Cyprus-Forum.com

[boomerang]

Here are some figures comparing , literacy , infant mortality and life expectancy between Turkey and Cyprus :
LITTERACY RATE INFANT MORTALITY LIFE EXPECTANCY.

TURKEY : 87% 38.3/1000 72.9

CYPRUS : 99% 6.89/1000 80.5

Here you have it , Shah was right in some respects. Turkey is way behind Cyprus in those areas that really can be used as criteria for measuring a nations standing in the world.
The Turks live an average of 7.5 years less than the Cypriots , their baby death rates are 38 per thousand as against 8 for Cyprus !
Turkey needs Europe to help combat these dreadful statistics that are almost as high as as those of the Middle East and North Africa.
We live longer in Cyprus by 7.5 years and we only have an infant mortality rate per 1000 live births of under 7 , bearing in mind that the world average is 55 , that of the UK is 5.01 , the USA 6.37 , Turkeys IMR at 38.3 is considerably higher. The Turkish politicians are no doubt familiar with these statistics and are naturally concerned in improving life in Turkey . EU membership for Turkey is crucial not only for Turkish people but for the Greeks and the Cypriots. Does Turkey have the vision and the will to continue its journey into the 21st century ?

Good post Miltiades,bravo.

It puts things into perspective. But I wouldn't hold my breath for Turkey, I really don't see and real changes any time soon. Sad.

Exactly the same things were said of Greece my lovely...I do love you people who live on sound bites from your own propaganda.......Tabloid brains for tabloid expectations...

You are correct...but here comes the but...The magic word here Zan old boy is were... when do you think "turkey=fascist state" will see the light?...in your own opiniion which century?

If it wasn't for the EU then you would still be living in your own shit Boomers...Turkey is getting there...Just because you did it first with the HELP of the EU doesn't mean you can now get on your high horse and mock others...Except for when it is political and you have a lot to gain from it that is.....But that is called sabotage!!!

Hey Zan, here is something even Talat didn't know...The RoC is a giver to the EU and has been from day one...Not a recipient...So what help are you talking about?

No IMF loans for starters...you would do well to know facts prior to saying hearsay

Yeh! Giver of a massive headache as in the CYprob...Many EU politicians and countries are regretting letting you in........Speaks volumes I think...

Please provide the links.

And I am not talking about small isolated referances. I request links where the whole EU has regretted the entry of Cyprus.

Watch zan bringing in if my grandmother had balls I would call grandfather

[Oracle]

If it wasn't for the EU then you would still be living in your own shit Boomers...Turkey is getting there...Just because you did it first with the HELP of the EU doesn't mean you can now get on your high horse and mock others...Except for when it is political and you have a lot to gain from it that is.....But that is called sabotage!!!

Hey Zan, here is something even Talat didn't know...The RoC is a giver to the EU and has been from day one...Not a recipient...So what help are you talking about?

No IMF loans for starters...you would do well to know facts prior to saying hearsay

Yeh! Giver of a massive headache as in the CYprob...Many EU politicians and countries are regretting letting you in........Speaks volumes I think...

This is news to me too ... so I would welcome those links from Zan ....

[zan]

Here are some figures comparing , literacy , infant mortality and life expectancy between Turkey and Cyprus :
LITTERACY RATE INFANT MORTALITY LIFE EXPECTANCY.

TURKEY : 87% 38.3/1000 72.9

CYPRUS : 99% 6.89/1000 80.5

Here you have it , Shah was right in some respects. Turkey is way behind Cyprus in those areas that really can be used as criteria for measuring a nations standing in the world.
The Turks live an average of 7.5 years less than the Cypriots , their baby death rates are 38 per thousand as against 8 for Cyprus !
Turkey needs Europe to help combat these dreadful statistics that are almost as high as as those of the Middle East and North Africa.
We live longer in Cyprus by 7.5 years and we only have an infant mortality rate per 1000 live births of under 7 , bearing in mind that the world average is 55 , that of the UK is 5.01 , the USA 6.37 , Turkeys IMR at 38.3 is considerably higher. The Turkish politicians are no doubt familiar with these statistics and are naturally concerned in improving life in Turkey . EU membership for Turkey is crucial not only for Turkish people but for the Greeks and the Cypriots. Does Turkey have the vision and the will to continue its journey into the 21st century ?

