Cyprus-Forum.com

[denizaksulu]

birkibrisli,
my aim is here to show the forum members what is the positions of the sides at the present condition . it looks you have missed what Disi leader and Soyer said as well.
it looks the solution will be based on Bi-communal , bi-zonal state solution . Guarantees also be on the table . so far Yakavu and Nami agreed on 23 working groups . Soon we will learn the groups content as well . Both sides have to inform their public kibrisli. hiding or hijacking the agreements will not work . at the end we can have referendum again .
they have to tell the people truth otherwise we will have second annan plan shock.

23 working groups????? My God!!!! How long do they think we can wait for a solution???

This reminds me of a cheeky definition I read somewhere....A working-group is the meeting of some self-important people who,singly,can do nothing,but together can decide that nothing can be done...

I do hope they prove the definition wrong...

below was short news at 2 pm today.
SENIOR AIDES OF TWO LEADERS IN CYPRUS MEET AGAIN AT LEDRA PALACE HOTEL.
Senior aides of the two leaders in Cyprus will meet again this afternoon to continue their fork on the establishment of experts’ working groups and technical committees.
Ozdil Nami and Greek Cypriot Leader Dimitris Christofias’ adviser Yorgos Yakovu will meet at 3 o’clock at the Ledra Palace Hotel in the UN-controlled buffer zone in Lefkosa.
The two men aim to conclude their work on the setting of the agendas of the working groups and technical committees by the end of the week-end.

Somehow I don't feel entirely safe with George "I just want to sleep" Iacovou handling our side.

DT, we turkified his name as well..... now time is coming for your name ..... your one will be ....... ??????

Dementia Tremensis

[Nikitas]

An agreement is a contract of sorts, and in a contract both sides are equal, otherwise the deal is flawed. Here we have a situation where two sides negotiate, but the strongest player in the game is refusing to take part in the process, it just sends in a general now and again to warn everyone else that the deal they reach must conform to the strongest guy's wishes. Then people here talk about equality, power sharing and all kinds of pretentious stuff.

How can Talat negotiate in such a situation! Obviously he wants to, but he can't. He has to satisfy others and not the TCs.

[zan]

An agreement is a contract of sorts, and in a contract both sides are equal, otherwise the deal is flawed. Here we have a situation where two sides negotiate, but the strongest player in the game is refusing to take part in the process, it just sends in a general now and again to warn everyone else that the deal they reach must conform to the strongest guy's wishes. Then people here talk about equality, power sharing and all kinds of pretentious stuff.

How can Talat negotiate in such a situation! Obviously he wants to, but he can't. He has to satisfy others and not the TCs.

The sooner you accept that there are four players in this issue the better!!!

[Big Al]

Ladies and Gents,
The TSK has been on Cyprus for over 30 years protecting TC's and their interests, the fact that there are generals arriving in Cyprus is no suprise. These generals are the same people that have been protecting us, and by visiting cyprus during these times is merely on a consluting basis, they are there to ensure as they always have that TC's are protected now and in the future, should there be a resolution to the Cyprus problem. Their visits obviously arent welcome by the CG administration as it is a reminder to them that at the negotiating table, they may have greater negotiating power against TC but not against Turkey...it ensures equality through the negotiation process.
Welcome General Buyukanit and Basbug...Hos geldiniz!!!!!

[Eric dayi]

This from Nikitas is typical proof of Greek Cypriot shedding crocodile tears, lying and creating myths everyone is talking about.

An agreement is a contract of sorts, and in a contract both sides are equal, otherwise the deal is flawed.

That very, very strong coming from a Greek Cypriot who forcefully tore up the 1960 agreement and forced us TCs out of government and in to enclaves.

Here we have a situation where two sides negotiate, but the strongest player in the game is refusing to take part in the process, it just sends in a general now and again to warn everyone else that the deal they reach must conform to the strongest guy's wishes. Then people here talk about equality, power sharing and all kinds of pretentious stuff.

