Cyprus-Forum.com

[Get Real!]

I think he means the people of the country VP...You know...Like the two sovereign peoples of Cyprus..The GCs and the TCS...A generous offer I would say!!!

I know zan but with a 80 vs 20 split we dont stand a chance in hell.

You're absolutely right under a bi-zonal this and a bi-communal that, but under a democracy there is no such split.

[Murataga]

I think he means the people of the country VP...You know...Like the two sovereign peoples of Cyprus..The GCs and the TCS...A generous offer I would say!!!

I know zan but with a 80 vs 20 split we dont stand a chance in hell.

You're absolutely right under a bi-zonal this and a bi-communal that, but under a democracy there is no such split.

Than Turkey and Greece should unite and the citizens of the new state should be ruled as a nation of single people. After all, both are east Mediterranean as we are Cypriot and as you are asking that Cyprus should be ruled by the "nation of Cypriots" than you should also ask for the east Mediterranean to be ruled by the "nation of east Mediterraneans".

The fact is that essentially every country on the face of this planet has established its borders as a result of some military conflict. This is unfortunate but it is also the reality of the world in which we live in. As the two sides, TC and GC, who were at the brink of engaging in a clash of similar sort we made an agreement to avoid this tragedy in 1959. We agreed to establish a state under certain provisions that made sure that we do not step on our feet on communal affairs and guaranteed that neither side could enforce anything to the other against its will. You agreed to the provisions of this state in front of the whole world and it is specifically because you agreed to abide by its provisions that we signed into the RoC. The alternative was to go to war.

Your efforts to force us into becoming a nation, is nothing but a violation of our agreement and a violent assult on our rights. It is nothing different than Turkey attacking Greece to create a nation under a facade of promoting "democracy" in the eastern Mediterranean so the people of east Mediterranean are ruled by the majority. So I suggest you stop playing with words like "democracy" and "human rights" when all you are doing is violating international agreements to extend your sovereignity over others. The alternative to this is going through what Turey and Greece did at the time.

[Sotos]

so who is ...................... ???????????

Let me explain something to you in very simple terms. The Cypriots are currently held hostage by Turkey and their demands will be so great due to the fact that they do not want a solution as it is not in their interests. In the end we will have another unfair plan that the GCs can not accept.

I hope you are not asking us to capitulate to these demands which is tantamount to handing Cyprus on a platter to Turkey?

I am also thinking TC's and EU held hostage by ROC. Their one sided demands also so great that they don't want solution .TC's demand was very basic.
Bi-zonal ,bi-communal , politically equal ..... Guarantees of Turkey.

The demands of the Turks are very basic. They want to make Turkish the north part of our country. Is anybody here who stupid not to understand that all these Mongoloids want is this very basic thing? Turks are our enemies. They invaded our country and they don't want to give back what they took from us! Why some people can not understand that those thieves are our enemy and nothing more???? The solution is easy. They harm us, we harm them. Our job is to harm them as much as we can. Thats it. Because they will never agree to give us back the north part of our country.

[DT.]

I think he means the people of the country VP...You know...Like the two sovereign peoples of Cyprus..The GCs and the TCS...A generous offer I would say!!!

I know zan but with a 80 vs 20 split we dont stand a chance in hell.

You're absolutely right under a bi-zonal this and a bi-communal that, but under a democracy there is no such split.

Than Turkey and Greece should unite and the citizens of the new state should be ruled as a nation of single people. After all, both are east Mediterranean as we are Cypriot and as you are asking that Cyprus should be ruled by the "nation of Cypriots" than you should also ask for the east Mediterranean to be ruled by the "nation of east Mediterraneans".

The fact is that essentially every country on the face of this planet has established its borders as a result of some military conflict. This is unfortunate but it is also the reality of the world in which we live in. As the two sides, TC and GC, who were at the brink of engaging in a clash of similar sort we made an agreement to avoid this tragedy in 1959. We agreed to establish a state under certain provisions that made sure that we do not step on our feet on communal affairs and guaranteed that neither side could enforce anything to the other against its will. You agreed to the provisions of this state in front of the whole world and it is specifically because you agreed to abide by its provisions that we signed into the RoC. The alternative was to go to war.

Your efforts to force us into becoming a nation, is nothing but a violation of our agreement and a violent assult on our rights. It is nothing different than Turkey attacking Greece to create a nation under a facade of promoting "democracy" in the eastern Mediterranean so the people of east Mediterranean are ruled by the majority. So I suggest you stop playing with words like "democracy" and "human rights" when all you are doing is violating international agreements to extend your sovereignity over others. The alternative to this is going through what Turey and Greece did at the time.