Good post Miltiades,bravo.

It puts things into perspective. But I wouldn't hold my breath for Turkey, I really don't see and real changes any time soon. Sad.

Exactly the same things were said of Greece my lovely...I do love you people who live on sound bites from your own propaganda.......Tabloid brains for tabloid expectations...

You are correct...but here comes the but...The magic word here Zan old boy is were... when do you think "turkey=fascist state" will see the light?...in your own opiniion which century?

If it wasn't for the EU then you would still be living in your own shit Boomers...Turkey is getting there...Just because you did it first with the HELP of the EU doesn't mean you can now get on your high horse and mock others...Except for when it is political and you have a lot to gain from it that is.....But that is called sabotage!!!

Hey Zan, here is something even Talat didn't know...The RoC is a giver to the EU and has been from day one...Not a recipient...So what help are you talking about?

No IMF loans for starters...you would do well to know facts prior to saying hearsay

Yeh! Giver of a massive headache as in the CYprob...Many EU politicians and countries are regretting letting you in........Speaks volumes I think...

Please provide the links.

And I am not talking about small isolated referances. I request links where the whole EU has regretted the entry of Cyprus.

Watch zan bringing in if my grandmother had balls I would call grandfather

No!! What I suggest is you boys going and reading some stuff before you come here to pst shit about things you know nothing about......You might even be as informed and as mature as Bananiot in the process....


have fun talking bollocks girls.....I am off to watch my son play rugby...Will be back later lovers...Byyyyyyeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[BirKibrisli]

I sometimes wonder what Turkey and the region would've looked like, politically and geographically,had the early Ottomans chosen Christianity instead of Islam as the state religion...

When you strip it down to the essentials,what is happening in Turkey today is a fight to the death between the educated, Westernised elite and the uneducated,Eastern-looking majority for political and economic power...

The westernised elite have the Military on their corner. The Easterners have God on theirs. Erdogan is using religion and democratic principles (which he neither understands nor respects) to advance the cause of his own side..The westerners who half-understand and half-respect Western-style democracy,have to depend on the threat of the military and the help of Deep-state run Judiciary to block the advance of the Easterners...To complicate the picture,the EU countries that presumable well-understand and well-respect democratic values are defending the rights of the Easterner to full democracy,knowing well that the first thing which will go should the Easterners have their way is secularism and democracy itself....The pity is,neither the Westerners nor the easterners are really concerned about the welfare of the people of Turkey...They see them as "idiots" (to borrow from Shah ) to be manipulated at election time,and given the mushroom threatment...(Kept in the dark and fed on bullshit-in this case, nationalist and religious bullshit respectively)...

The majority of these "idiots" are poor,hardworking,God-fearing,well-meaning individuals who have been let down badly by every government they have had since 1940s...This government or any alternative government will not be any different...The people of Turkey are cursed by their history,their geography,their religion,and their politicians...Limited democracy propped up by the Military is all we can expect in the foreseeable future...This is bad news to those who are putting all their eggs into the EU basket for a solution in Cyprus...It will never happen...

[Paphitis]

Here are some figures comparing , literacy , infant mortality and life expectancy between Turkey and Cyprus :
LITTERACY RATE INFANT MORTALITY LIFE EXPECTANCY.

TURKEY : 87% 38.3/1000 72.9

CYPRUS : 99% 6.89/1000 80.5

Here you have it , Shah was right in some respects. Turkey is way behind Cyprus in those areas that really can be used as criteria for measuring a nations standing in the world.
The Turks live an average of 7.5 years less than the Cypriots , their baby death rates are 38 per thousand as against 8 for Cyprus !
Turkey needs Europe to help combat these dreadful statistics that are almost as high as as those of the Middle East and North Africa.
We live longer in Cyprus by 7.5 years and we only have an infant mortality rate per 1000 live births of under 7 , bearing in mind that the world average is 55 , that of the UK is 5.01 , the USA 6.37 , Turkeys IMR at 38.3 is considerably higher. The Turkish politicians are no doubt familiar with these statistics and are naturally concerned in improving life in Turkey . EU membership for Turkey is crucial not only for Turkish people but for the Greeks and the Cypriots. Does Turkey have the vision and the will to continue its journey into the 21st century ?