In 1963 you GCs being the "stronger player" tried very hard to take away our human rights and force us to accept your ENOSIS dream but when we refused you tried to genocide us. Even now you try to force us TCs to accept you are the majority and the "stronger player" and demand that we take a back seat as second class minority but now that the shoe is on the other foot and it hurts you like hell you have the fecking cheek to complain and shed your crocodile tears.

How can Talat negotiate in such a situation! Obviously he wants to, but he can't. He has to satisfy others and not the TCs.

Turkey wants what we TCs also want so Talat will do what he is told by us and nothing else if he wants to be re-elected again.

Nikitas, you are another idiot who shits in his own garden and then complains about the stink.

[BirKibrisli]

COMING less than two weeks after a three-day visit to the north of the island by the Turkish military Chief of Staff Yasar Buyukanit, the arrival in Cyprus yesterday of the Commander of the Turkish Army Ilker Basbug has raised questions about the Turkish military’s view of a recent thaw in relations between the Greek and Turkish Cypriot communities.

The answer is blindingly simple...The Generals want to remind Talat and the world who is calling the shots in any possible solution...The message is,"don't raise your hopes too high,don't think you are going to come to an agreement the Turkish Army would not approve beforehand!"...


http://www.cyprus-mail.com/news/main.php?id=38614

Welcome back Bir.

It's funny how I don't hear all the NeoPartionist defending the Generals positions. They have all lost their tongues it seems. It must be the shock of being embarrassed and shown to be liars by the Turkish Generals. Since I've been on the forum, the NeoPartitonist kept on complaining why PapaD should deal with Talat and not Turkey, because it was Talat who was in charge and the only person to talk to. Well, it has been proven beyond any doubt, that Talat does what he is told. The TC's do not need a "President" for them to negotiate any peace with the RoC, when even a ONE star General will do. So, all you NeoPartitionist, I do not want to hear anymore crap about how Talat is in charge. For the amount of "good" he does for the peace process, I would start charging him rent for his lodging at the "Presidential Palace" or has the "TRNC" become a welfare state for the FAT CATS.??

Here is the funny part of the Generals visit. They have been given the "Red Carpet" treatment. Lets not forget Gul was there also not so long ago. The funny part is, that it is announced in advance to make it like an official state visit. Why.?? If the generals want to visit their troops in a foreign land, what's with the big announcement. He can just fly in or take the ferry, or come on one of the assault ships, and see his troops. They do not have any elected political positions, so why are the "TRNC's" elected officials are tripping all over themselves to have their pictures taken with the Generals. I can understand with Gul, but the Generals.?? It's not as if he has come to decorate his troops for bravery and valour in the battle fields on the front line.

Well, it is more than clear, that Christofias should ignore Talat and just talk with the Generals, and from what they are asking, which is no different than the Annan Plan 2004, then I do not see any reason to continue talking about a settlement. It sounds more like "take it or leave it" by the Generals. But my guess is, Christofias is not going to fall for that trap, to put the whole repeat AP up for another referendum, so that it can be voted down by the GC's, so that the "TRNC" can claim the "high road" victory to put the focus on the GC's for refusing to have peace once again, so that the "TRNC" can try to get International support for lifting the embargoes. I believe, Christofias will put the focus on the Turkish Military as being the obstacle for peace by not allowing the TC's to act in their own best interest, and end the talks.

The Turkish Military will be blamed for the failures of the talks as being the occupying force, which is how the International community sees it as, despite what the Generals are saying, about being only a "Peace Force". The whole impetus will be put on the Generals and their demands being the reason why the talks have failed, and Talat will walk away with a Egg-Fu-Young on his face for being an impotent leader. Next talks will be when the Turkish Politicians in Turkey are in charge and want to cut a deal with the RoC to let them into the EU. As to when that may be, is any one's guess. In the meantime, the South goes about it's business developing, while the North continue to struggle economically and paying Talat's rent on his "Presidential Palace" for nothing.

Of course, I would like to be proven wrong with my assessments and with my above comments, and that Talat is more than I have given him credit (lack of) for.

Thanks for the welcome back,Kikapu...It is good to be back even though nothing seems to have changed during my absence...

