Cyprus-Forum.com

[Oracle]

I looked at the title and said, hey thats a good change. But I see that, I shouldn't have kept the hopes too high. I agree with Shah on the comment if not a majority a very high percentage of the population is as shah says.

... then prepare for xxNilxx giving you a bollocking too

[zan]

I looked at the title and said, hey thats a good change. But I see that, I shouldn't have kept the hopes too high. I agree with Shah on the comment if not a majority a very high percentage of the population is as shah says.

Umit old chap, the rest of the world and I expect more of you than this. You are trying to defend the indefensible. This goes far, far beyond our little squabble in Cy. Shah's comments strike at the very heart of some values that I for one hold very dearly, that is, amongst other things, that all people are created equal and have every right to live as equals, irrespective of their colour, gender, sexuality, IQ, wealth etc. etc.

Shah's comments are of the sort that, if they go unchallenged, starts us off on the road to the death camps of the Nazis.


I beg you Umit, look and think again of what has been written and condemn it.

Bill if you took the word "idoit" out would it make you better?

What Shah and I are trying to say that is that democracy is not just casting a vote every once and a while. Religion is Turkey is now being used a tool of preasure in politics , the AKP party and Erdogan are a bunch of bloodsuckers who don't give a shit about the country their only aim is to use religion as a tool to keep control. There are many people in Turkey whose only wish is to be able to put bread on the table and nothing else, they aren't in a position to give a shit about anything else and this is just sad. Hence democracy cannot function properly in this sort of environment. When you look at the stuff that goes on during election time just to get the votes it's crazy, you see trucks full of wheat and rice ( whose expiry dates have passed) being delivered to poor suburbs or even sacks of coal being given out in the middle of summer!! How can you expect a true democrasy with people that sell their votes for a sack of rice. Don't get me wrong I'm NOT blaming the people it's all the goverments fault for never being able to sustain such a large rapidly fast growing population. Turkey has an odd way of working, the separation of power has been distributed in a way which is all too interlocked with each other. The army has also seen itself as the last defence in keeping a secular state they have intervened in politics to an extent of evn hanging a prime-minister . Yet the people see the most trustworthy institution in the whole country as the army. Turkey needs to scrap all the religous bullshit and try to maintain a strong middle class, on paper Turkey seems to be economically growing fast but it ain't the guy on the street getting rich. In just 5 years the number of billionaries in TUrkey has increased from 8 to 22, but the people have gotten poorer.

I hope you understand what we are trying to say.

Yes Umit, absolutely. Good of you to take idiot out. What about poor and uneducated? Are we to think less of a fellow human being because he /she is poor or uneducated?

Religion and Turkey - I know next to nothing about Turkey (outside Cyprus). I know a little about Gallipoli, the wars with the Greeks, the rise of Kemal Ataturk (may he rest in peace and I hope I have spelt his name correctly) and the importance to many, many of the good people of Turkey of his secularism. The problem I have is that (and I think Bir spoke of it earlier today or yesterday ) democracy cannot be enforced by a huge military machine. The two are incompatible and contradictory. In real terms, so far all I have seen seen of this religious ruling party in Turkey is the lifting of the ban on headscarves in schools.

As to the "free food if you vote for me" issue that you raise, well it happens even in the most mature democracies, it's just a bit more subtle so that , for instance, the ruling party here in GB may not want to lose votes in my (marginal) area by closing down the local hospital.

Coming back to the army thing, Turkey doesn't need an army of (what) a million troops to oppose foreign threats. The Generals of the Turkish army need it, more than the good people of Turkey. What Turkey needs is a continuation of its economic growth, more jobs, better paid workers, more schools to educate people all of which will lead to a ( if you don't mind my saying so) a real democracy for when people have money in their pockets, a decent health service and a decent education, they are less likely (imho) to be influenced by the religious extremists.

What did Margaret Thatcher use to make sure democracy succeeded in the UK with the minors strikes...OH YEH! LOVE What did the GCs use to enforce their unique form of democracy on the TCs in 1963.......LOVE????..NO!!!...A fucking great army from Greece....

[miltiades]

Here are some figures comparing , literacy , infant mortality and life expectancy between Turkey and Cyprus :
LITTERACY RATE INFANT MORTALITY LIFE EXPECTANCY.