Good post Miltiades,bravo.

It puts things into perspective. But I wouldn't hold my breath for Turkey, I really don't see and real changes any time soon. Sad.

Exactly the same things were said of Greece my lovely...I do love you people who live on sound bites from your own propaganda.......Tabloid brains for tabloid expectations...

You are correct...but here comes the but...The magic word here Zan old boy is were... when do you think "turkey=fascist state" will see the light?...in your own opiniion which century?

If it wasn't for the EU then you would still be living in your own shit Boomers...Turkey is getting there...Just because you did it first with the HELP of the EU doesn't mean you can now get on your high horse and mock others...Except for when it is political and you have a lot to gain from it that is.....But that is called sabotage!!!

Hey Zan, here is something even Talat didn't know...The RoC is a giver to the EU and has been from day one...Not a recipient...So what help are you talking about?

No IMF loans for starters...you would do well to know facts prior to saying hearsay

Yeh! Giver of a massive headache as in the CYprob...Many EU politicians and countries are regretting letting you in........Speaks volumes I think...

Please provide the links.

And I am not talking about small isolated referances. I request links where the whole EU has regretted the entry of Cyprus.

Watch zan bringing in if my grandmother had balls I would call grandfather

No!! What I suggest is you boys going and reading some stuff before you come here to pst shit about things you know nothing about......You might even be as informed and as mature as Bananiot in the process....


have fun talking bollocks girls.....I am off to watch my son play rugby...Will be back later lovers...Byyyyyyeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

What about those links? Oh wait, they do not exist right? And look who is talking aboout posting shit that we know nothing about.

Looks like you are unable to counter the truth and resort to posting lies and innuendo.

[boomerang]

Here are some figures comparing , literacy , infant mortality and life expectancy between Turkey and Cyprus :
LITTERACY RATE INFANT MORTALITY LIFE EXPECTANCY.

TURKEY : 87% 38.3/1000 72.9

CYPRUS : 99% 6.89/1000 80.5

Here you have it , Shah was right in some respects. Turkey is way behind Cyprus in those areas that really can be used as criteria for measuring a nations standing in the world.
The Turks live an average of 7.5 years less than the Cypriots , their baby death rates are 38 per thousand as against 8 for Cyprus !
Turkey needs Europe to help combat these dreadful statistics that are almost as high as as those of the Middle East and North Africa.
We live longer in Cyprus by 7.5 years and we only have an infant mortality rate per 1000 live births of under 7 , bearing in mind that the world average is 55 , that of the UK is 5.01 , the USA 6.37 , Turkeys IMR at 38.3 is considerably higher. The Turkish politicians are no doubt familiar with these statistics and are naturally concerned in improving life in Turkey . EU membership for Turkey is crucial not only for Turkish people but for the Greeks and the Cypriots. Does Turkey have the vision and the will to continue its journey into the 21st century ?

Good post Miltiades,bravo.

It puts things into perspective. But I wouldn't hold my breath for Turkey, I really don't see and real changes any time soon. Sad.

Exactly the same things were said of Greece my lovely...I do love you people who live on sound bites from your own propaganda.......Tabloid brains for tabloid expectations...

You are correct...but here comes the but...The magic word here Zan old boy is were... when do you think "turkey=fascist state" will see the light?...in your own opiniion which century?

If it wasn't for the EU then you would still be living in your own shit Boomers...Turkey is getting there...Just because you did it first with the HELP of the EU doesn't mean you can now get on your high horse and mock others...Except for when it is political and you have a lot to gain from it that is.....But that is called sabotage!!!

Hey Zan, here is something even Talat didn't know...The RoC is a giver to the EU and has been from day one...Not a recipient...So what help are you talking about?

