BirKibrisli wrote:Murataga wrote:BirKibrisli wrote:zan wrote:BirKibrisli wrote:shahmaran wrote:That's funny Bir, because when Buyukanit AND Erdogan openly state that the army will gradually retreat once a lasting solution has been found, no one takes them seriously, but when certain high ranking officers come to the island everyone can quickly read all sorts of messages from their actions alone.
There is no winning with you people and your prejudices.
Could that be because we know what we are talking about?
That we are amazed that as soon as some new hope arises for a solution in Cyprus, the present Chief and the future Chief-of-staff of the Turkish Army rush over to tell us what is and what is not acceptable???
Could it be that ,living in a democratic country,some of us are totally bewildered what gives these generals the power to dictate foreign and international affairs policy to their own civilian government??? Let alone a "foreign" so-called government!!!
Can I just ask what you think Tpap is doing at the moment Bir????What is going on in the South do you think???.........Do you really believe that he is out of the picture and this whole thing with reunification is going to go smoothly with no tricks???......
You asked me to ask the GCs to return to the Zurich agreement and I have been doing so since then....Have you seen any changes that reinforce your views that they are happy to do so????......
They have Greece on their side and we have Turkey.....What the army are saying is that we are in these talks as equals and without the that recognition then the talks are starting off on the wrong foot. We are not asking for some Greek land but for part of our own country and a part in our own countries running. The whole point of their side is to show that we are the underdogs in the whole affair and the Turkish army are saying, WE are saying, that we are not...We are equals and that is that.
You really need to sort yourself out with this hate you have...It has been a long time since you got burned......Time to move on...As you keep reminding others...Except yours is personal!!!!!!
You got me all wrong,Zan...I do not hate anyone. I love my people, the Turkish Cypriots,and want them to survive and thrive...You are right about Papadop and right about the invitation to return to the London and Zurich agreements...But you are wrong about Turkey being on our side. Turkey is on her own side,using us as bait to advance her own interests...I know it is difficult to admit this for most of you. Some of you even truly believe that Turkey is looking after our interests...But if you look closely at what is happening in Cyprus,you will see that TCs have been stripped off everything,and are being treated as idiotic pests who must be tolerated for the time being...As I said to my reply to Kikapu the only thing that will save us is a return to the True Republic of Cyprus as founded in 1960...
Our GC cousins however are hell bent on keeping us out,and hence they are also digging their own graves...Turkey in the foreseeable future will be the dominant force in the region,and America will not hesitate to throw the GCs to the wolves if and when it comes to a showdown with the mighty and American-friendly Turkish Army...The worse for Cypriots is yet to come,my dear friend...
I see no need to reiterate our obvious ties to Turkey on historical, cultural and ethnic aspects.... But let`s leave all of that aside for the sake of the conversation:
I think you have a convoluted perception of international relations. There is nothing wrong or unethical about a country looking after her interests and any TC with a minimal awareness of the realities on foreign affairs knows perfectly well that Turkey is here for her interests. What you fail to grasp is that those interests and associated objectives align perfectly with ours` as Turkish Cypriots:
(1) Absolute assurance of our safe and secure existence on this island with our true identity as Turkish Cypriots
(2) Prevention of ENOSIS
(3) Prevention of the Hellenization of the island.
The bottom line is that we want what they want, and they want what we want. The rest is bs...
This is where you are wrong,Murataga....They want what they want and we want what they want too...
Well, when we want what they want, than what they want becomes what we want, so no problem here as far as I am concerned. And make no mistake about it the majority of the TCs want:
(1) Absolute assurance of our safe and secure existence on this island with our true identity as Turkish Cypriots
(2) Prevention of ENOSIS
(3) Prevention of the complete Hellenization of the island.
BirKibrisli wrote:Please think about this again...How can we live as Turkish Cypriots when we are already outnumbered at least 2 to one by the settlers...Our political power and will totally subjugated. Our dialect extinguished,our tradtions and customs made irrelevant,our culture assimilated...If all is rosy in the trnc,then why are the children of most Turkish Cypriots are going abroad for study (mostly to the USA) and never coming back...???
Firstly, there is nothing wrong about country inviting/hosting immigrants. This is economically, politically and strategically a methodology for moving forward in many countries (with the U.S.A. leading them) around the world and it is an absolute necessity for the TRNC given our special circumstances.
Secondly, as a person who has attended graduate school in the U.S.A., I can confidently tell you that thousands of people every year from around the world (including many of European heritage) get and education in the U.S. and choose to stay there afterwards. The root causes of this phenomenon are numerous and often much more complicated than what you try to make it sound above.
But since you brought it up: I would be very interested to compare the statistics of the return rate of TCs educated abroad once the embargo is lifted – an embargo which you know very well started way before the TRNC was established and way before 1974.
BirKibrisli wrote:Enosis has been prevented.Or it has been achieved anyway via the EU,depending on your point of view...And it has been achieved by the TCs via the trnc,if you look at it that way...Enosis is dead and buried,except in the heads of those who want to use it as an excuse to justify their own actions...
Surely you appreciate the difference in the limited privileges of the GCs being in the EU and Cyprus becoming a province of Greece. All in all, you are more than welcomed to look at it from whichever angle you like. The bottom line is that Cyprus is not Greece. And most importantly this is not because the GCs woke up one morning and preferred independence over being the subjects of Greece, but because we made it impossible for them with the stiff resistance that we put up as the TCs, period.
BirKibrisli wrote:Prevention of Hellenism???? That is one thing that no power on earth can achieve...The overwhelming majority of Cypriots are ethnically Hellenic. You cannot bannish Hellenism unless you banish 80% of Cypriots from their own country. But what is so evil about Hellenism??? Why can't we live and let live??? Why can't we live with Hellenism as long as they are prepared to live with our ethnic Turkish roots??? Are we not capable,at the beginning of the 21st Century,to see our differences as richness instead of as threats...Is that it??? ARe Cypriots not capable of learning from their past mistakes??? Are we not capable of forgiving our past misdeeds??? Are our hearts closed to compassion and tolerance??? Are we so primitive as human beings in your opinion???
Yes, prevention of the complete Hellenization of Cyprus and yes it has been achieved by the TCs. The only Hellenic part of Cyprus is those members of the GC COMMUNITY and it is we the TCs that are making sure it stays that way. Cyprus is as Hellenic as you wish to argue that the EU is German and French. And contrary to what you contemplate, I sincerely believe that it is this precise framework that is upholding the rich cultural identity of Cyprus: uniquely preserving both TC and GC existence and not placing one over the other’s sovereignty/administration. Unlike what you are suggesting I have nothing against Hellenism and I have no intention to banish it in any way. However, I will prevent its ideology/principles and political aspirations from getting exerted over my people and the island being completely administered by those who identify themselves as affiliates of Hellenism.