Not a bad idea...off course you'd need Syria included in this nation of Eastern Med aong with ful voting rights for the Kurds. Methinks it would be a fair democracy. Wanna throw the Russians in as well?

[askimwos]

Halil,

bizonal, bicommunal federation and political equality is surely something that Christofias is prepared to agree to and made it public numerous times.

Gurantees by Turkey or any other nation in the form that Turkey is asking and Talat is promoting is surely a red line for the GC side. However, Christofias is prepared to negotiate this and hopefully fine the middle ground on this so as to create a win-win situation. Is Talat and Turkey prepared to do this? Are the TCs prepared to push their leadership towards this direction in order to agree to a solution? Lets wait and see...

They say that where there is will there is a way and there can be many scenarios and proposals as to how this stumping block can be overcome. How about creating a multinational force in order to oversee the implementation of the solution and guarantee the constitution of United Cyprus for say 30 years. Turkey, can be part of this multinational force which will have clear rules of engangement and will require say at least 50% of its member states to give the go ahead in the case that intervention is needed to restore the constitution. Isn't that enough? Why should Turkey have the right to intervene unilaterally and at will? We have seen this happen in the past and the last time I checked there were 6,000 dead and missing, hundreds raped and tortured and 160,000 refugees! You claim that you need to gurantee the sense of security for the TCs, what about that of your compatriots the GCs?
I bet that if you ask TCs in a poll whether they are prepared to accept the above proposal for the sake of a solution and a United Cyprus you will find out yourself that the great majoritywill vote for it.

Halil, we both know it that the guaratees thing is not for the sake of TCs. This demand comes straight from Turkey and all itserves is Turkey's interests. For god's sake, we are in the 21st century and Cyprus is a member of the EU, times have changed dramatically since the 60's and true independence is what brings stability and economic prosperity, not the creation of a protectorate.

[zan]

Halil,

bizonal, bicommunal federation and political equality is surely something that Christofias is prepared to agree to and made it public numerous times.

Gurantees by Turkey or any other nation in the form that Turkey is asking and Talat is promoting is surely a red line for the GC side. However, Christofias is prepared to negotiate this and hopefully fine the middle ground on this so as to create a win-win situation. Is Talat and Turkey prepared to do this? Are the TCs prepared to push their leadership towards this direction in order to agree to a solution? Lets wait and see...

They say that where there is will there is a way and there can be many scenarios and proposals as to how this stumping block can be overcome. How about creating a multinational force in order to oversee the implementation of the solution and guarantee the constitution of United Cyprus for say 30 years. Turkey, can be part of this multinational force which will have clear rules of engangement and will require say at least 50% of its member states to give the go ahead in the case that intervention is needed to restore the constitution. Isn't that enough? Why should Turkey have the right to intervene unilaterally and at will? We have seen this happen in the past and the last time I checked there were 6,000 dead and missing, hundreds raped and tortured and 160,000 refugees! You claim that you need to gurantee the sense of security for the TCs, what about that of your compatriots the GCs?
I bet that if you ask TCs in a poll whether they are prepared to accept the above proposal for the sake of a solution and a United Cyprus you will find out yourself that the great majoritywill vote for it.

Halil, we both know it that the guaratees thing is not for the sake of TCs. This demand comes straight from Turkey and all itserves is Turkey's interests. For god's sake, we are in the 21st century and Cyprus is a member of the EU, times have changed dramatically since the 60's and true independence is what brings stability and economic prosperity, not the creation of a protectorate.

Sorry askimwos but it is not just Turkey that wants that security but the TC people...Multinationals do not work as efficiently as they should...Isn't the UN just such an organisation that is being told on a daily basis that it does not do things as it should do. It wasn't that long ago that it stood by and watched as GCs killed TCs because it considered the slaughter an internal conflict.

I am glad that you have taken the time to alter the numbers of refugees but your number of 6,000 GCs killed by the TUrks needs revision. Many of those were killed by the Greeks in the coup. More and more proof of that is coming out every day.

[askimwos]

Zan, I was refering to the average, everyday TC, and you surely cannot be considered the average TC as a number of GC in here cannot be considered the average GC.