No IMF loans for starters...you would do well to know facts prior to saying hearsay

Yeh! Giver of a massive headache as in the CYprob...Many EU politicians and countries are regretting letting you in........Speaks volumes I think...

Please provide the links.

And I am not talking about small isolated referances. I request links where the whole EU has regretted the entry of Cyprus.

Watch zan bringing in if my grandmother had balls I would call grandfather

No!! What I suggest is you boys going and reading some stuff before you come here to pst shit about things you know nothing about......You might even be as informed and as mature as Bananiot in the process....


have fun talking bollocks girls.....I am off to watch my son play rugby...Will be back later lovers...Byyyyyyeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

What about those links? Oh wait, they do not exist right? And look who is talking aboout posting shit that we know nothing about.

Looks like you are unable to counter the truth and resort to posting lies and innuendo.

Just you wait his grandmother and her balls will come out soon...

Anyway Zan I hope your son's team wins...Good luck to him...

[BirKibrisli]

I sometimes wonder what Turkey and the region would've looked like, politically and geographically,had the early Ottomans chosen Christianity instead of Islam as the state religion...

When you strip it down to the essentials,what is happening in Turkey today is a fight to the death between the educated, Westernised elite and the uneducated,Eastern-looking majority for political and economic power...

The westernised elite have the Military on their corner. The Easterners have God on theirs. Erdogan is using religion and democratic principles (which he neither understands nor respects) to advance the cause of his own side..The westerners who half-understand and half-respect Western-style democracy,have to depend on the threat of the military and the help of Deep-state run Judiciary to block the advance of the Easterners...To complicate the picture,the EU countries that presumable well-understand and well-respect democratic values are defending the rights of the Easterner to full democracy,knowing well that the first thing which will go should the Easterners have their way is secularism and democracy itself....The pity is,neither the Westerners nor the easterners are really concerned about the welfare of the people of Turkey...They see them as "idiots" (to borrow from Shah ) to be manipulated at election time,and given the mushroom threatment...(Kept in the dark and fed on bullshit-in this case, nationalist and religious bullshit respectively)...

The majority of these "idiots" are poor,hardworking,God-fearing,well-meaning individuals who have been let down badly by every government they have had since 1940s...This government or any alternative government will not be any different...The people of Turkey are cursed by their history,their geography,their religion,and their politicians...Limited democracy propped up by the Military is all we can expect in the foreseeable future...This is bad news to those who are putting all their eggs into the EU basket for a solution in Cyprus...It will never happen...

Sorry,but I am reposting this for fear that it might get lost in between all those gigantic quote-happy one or two liners....

[miltiades]

I sometimes wonder what Turkey and the region would've looked like, politically and geographically,had the early Ottomans chosen Christianity instead of Islam as the state religion...

When you strip it down to the essentials,what is happening in Turkey today is a fight to the death between the educated, Westernised elite and the uneducated,Eastern-looking majority for political and economic power...

The westernised elite have the Military on their corner. The Easterners have God on theirs. Erdogan is using religion and democratic principles (which he neither understands nor respects) to advance the cause of his own side..The westerners who half-understand and half-respect Western-style democracy,have to depend on the threat of the military and the help of Deep-state run Judiciary to block the advance of the Easterners...To complicate the picture,the EU countries that presumable well-understand and well-respect democratic values are defending the rights of the Easterner to full democracy,knowing well that the first thing which will go should the Easterners have their way is secularism and democracy itself....The pity is,neither the Westerners nor the easterners are really concerned about the welfare of the people of Turkey...They see them as "idiots" (to borrow from Shah ) to be manipulated at election time,and given the mushroom threatment...(Kept in the dark and fed on bullshit-in this case, nationalist and religious bullshit respectively)...

The majority of these "idiots" are poor,hardworking,God-fearing,well-meaning individuals who have been let down badly by every government they have had since 1940s...This government or any alternative government will not be any different...The people of Turkey are cursed by their history,their geography,their religion,and their politicians...Limited democracy propped up by the Military is all we can expect in the foreseeable future...This is bad news to those who are putting all their eggs into the EU basket for a solution in Cyprus...It will never happen...

Sorry,but I am reposting this for fear that it might get lost in between all those gigantic quote-happy one or two liners....

