Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

Zan

Not really but I am not sure if I did anything but what happens to any thread ever.....You are not a reflection of me mate.....I want what was taken away from me and know I am not going to get it so am prepared to compromise.....You want that and what you lost also...In other words...The lot......

Zan, you are such a victim. Nothing has been taken from you not one little iota. You have chosen to walk away from it. When your so called community (and I say so called because you are comfy in your Britihs little home getting by advocating for TC's when you are not there living their lives in detention), gives back what they have taken from others you will automatically get back what you claim to have lost.

DO I want back everything yes a UNITED Cyprus. I make no apologuy for that.



GR you hit the nail on the head mate. Nothing further to say.

Your contradicting yourself, you cliam we havent lost anything then you say we will get it back when we give into your demands??

[denizaksulu]

whatever dude

No not what ever but...Read the story of Cyprus and what happened when I was a small boy and then what happened when you were a small boy and come up with something better than your one track mind......

That’s right Andrea, the story about a cute curly boy selling matches who heard a couple of shots ring out during a hunting season and though it was WWIII is already taken!

GR,
Having gone through the terrible ordeal of a war, why dont you understand another three year olds traumatic experience.

Because I was 9.5 during the war and I know the difference between a 9.5 year old's versus a 3 year old's memory!

Back to that story again. Your suffering is (I am not disputing) was greater than Zans. Yeh, right. Only he (Zan) and his parents can know their suffering.

What is it that you (plural) think that it is only the GCs who suffered?
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

[denizaksulu]

Deniz, we have all had our own experiences and we have all fallen victim to it.

We now need to rebuild ourselves and our country. The rest is all history.

I know that, but some still deny the other sides suffering. This is insufferable.

You were saying that you are giving up hope. I think I will join you.

[humanist]

I totally agree with you Deniz. Peopl'e experiences are their own. We can move out of victim hood though to a place wehere we can reuild lives and countries.

[Murataga]

And we think the same of you....You are the blind leading the blind because you really think that the GC admin has moved on and has no intention of making the island solely Greek. THe "RoC" are constantly finding ways in which it can tie it self in with Greece, be it financially, politically or defensively. You see no danger in that for TCS?....They have taken out our language, our culture, our politics and our name from the island and you see no danger in that?

I have never said that we are not to blame as well for what happened in Cyprus but I am certainly not going to sit back and let these propagandists put all the blame on me so that they can get what is mine. Yes we have our share in the blame but it has been like getting blood out of a stone when it comes to getting GCs share of the blame accepted.

None of this, however, takes anything away from the fact that our democratic right in the Zurich agreement has been taken away from us at gun point and will not be returned. That is why we did not accept the Greek offer of wondering around in our own country as second class citizens whilst they wave their flag of victory in our faces and that is why we will not do it now. The high level agreement that was reached way back when, is now back on the table.....We shall see what comes out of that if anything.......Are you not prepared to wait and see where that is going before you hand over our country????....Why are you so keen for us to give everything away??....You accuse us for falling for propaganda but I accuse you of falling for the other sides propaganda hook line and sinker. You see Turkey as the ultimate enemy and we don't....No matter what happens there we can still live on our island and call ourselves Turks. There is no Cypriot to speak of. Not in the sense of the ideal that you put forward anyway.

You get angry when I doubt you but doubt me every day.....Who died and made you king of all knowledge. An entire people want something but you know best.....Who the hell are you to tell them what to want and call them sheep in the process.....Your insults are beyond endurance sometimes in that we, the TCs and the Turks are not capable of thinking for ourselves but you and Kikapu have cornered the market on that one. You are not just arguing with me and Murataga here but with every TC that decided that they will live in the TRNC/KKTC and not move to the "RoC". You, one man, are telling them, the educated and the meek, that you know best. Again...Who the hell are you....We have been fighting for our rights since the time that you accuse us of isolating ourselves but still we have not had our rights returned so you now want us to give in....Give it up boys...We have lost so we might as well give it all up for the GCs......Some of us have more fight than that Bir so don't hold it against us.