What you and I say about who is calling the shots in Cyprus is absolutely true. Even Blind Freddy (whoever he was!) can see that. The Neopartitionists as you call them can see it too. But they cannot afford to admit it...They feel they have no other choice but put a brave face,and keep repeating their mantra "Our way or Partition"...Not that they really want partition,but because they think the GCs must not get their way in anything,they must suffer for their past misdeeds...And for the present ones...Not recognition of the trnc,isolation,insisting on the removal of the Turkish troops,and the power of guarantee etc...They fail to see that they are the willing participants of their own demise as a distinct community.
Turkish Cypriots will go down in history as the only people who have actively participated in their own cultural and identity genocide...There is only one thing that will save the TCs from this fate...If the GCs invite them to return to the 1960 constitution,adapt it to the present,and get on with building one nation of Cypriots in which they will play their own part and find their own place in the sun...I am totally convinced now that there will never be an agreement as long as the Turkish army are calling the shots...
Don't forget that the Army is acting on behalf of the Deep State,which is more powerful than the present AKP government,which might not be there for too long in any case...but I am not holding my breath that Christofias will have the balls to invite the TCs to return. He is guided by the same mentality which says "the TCs must pay for all their misdeeds of the past and present"...A pity really...The March of
Folly which I talked about elsewhere keeps on keeping on in our beloved country...

[BirKibrisli]

That's funny Bir, because when Buyukanit AND Erdogan openly state that the army will gradually retreat once a lasting solution has been found, no one takes them seriously, but when certain high ranking officers come to the island everyone can quickly read all sorts of messages from their actions alone.

There is no winning with you people and your prejudices.

Could that be because we know what we are talking about?
That we are amazed that as soon as some new hope arises for a solution in Cyprus, the present Chief and the future Chief-of-staff of the Turkish Army rush over to tell us what is and what is not acceptable???

Could it be that ,living in a democratic country,some of us are totally bewildered what gives these generals the power to dictate foreign and international affairs policy to their own civilian government??? Let alone a "foreign" so-called government!!!

Can I just ask what you think Tpap is doing at the moment Bir????What is going on in the South do you think???.........Do you really believe that he is out of the picture and this whole thing with reunification is going to go smoothly with no tricks???......

You asked me to ask the GCs to return to the Zurich agreement and I have been doing so since then....Have you seen any changes that reinforce your views that they are happy to do so????......

They have Greece on their side and we have Turkey.....What the army are saying is that we are in these talks as equals and without the that recognition then the talks are starting off on the wrong foot. We are not asking for some Greek land but for part of our own country and a part in our own countries running. The whole point of their side is to show that we are the underdogs in the whole affair and the Turkish army are saying, WE are saying, that we are not...We are equals and that is that.

You really need to sort yourself out with this hate you have...It has been a long time since you got burned......Time to move on...As you keep reminding others...Except yours is personal!!!!!!

You got me all wrong,Zan...I do not hate anyone. I love my people, the Turkish Cypriots,and want them to survive and thrive...You are right about Papadop and right about the invitation to return to the London and Zurich agreements...But you are wrong about Turkey being on our side. Turkey is on her own side,using us as bait to advance her own interests...I know it is difficult to admit this for most of you. Some of you even truly believe that Turkey is looking after our interests...But if you look closely at what is happening in Cyprus,you will see that TCs have been stripped off everything,and are being treated as idiotic pests who must be tolerated for the time being...As I said to my reply to Kikapu the only thing that will save us is a return to the True Republic of Cyprus as founded in 1960...
Our GC cousins however are hell bent on keeping us out,and hence they are also digging their own graves...Turkey in the foreseeable future will be the dominant force in the region,and America will not hesitate to throw the GCs to the wolves if and when it comes to a showdown with the mighty and American-friendly Turkish Army...The worse for Cypriots is yet to come,my dear friend...

[Eric dayi]

COMING less than two weeks after a three-day visit to the north of the island by the Turkish military Chief of Staff Yasar Buyukanit, the arrival in Cyprus yesterday of the Commander of the Turkish Army Ilker Basbug has raised questions about the Turkish military’s view of a recent thaw in relations between the Greek and Turkish Cypriot communities.