I agree by most of what you have posted , but being a natural optimist and a firm believer that progress is far more a potent force than either religion or nationalism in the long term , I think Turkey will choose progress and the way forward is undoubtedly through Europe. I believe that in the next 10 to 15 years Turkey will be a European member and will
be reluctantly requested to adhere to the European principles and directives.
The Turkish educated classes are to the best of my knowledge pro army pro secularists and pro European , they will win the day and the rise of fundamentalist ideas Will be curtailed, how its another question.

[Nikitas]

Bir said:

"The people of Turkey are cursed by their history,their geography,their religion,and their politicians...Limited democracy propped up by the Military is all we can expect in the foreseeable future..."

That is how things looked for Greece and RoC in 1974, then the disaster happened and nothing forces a nation to mature faster than a disaster. It is unthinkable in Greece today to think of a military dictatorship or any influence by the military in politics.

I am not advocating a disaster for Turkey but things are moving towards a crisis.

Basing the life and development of a nation of 80 million on the ideas of one man, which have turned into a quasi religion is like a plaster cast on national life. The longer this goes on the more drastic the crisis will be. Kemalism has served it purpose, things have changed since 1923, but the outward shell of Kemalism has remained, hijacked by the army and opportunists who use it to keep the nation under control. Some, like Shah, above rationalise this control using the excuse of the people's ignorance or religiosity to justify the army's role as protector of Kemalist principles and the secular state.

The only way out is democracy in its full meaning, which goes way beyond Kemalism. Nothing can equal the sovereignty of the people as a foundation of a state.

[zan]

I sometimes wonder what Turkey and the region would've looked like, politically and geographically,had the early Ottomans chosen Christianity instead of Islam as the state religion...

When you strip it down to the essentials,what is happening in Turkey today is a fight to the death between the educated, Westernised elite and the uneducated,Eastern-looking majority for political and economic power...

The westernised elite have the Military on their corner. The Easterners have God on theirs. Erdogan is using religion and democratic principles (which he neither understands nor respects) to advance the cause of his own side..The westerners who half-understand and half-respect Western-style democracy,have to depend on the threat of the military and the help of Deep-state run Judiciary to block the advance of the Easterners...To complicate the picture,the EU countries that presumable well-understand and well-respect democratic values are defending the rights of the Easterner to full democracy,knowing well that the first thing which will go should the Easterners have their way is secularism and democracy itself....The pity is,neither the Westerners nor the easterners are really concerned about the welfare of the people of Turkey...They see them as "idiots" (to borrow from Shah ) to be manipulated at election time,and given the mushroom threatment...(Kept in the dark and fed on bullshit-in this case, nationalist and religious bullshit respectively)...

The majority of these "idiots" are poor,hardworking,God-fearing,well-meaning individuals who have been let down badly by every government they have had since 1940s...This government or any alternative government will not be any different...The people of Turkey are cursed by their history,their geography,their religion,and their politicians...Limited democracy propped up by the Military is all we can expect in the foreseeable future...This is bad news to those who are putting all their eggs into the EU basket for a solution in Cyprus...It will never happen...

Sorry,but I am reposting this for fear that it might get lost in between all those gigantic quote-happy one or two liners....

I agree by most of what you have posted , but being a natural optimist and a firm believer that progress is far more a potent force than either religion or nationalism in the long term , I think Turkey will choose progress and the way forward is undoubtedly through Europe. I believe that in the next 10 to 15 years Turkey will be a European member and will
be reluctantly requested to adhere to the European principles and directives.
The Turkish educated classes are to the best of my knowledge pro army pro secularists and pro European , they will win the day and the rise of fundamentalist ideas Will be curtailed, how its another question.

I am glad that we agree on one thing at least Miltiades......Bir seems to forget that Greece went through wars against communism to get where it is today...Albeit a racist one.....But has no faith in the Turkish people ever becoming or having ever been a respectable people...In stead we should sell out to the cheapest bidder in self disgust and disillusionment. Luckily some of us will stay and fight the fight that is needed for such reforms which include dissidents from all over the region.....