What you said about us and that the isolation is due to our own efforts is wrong.......Very wrong. The reasons I have given you and I am sorry that you got angry that I said that I don't trust you but what else am I to think.....You know why we didn't give up and you omitted that point out of the equation...It has been a tactic by the GC admin for decades.....Why join in?????WHY???

Okey,Zan...We have to agree to disagree...And believe me i know where you are coming from...But please do not continue to misrepresent my position...I am not saying lets forget our Turkish heritage and become GC clones...I am saying lets put our Cypriotness first and demand that the GCs do the same. We can then sit down and talk between ourselves and agree on a return to our rightful place at partners in the Cyprus Republic of 1960...The beauty of this is we don't need anyone to solve our problem for us...Us Cypriots can solve it between ourselves...Once we agree on an orderly return,we can say goodbye to the settlers,invite people to return to their homes or accept a compensation package...But I am getting ahead of myself...lets deal with your points first...

RoC does not need to have Greece hold her hand any longer.They are in the same club (EU) and Cyprus can now stand on her own feet,at least financially and politically...Defense is another ballgame...Do you really blame the GCs for wanting close defensive ties with the country they consider their "Motherland"??? As far as they and the world are concerned
37% of their country is under foreign occupation by a power largely superior in military terms...And you cannot blame them solely for what happened in 1963/64...We were just as keen to walk away from the Republic as they were to see us off...And lets not forget,in 1964 Turkey actually put her signature to the UN Decision number 186...You know what that decision was??? That the administration of Cyprus would be left solely to the GCs till a solution could be found to the impasse...Yep,Ismet Inonu's government put Turkey's signature under that UN resolution...Look it up if you don't believe me...
So when you say the GCs have taken away our rights under the Zurich agreement,it is not the whole truth. And I believe in time to come,Christofias and the GCs will also come to realise that there will be no other way out for Cypriots but to return to that agreement and try with hindsight to make it work second time around...But will we agree to return??? As Kifeas rightly pointed out elsewhere,not very likely. in fact I would say definitely not...We have achieved Taksim,and we shall not be moved...What excuse will you have when Christofias removes all the Greek flags from the South and replaces the Greek national anthem???
What excuse will you have when he offers Talat the position of Vice President? and 3 ministers in the cabinet??? And invites the public servants to return to their jobs??? and agrees to set up the national guard 60-40 as in the agreements????

I don't think i am anybody special,Zan...I am using my democratic and human right to free speech...Is that too much to ask??? Through all my experiences in Cyprus during the 50s and 60s,and since then living in Austalia,Europe and Turkey and Cyprus,I have come to the present state of mind...In my maturity I have considered and reconsidered everything.
I believe passionately in what I am saying. And I will not stop saying it. I see my countrymen and women swimming in deep waters full of sharks,and I am sounding the alarm...That's all. I cannot come in and save you against your will...I cannot come and save you even if you will it...You are free to ignore my warnings and put up with the consequences..

And I never said our isolation was entirely our own making....I put you a scenario which i know to be true...That between 1968 and 74 it was our own people who were holding us prisoners in our enclaves and not the GCs...I was not talking about after 74,or the present....That is another story altogether...But let me leave you with a few more uncomfortable facts...In 1995 Turkey signed the agreement which allowed the RoC to begin membership talks with the EU...The payoff?Turkey was allowed into the EU Customs Union....In 1999 Turkey signed the agreement which allowed Cyprus to become a full member of the EU before a solution was found...The payoff???Turkey was given a date for full EU membership considerations...
And in 2003 Turkey signed off on the agreement which gave Cyprus full EU membership covering the whole island...The payoff???Turkey got a date to begin membership talks with the EU....I am not making these up,Zan...These are facts you can easily check...If you still think Turkey is in Cyprus to protect your interests,that is okey with me...But at least you are doing it turning a blind eye to these facts...And we all will know it...