The answer is blindingly simple...The Generals want to remind Talat and the world who is calling the shots in any possible solution...The message is,"don't raise your hopes too high,don't think you are going to come to an agreement the Turkish Army would not approve beforehand!"...


http://www.cyprus-mail.com/news/main.php?id=38614

Welcome back Bir.

It's funny how I don't hear all the NeoPartionist defending the Generals positions. They have all lost their tongues it seems. It must be the shock of being embarrassed and shown to be liars by the Turkish Generals. Since I've been on the forum, the NeoPartitonist kept on complaining why PapaD should deal with Talat and not Turkey, because it was Talat who was in charge and the only person to talk to. Well, it has been proven beyond any doubt, that Talat does what he is told. The TC's do not need a "President" for them to negotiate any peace with the RoC, when even a ONE star General will do. So, all you NeoPartitionist, I do not want to hear anymore crap about how Talat is in charge. For the amount of "good" he does for the peace process, I would start charging him rent for his lodging at the "Presidential Palace" or has the "TRNC" become a welfare state for the FAT CATS.??

Here is the funny part of the Generals visit. They have been given the "Red Carpet" treatment. Lets not forget Gul was there also not so long ago. The funny part is, that it is announced in advance to make it like an official state visit. Why.?? If the generals want to visit their troops in a foreign land, what's with the big announcement. He can just fly in or take the ferry, or come on one of the assault ships, and see his troops. They do not have any elected political positions, so why are the "TRNC's" elected officials are tripping all over themselves to have their pictures taken with the Generals. I can understand with Gul, but the Generals.?? It's not as if he has come to decorate his troops for bravery and valour in the battle fields on the front line.

Well, it is more than clear, that Christofias should ignore Talat and just talk with the Generals, and from what they are asking, which is no different than the Annan Plan 2004, then I do not see any reason to continue talking about a settlement. It sounds more like "take it or leave it" by the Generals. But my guess is, Christofias is not going to fall for that trap, to put the whole repeat AP up for another referendum, so that it can be voted down by the GC's, so that the "TRNC" can claim the "high road" victory to put the focus on the GC's for refusing to have peace once again, so that the "TRNC" can try to get International support for lifting the embargoes. I believe, Christofias will put the focus on the Turkish Military as being the obstacle for peace by not allowing the TC's to act in their own best interest, and end the talks.

The Turkish Military will be blamed for the failures of the talks as being the occupying force, which is how the International community sees it as, despite what the Generals are saying, about being only a "Peace Force". The whole impetus will be put on the Generals and their demands being the reason why the talks have failed, and Talat will walk away with a Egg-Fu-Young on his face for being an impotent leader. Next talks will be when the Turkish Politicians in Turkey are in charge and want to cut a deal with the RoC to let them into the EU. As to when that may be, is any one's guess. In the meantime, the South goes about it's business developing, while the North continue to struggle economically and paying Talat's rent on his "Presidential Palace" for nothing.

Of course, I would like to be proven wrong with my assessments and with my above comments, and that Talat is more than I have given him credit (lack of) for.

Thanks for the welcome back,Kikapu...It is good to be back even though nothing seems to have changed during my absence...

What you and I say about who is calling the shots in Cyprus is absolutely true. Even Blind Freddy (whoever he was!) can see that. The Neopartitionists as you call them can see it too. But they cannot afford to admit it...They feel they have no other choice but put a brave face,and keep repeating their mantra "Our way or Partition"...Not that they really want partition,but because they think the GCs must not get their way in anything,they must suffer for their past misdeeds...And for the present ones...Not recognition of the trnc,isolation,insisting on the removal of the Turkish troops,and the power of guarantee etc...They fail to see that they are the willing participants of their own demise as a distinct community.
Turkish Cypriots will go down in history as the only people who have actively participated in their own cultural and identity genocide...There is only one thing that will save the TCs from this fate...If the GCs invite them to return to the 1960 constitution,adapt it to the present,and get on with building one nation of Cypriots in which they will play their own part and find their own place in the sun...I am totally convinced now that there will never be an agreement as long as the Turkish army are calling the shots...
Don't forget that the Army is acting on behalf of the Deep State,which is more powerful than the present AKP government,which might not be there for too long in any case...but I am not holding my breath that Christofias will have the balls to invite the TCs to return. He is guided by the same mentality which says "the TCs must pay for all their misdeeds of the past and present"...A pity really...The March of
Folly which I talked about elsewhere keeps on keeping on in our beloved country...