TURKEY : 87% 38.3/1000 72.9

CYPRUS : 99% 6.89/1000 80.5

Here you have it , Shah was right in some respects. Turkey is way behind Cyprus in those areas that really can be used as criteria for measuring a nations standing in the world.
The Turks live an average of 7.5 years less than the Cypriots , their baby death rates are 38 per thousand as against 8 for Cyprus !
Turkey needs Europe to help combat these dreadful statistics that are almost as high as as those of the Middle East and North Africa.
We live longer in Cyprus by 7.5 years and we only have an infant mortality rate per 1000 live births of under 7 , bearing in mind that the world average is 55 , that of the UK is 5.01 , the USA 6.37 , Turkeys IMR at 38.3 is considerably higher. The Turkish politicians are no doubt familiar with these statistics and are naturally concerned in improving life in Turkey . EU membership for Turkey is crucial not only for Turkish people but for the Greeks and the Cypriots. Does Turkey have the vision and the will to continue its journey into the 21st century ?

[pantheman]

Here are some figures comparing , literacy , infant mortality and life expectancy between Turkey and Cyprus :
LITTERACY RATE INFANT MORTALITY LIFE EXPECTANCY.

TURKEY : 87% 38.3/1000 72.9

CYPRUS : 99% 6.89/1000 80.5

Here you have it , Shah was right in some respects. Turkey is way behind Cyprus in those areas that really can be used as criteria for measuring a nations standing in the world.
The Turks live an average of 7.5 years less than the Cypriots , their baby death rates are 38 per thousand as against 8 for Cyprus !
Turkey needs Europe to help combat these dreadful statistics that are almost as high as as those of the Middle East and North Africa.
We live longer in Cyprus by 7.5 years and we only have an infant mortality rate per 1000 live births of under 7 , bearing in mind that the world average is 55 , that of the UK is 5.01 , the USA 6.37 , Turkeys IMR at 38.3 is considerably higher. The Turkish politicians are no doubt familiar with these statistics and are naturally concerned in improving life in Turkey . EU membership for Turkey is crucial not only for Turkish people but for the Greeks and the Cypriots. Does Turkey have the vision and the will to continue its journey into the 21st century ?

Good post Miltiades,bravo.

It puts things into perspective. But I wouldn't hold my breath for Turkey, I really don't see and real changes any time soon. Sad.

[boomerang]

So in short who is to blame for turning a poor uneducated idiots in a country?...and this is the million dollar question?

Are they themselves, people, to blame?...or the state that is suppose to look after them?

Education is the key here people..."turkey=fascist state" should be investing highly in this direction and not the deep state investing by signing billions upon billions in a war machine...billions upon billions she really ain't got in the first place, bankrupting the country...with reliance to the IMF project, making her the 2nd highest recepient to this very day...a shameful act...

"turkey=fascist state" is a NATO member and she does not require to be signing billions upon billions of war machine projects...

[Paphitis]

So in short who is to blame for turning a poor uneducated idiots in a country?...and this is the million dollar question?

Are they themselves, people, to blame?...or the state that is suppose to look after them?

Education is the key here people..."turkey=fascist state" should be investing highly in this direction and not the deep state investing by signing billions upon billions in a war machine...billions upon billions she really ain't got in the first place, bankrupting the country...with reliance to the IMF project, making her the 2nd highest recepient to this very day...a shameful act...

"turkey=fascist state" is a NATO member and she does not require to be signing billions upon billions of war machine projects...

Very little differance between Turkey and Iraq under Saddam. Just like Iraq which was ruled by a despot, Turkey too is run by a group of despots (the Generals of the Turkish Army). They spend billions on arms and do not care about their own citizens by spending on health and education. What a sad example of a nation which is trying to join the EU no less. I feel so sorry for the majority who Shah descibes as the "uneducated idiots". One day the majority referred to by Shah as the uneducated idiots will revolutionize and claim their rights. They will claim their rights for a better health and education system and turn Turkey into a modern real democracy where health and education is a higher priority than the military. Then and only then will Turkey mature and be fit for EU entry, provided that they withdraw from Cyprus as well.

Thanks for the statistics Miltiades. My only hope is that the ultra nationalists on this forum take note and change their mentality. The life span and education of their children depends on it. The plight of the majority in Turkey is a disgrace and is so sad. One could say that it is a violation of human rights. Spending billions upon billions on military hardware when at the same time Turkey has a hight illiteracy rate, lower life expectancy due to inadequate education and health system.

