it is still functioning as one state admittedly with the Northern region under the control of the Tamil Tigers.
Sri Lanka was given its independence by the British as one nation. The people and the people alone are responsible for the "division" of their island .

[Oracle]

Oracle wrote:
""""""Divide and rule was a common Practice by the British upon decolonisation, e.g. India, Sri Lanka."""

India was divided by the Indians on religious grounds .The British DID NOT divide India neither did they create Pakistan .
As for Sri Lanka , the nation was never divided and it is still functioning as one state admittedly with the Northern region under the control of the Tamil Tigers.
Sri Lanka was given its independence by the British as one nation. The people and the people alone are responsible for the "division" of their island .

Miltiades you are jumping to your own conclusions .... the facts are as I stated:

Tamil grievances

The British colonial policy of divide and rule sowed the seeds of renewed tensions between the Sinhalese and Tamil communities after independence.

Tamils, although well-educated, were given a disproportionate number of top jobs in the civil service by the British. Once the Sinhalese majority held sway, its politicians sought to redress the balance with populist but discriminatory policies against Tamils.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/514577.stm

How imperialist "divide and rule" tore India apart
The history of British rule in India is long and complex, but one feature was constant throughout - divide, co-opt and rule. Britain had believed its power on the subcontinent unassailable and was utterly stunned by a major revolt in 1857.

http://www.sa.org.au/index.php?option=c ... Itemid=106