There are mulinational forces in Bosnia, Kosovo and Skopje today and I have not heart any of you complain about them not being able to keep peace. So Zan, please don't give me that crap about multinational forces not being able to avert "bloodshed"... At the end of the day what matters is REAL INDEPENDECE for both GCs and TCs.

[Murataga]

Zan, I was refering to the average, everyday TC, and you surely cannot be considered the average TC as a number of GC in here cannot be considered the average GC.

There are mulinational forces in Bosnia, Kosovo and Skopje today and I have not heart any of you complain about them not being able to keep peace. So Zan, please don't give me that crap about multinational forces not being able to avert "bloodshed"... At the end of the day what matters is REAL INDEPENDECE for both GCs and TCs.

I live in the TRNC and can assure you that the average TC wants Turkey`s guarantorship - and in fact we consider it a red line in any and all talks. It is absolutely amazing how out of touch the GCs are about what the TCs really want. What kind of propaganda are they feeding you with in the south?

The multinational force in Cyprus, UNIFCYP, prooved numerous times to be worthless in preventing the GC armed onslaught against the TCs when needed. I rigidly refuse to abandon the well-being and the safety of my people to some "multinational task force" or the GC leadership.

[zan]

Zan, I was refering to the average, everyday TC, and you surely cannot be considered the average TC as a number of GC in here cannot be considered the average GC.

There are mulinational forces in Bosnia, Kosovo and Skopje today and I have not heart any of you complain about them not being able to keep peace. So Zan, please don't give me that crap about multinational forces not being able to avert "bloodshed"... At the end of the day what matters is REAL INDEPENDECE for both GCs and TCs.

Do you know what happened in Bosnia????? You had better think again!!!

[halil]

IT LOOKS RİVERS WİLL NOT CALM


Christofias’ remarks against Turkey poisoning environment’

Turkish Cypriot leader Mehmet Ali Talat has harshly criticized Greek Cypriot leader Dimitris Christofias for his remarks targeting Ankara by calling on permanent members of the UN Security Council to put pressure on the Turkish government to change its policy on the Cyprus issue.

The polemic between the two leaders follows a landmark meeting of the two on March 21 when they agreed to restart stalled talks on reunifying the ethnically divided island. Talat and Christofias then agreed to meet again in three months to discuss reunification efforts. Aides have begun consultations on negotiation topics as part of preparations for the talks scheduled to take place in three months. Over the weekend, speaking at a memorial service, Christofias was quoted by Greek Cypriot media as saying: "[The Greek Cypriot people have] realized it was not at all easy to reverse the facts created by the invasion, the long-standing occupation and division of our homeland. We know that we are not dealing merely with our Turkish Cypriot compatriots."
Underlining the role of the international community, Christofias also noted: "More than ever, we need the international community to exert pressure on Turkey. Because, we repeat once again, that if Turkey does not alter its policy on Cyprus, the road for a solution will not open, in spite of the good will on our side."

Both the Turkish Cypriot Republic of Northern Cyprus (KKTC) and Turkey have exerted significant efforts to resolve the Cyprus issue and they do not have to prove these obvious efforts, Talat said in response, in remarks delivered to the Turkish News Agency-Cyprus (TAK) and the state-owned Bayrak Radio and Television (BRT).

The party which needs to prove its will for resolution and a change in its policy is the Greek Cypriot side, Talat added, while noting the fact that both the KKTC and Ankara at the time backed a UN-led reunification plan which was simultaneously voted on by the two sides of the divided island in 2004. The plan, however, became null and void after the Greek Cypriots rejected it shortly before entering the EU as official representatives of the entire island. Despite overwhelmingly supporting the plan, the Turkish Cypriots were left out without being granted EU rights.

"These kinds of statements serve nothing but to poison the environment," Talat said when asked about the probable impact of Christofias' remarks on the new process of reunifying the island.

"It should also not be ignored that Turkey -- whose role as an important actor in resolving the Cyprus issue cannot be denied -- could feel hurt, could even feel furious, if these kinds of approaches are repeated, although it is known that these are clearly wrong and lies," Talat said.

The four-decade-old Cyprus problem actually erupted after the eastern Mediterranean island was granted independence from Britain in 1960, soon followed by an outbreak of inter-communal clashes in 1963, the KKTC leader underlined, in response to Christofias, who described the Cyprus issue as "an issue of invasion," in apparent reference to the 1974 Turkish military intervention under the terms of the 1960 Treaty of Guarantee after diplomacy failed to end unrest on the island.


15.04.2008

Today's Zaman Ankara