[zan]

Here are some figures comparing , literacy , infant mortality and life expectancy between Turkey and Cyprus :
LITTERACY RATE INFANT MORTALITY LIFE EXPECTANCY.

TURKEY : 87% 38.3/1000 72.9

CYPRUS : 99% 6.89/1000 80.5

Here you have it , Shah was right in some respects. Turkey is way behind Cyprus in those areas that really can be used as criteria for measuring a nations standing in the world.
The Turks live an average of 7.5 years less than the Cypriots , their baby death rates are 38 per thousand as against 8 for Cyprus !
Turkey needs Europe to help combat these dreadful statistics that are almost as high as as those of the Middle East and North Africa.
We live longer in Cyprus by 7.5 years and we only have an infant mortality rate per 1000 live births of under 7 , bearing in mind that the world average is 55 , that of the UK is 5.01 , the USA 6.37 , Turkeys IMR at 38.3 is considerably higher. The Turkish politicians are no doubt familiar with these statistics and are naturally concerned in improving life in Turkey . EU membership for Turkey is crucial not only for Turkish people but for the Greeks and the Cypriots. Does Turkey have the vision and the will to continue its journey into the 21st century ?

Good post Miltiades,bravo.

It puts things into perspective. But I wouldn't hold my breath for Turkey, I really don't see and real changes any time soon. Sad.

Exactly the same things were said of Greece my lovely...I do love you people who live on sound bites from your own propaganda.......Tabloid brains for tabloid expectations...

[zan]

So in short who is to blame for turning a poor uneducated idiots in a country?...and this is the million dollar question?

Are they themselves, people, to blame?...or the state that is suppose to look after them?

Education is the key here people..."turkey=fascist state" should be investing highly in this direction and not the deep state investing by signing billions upon billions in a war machine...billions upon billions she really ain't got in the first place, bankrupting the country...with reliance to the IMF project, making her the 2nd highest recepient to this very day...a shameful act...

"turkey=fascist state" is a NATO member and she does not require to be signing billions upon billions of war machine projects...

The Greek boy made it good and now wants to pull up the ladder..... Still racism goes on in Greece today but education seems to be lacking there also

[boomerang]

Here are some figures comparing , literacy , infant mortality and life expectancy between Turkey and Cyprus :
LITTERACY RATE INFANT MORTALITY LIFE EXPECTANCY.

TURKEY : 87% 38.3/1000 72.9

CYPRUS : 99% 6.89/1000 80.5

Here you have it , Shah was right in some respects. Turkey is way behind Cyprus in those areas that really can be used as criteria for measuring a nations standing in the world.
The Turks live an average of 7.5 years less than the Cypriots , their baby death rates are 38 per thousand as against 8 for Cyprus !
Turkey needs Europe to help combat these dreadful statistics that are almost as high as as those of the Middle East and North Africa.
We live longer in Cyprus by 7.5 years and we only have an infant mortality rate per 1000 live births of under 7 , bearing in mind that the world average is 55 , that of the UK is 5.01 , the USA 6.37 , Turkeys IMR at 38.3 is considerably higher. The Turkish politicians are no doubt familiar with these statistics and are naturally concerned in improving life in Turkey . EU membership for Turkey is crucial not only for Turkish people but for the Greeks and the Cypriots. Does Turkey have the vision and the will to continue its journey into the 21st century ?

Good post Miltiades,bravo.

It puts things into perspective. But I wouldn't hold my breath for Turkey, I really don't see and real changes any time soon. Sad.

Exactly the same things were said of Greece my lovely...I do love you people who live on sound bites from your own propaganda.......Tabloid brains for tabloid expectations...

You are correct...but here comes the but...The magic word here Zan old boy is were... when do you think "turkey=fascist state" will see the light?...in your own opiniion which century?

Personally I would welcome such a change...the population more than deserves it...wouldn't you agree?

[Oracle]

Miltiades post speaks for itself ... just how much Turkey needs to concentrate on improving the quality of life of its people.

How can it improve that quality of life?

Abandoning invading / occupying other countries would be a start ... leaving it to concentrate on internal matters.

Reducing its Military Might would do it a lot of favours ... leave it stronger not weaker.

They would then have the required revenue to invest in schools and hospitals.

It already possesses potential .... it does not need Europe to help financially.