Cyprus-Forum.com

[Bananiot]

In effect you are saying that because I judge that Papadopoulos is not interested in a solution I have a poisoned mind. This may have been true had my judgement not been based on objective observations. If we wait to see what he will do when the dice roll then I am afraid the bird would have flown long before. Papadopoulos, as I said many times, is an exposed politician. He has written numerous articles on his envisioned solution to the Cyprob. Never has he accepted that a bicommunal, bizonal federation which will be formed by two politically equal communities is a realistic option for solution. I consider that because we do not have the means to push for another type of solution the alternative is partition. Yet, Papadopoulos has quite explicitly said that partition is the next best solution. Am I completely wrong to worry?

[Viewpoint]

Thank god for the objective posts of Bananiot, Saint Jimmy and Alexandros, at least a few people can deal with reality and submit posts which are level headed and not one sided, well done guys, like to read what you have to say.

[cannedmoose]

Thank god for the objective posts of Bananiot, Saint Jimmy and Alexandros, at least a few people can deal with reality and submit posts which are level headed and not one sided, well done guys, like to read what you have to say.

I'm hurt VP!

[brother]

Vp forgot to mention my good friend CANNEDMOOSE who always speaks the truth whoever the cypriot maybe, and talks objectively about the cyprus problem...WELL DONE MATE, KEEP IT UP.

[cannedmoose]

Vp forgot to mention my good friend CANNEDMOOSE who always speaks the truth whoever the cypriot maybe, and talks objectively about the cyprus problem...WELL DONE MATE, KEEP IT UP.

You can take your tongue out of my bum now Bro'

Thanks arkadaş

[Saint Jimmy]

I second that. I totally agree with brother.

Jimmy,
It is not necessary for the entire nation or the entire political leadership to be involved with Cyprus, day and night. I know it is not the only problem they have. However, they have specialised branches, specialised think tanks, etc. The embassies do also a lot of the job for this purpose. They do the job and they present their hostile anti-Cypriot plans to the leadership in order to get final approvals. Yes day and night. Even this very momment they do it. They even read our postings in this forum to make our psychographic profiles. They even employee psychologists and marketers for this purpose.
But they well not succeed. For this I am sure!

Kifeas, this is a very interesting topic to discuss.
Would you care to elaborate on the elements that lead you to believe that the above processes are, indeed, being carried out? I know about the Americans having a 'Cyprus Affairs officer' in the State Department, but to deduce from that that the States are conspiring with the Brits day and night seems a bit far-fetched to me.
Please elaborate on your thinking here. Thanks!

I agree that is my personal opinion. We all have an opinion, and your opinion is respected. However the majority of people rejected the A plan in the referendum. Don't you think that this is something that should be respected by the rest? I have no problem with people saying that voting 'yes' was the right thing to do. What I have a problem with is when people disregard the expressed will of the majority and they side with our enemies to force on us what we clearly said we do not want.

I have a question here. How do you feel some of us 'Yes' supporters are disrespecting the will of the majority? Can you please give me an example or two of how we've done that?
Many have said that our 'No' does not mean no to a solution, but 'No' to the specific plan, so I take that as granted. What we are advocating is not the A-Plan's return, but its modification, in order to reach a solution as soon as possible. But T-Pap is stalling it. You might agree with his line of thinking for stalling, but I feel that his gamble isn't worth the returns it will give. I think it's a waste of time.
I would also like to say that I find your clarification concerning opinions very encouraging.

Can you tell me where that "right road" you think will lead? I see you are very optimistic, but do you believe that there is even one chance in a million that the TCs will voluntarily give up anything that they will gain from an agreement? If by "right road" you simply mean that the GCs will learn to live as a second category citizens with 1/4th voting rights etc and they will never dare to complain again because they will be scared of another invasion, this is not my kind of dream for a better future for me and my children and the road that leads to this is no good for me.

You got me wrong, I think.
What I named 'the right road' is not what you describe. In my mind, a solution (even a mediocre one, like Annan V) would force the two communities to work together, and bring back trust, once both have realized that there are no hidden agendas. Then, once this has been achieved (perhaps after many years), we can work on a 'real' solution together, instead of starting out from opposite sides, hoping to meet in the middle, like today. An example of this would be examining the 13 amendments Makarios proposed on the 1960 Constitution, excluding the 'dark' elements that shaped the TC reaction to them. I would think it would be far more likely to reach agreement on them, if the TCs weren't so suspicious of the real motives behind them.
I realize I haven't worded my argument in the best possible way, but I find it hard to do so. Do you see what I'm saying? If not, please let me know and I'll try to rephrase it.

[cannedmoose]

I second that. I totally agree with brother.

Thanks St. James, cheque's in the post man.

Kifeas, this is a very interesting topic to discuss.
Would you care to elaborate on the elements that lead you to believe that the above processes are, indeed, being carried out? I know about the Americans having a 'Cyprus Affairs officer' in the State Department, but to deduce from that that the States are conspiring with the Brits day and night seems a bit far-fetched to me.

I once read somewhere (read way too much on Cyprus, can't place anything any more!) that the reason for conspiracy-theories to be so adopted as truth in Cyprus is due to three factors:

1. A suspicion of foreigners, resulting from centuries of foreign domination and Cyprus' position as a small state in a hostile region;
2. Cypriots are generally convinced of their own importance to the rest of the world and thus believe that everyone must be talking about them all the time.
3. Insularity and smallness has resulted in an extremely effective 'jungle telegraph' in Cyprus, where gossip is quickly spread, embellished and ultimately accepted as truth by many participants.

Agreed that officials in other countries do discuss the Cyprus problem, but not on a daily basis (apart from desk officers, who often have other countries/regions to deal with as well), and they're hardly conspiring to bring about the downfall of the country.

I find the whole phenomenon of the Cypriot 'jungle telegraph' fascinating. Some of the rumours I've heard have been beyond belief, yet have been taken literally by the people I've heard it from. It reminds me of a similar phenomenon in the Gaza Strip. When I was there on an aid project, I wondered why some of the Palestinians around me were keeping their distance. When I asked one of my friends, it was because there is a widespread belief in the territory that all British people have AIDS. Apparently somebody had read it somewhere and it's become gospel

[brother]

Yep you Brits can't help spreading your disease where ever you go.

[cannedmoose]

Yep you Brits can't help spreading your disease where ever you go.

Wise-ass!

We're not called 'perfidious albion' for nothing Bro'

[Saint Jimmy]

Yep you Brits can't help spreading your disease where ever you go.

LOL!

Seriously, these three factors do make sense, at least to me. Obviously, a certain distinguished gentleman, Dr. Kissinger, hasn't been very helpful, in that respect.