It beggars belief how you two can be so moronic as to claim that we TCs will get lost amongst our own people.

We TCs will only become extinct if we give up our Turkisness and become just "Cypriots" and get lost amongst GCs who we have nothing in common with and are a different race and religion altogether.

You and that other moron kick-a-poonokio have already converted but don't expect us to be as moronic as you are.

[Murataga]

That's funny Bir, because when Buyukanit AND Erdogan openly state that the army will gradually retreat once a lasting solution has been found, no one takes them seriously, but when certain high ranking officers come to the island everyone can quickly read all sorts of messages from their actions alone.

There is no winning with you people and your prejudices.

Could that be because we know what we are talking about?
That we are amazed that as soon as some new hope arises for a solution in Cyprus, the present Chief and the future Chief-of-staff of the Turkish Army rush over to tell us what is and what is not acceptable???

Could it be that ,living in a democratic country,some of us are totally bewildered what gives these generals the power to dictate foreign and international affairs policy to their own civilian government??? Let alone a "foreign" so-called government!!!

Can I just ask what you think Tpap is doing at the moment Bir????What is going on in the South do you think???.........Do you really believe that he is out of the picture and this whole thing with reunification is going to go smoothly with no tricks???......

You asked me to ask the GCs to return to the Zurich agreement and I have been doing so since then....Have you seen any changes that reinforce your views that they are happy to do so????......

They have Greece on their side and we have Turkey.....What the army are saying is that we are in these talks as equals and without the that recognition then the talks are starting off on the wrong foot. We are not asking for some Greek land but for part of our own country and a part in our own countries running. The whole point of their side is to show that we are the underdogs in the whole affair and the Turkish army are saying, WE are saying, that we are not...We are equals and that is that.

You really need to sort yourself out with this hate you have...It has been a long time since you got burned......Time to move on...As you keep reminding others...Except yours is personal!!!!!!

You got me all wrong,Zan...I do not hate anyone. I love my people, the Turkish Cypriots,and want them to survive and thrive...You are right about Papadop and right about the invitation to return to the London and Zurich agreements...But you are wrong about Turkey being on our side. Turkey is on her own side,using us as bait to advance her own interests...I know it is difficult to admit this for most of you. Some of you even truly believe that Turkey is looking after our interests...But if you look closely at what is happening in Cyprus,you will see that TCs have been stripped off everything,and are being treated as idiotic pests who must be tolerated for the time being...As I said to my reply to Kikapu the only thing that will save us is a return to the True Republic of Cyprus as founded in 1960...
Our GC cousins however are hell bent on keeping us out,and hence they are also digging their own graves...Turkey in the foreseeable future will be the dominant force in the region,and America will not hesitate to throw the GCs to the wolves if and when it comes to a showdown with the mighty and American-friendly Turkish Army...The worse for Cypriots is yet to come,my dear friend...

I see no need to reiterate our obvious ties to Turkey on historical, cultural and ethnic aspects.... But let`s leave all of that aside for the sake of the conversation:

I think you have a convoluted perception of international relations. There is nothing wrong or unethical about a country looking after her interests and any TC with a minimal awareness of the realities on foreign affairs knows perfectly well that Turkey is here for her interests. What you fail to grasp is that those interests and associated objectives align perfectly with ours` as Turkish Cypriots:

(1) Absolute assurance of our safe and secure existence on this island with our true identity as Turkish Cypriots

(2) Prevention of ENOSIS

(3) Prevention of the Hellenization of the island.

The bottom line is that we want what they want, and they want what we want. The rest is bs...

[growuptcs]

4. Prevention of any GC's from their rightful ownership and enjoyment to their properties with full Turkish rule. (human rights abusers)