Firstly, the only thing that came out of the U.N. with a number 186 in its title about Cyprus in 1964 was Resolution 186, adopted by the United Nations Security Council on 4 March 1964. This resolution was abopted unanimously by the 11 members of the council (5 of whom were permanent):

1) Bolivia 2) Brazil 3) China — Permanent Member 4) Czechoslovakia 5)France — Permanent Member 6) Ivory Coast 7) Morocco 8 ) Norway 9) Union of Soviet Socialist Republics — Permanent Member 10) United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland — Permanent Member 11) United States of America — Permanent Member

Turkey was NOT a member. So, contrary to your accusation above, not only did the Turkish government NOT sign this resolution, in fact, it COULD NOT sign it because she was not a member.

Secondly, in that Resolution, reference was made to the ‘Government of Cyprus’ against the protestations of the Turkish side. That government had become non-existent because of the GC side’s destruction of the 1960 Constitution and its armed onslaught on the TCs. However, this mattered very little to the West, which was more interested in maintaining stability in the Cold War era, than protecting TC rights and the rule of law. The UN was used merely as an instrument to get international approval for this policy. It should also be noted that what was then regarded as stability in the short term, proved to be instability in the mid- and long-term.

[Get Real!]

whatever dude

No not what ever but...Read the story of Cyprus and what happened when I was a small boy and then what happened when you were a small boy and come up with something better than your one track mind......

That’s right Andrea, the story about a cute curly boy selling matches who heard a couple of shots ring out during a hunting season and though it was WWIII is already taken!

GR,
Having gone through the terrible ordeal of a war, why dont you understand another three year olds traumatic experience.

Because I was 9.5 during the war and I know the difference between a 9.5 year old's versus a 3 year old's memory!

Back to that story again. Your suffering is (I am not disputing) was greater than Zans. Yeh, right. Only he (Zan) and his parents can know their suffering.

What is it that you (plural) think that it is only the GCs who suffered?
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

I am merely disputing Zan's ability to recall events at age 3! Something devastating happened to me at age 3, equivalent if not worse than Zan's alleged experience, yet I had to be informed of the details later in life by someone else...

[denizaksulu]

whatever dude

No not what ever but...Read the story of Cyprus and what happened when I was a small boy and then what happened when you were a small boy and come up with something better than your one track mind......

That’s right Andrea, the story about a cute curly boy selling matches who heard a couple of shots ring out during a hunting season and though it was WWIII is already taken!

GR,
Having gone through the terrible ordeal of a war, why dont you understand another three year olds traumatic experience.

Because I was 9.5 during the war and I know the difference between a 9.5 year old's versus a 3 year old's memory!

Back to that story again. Your suffering is (I am not disputing) was greater than Zans. Yeh, right. Only he (Zan) and his parents can know their suffering.

What is it that you (plural) think that it is only the GCs who suffered?
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

I am merely disputing Zan's ability to recall events at age 3! Something devastating happened to me at age 3, equivalent if not worse than Zan's alleged experience, yet I had to be informed of the details later in life by someone else...

One shouldnt underestimate a 3.5 yr old childs intelligence and memory even if supplemented by grown-ups.

[Get Real!]

whatever dude

No not what ever but...Read the story of Cyprus and what happened when I was a small boy and then what happened when you were a small boy and come up with something better than your one track mind......

That’s right Andrea, the story about a cute curly boy selling matches who heard a couple of shots ring out during a hunting season and though it was WWIII is already taken!

GR,
Having gone through the terrible ordeal of a war, why dont you understand another three year olds traumatic experience.

Because I was 9.5 during the war and I know the difference between a 9.5 year old's versus a 3 year old's memory!

Back to that story again. Your suffering is (I am not disputing) was greater than Zans. Yeh, right. Only he (Zan) and his parents can know their suffering.

What is it that you (plural) think that it is only the GCs who suffered?
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

I am merely disputing Zan's ability to recall events at age 3! Something devastating happened to me at age 3, equivalent if not worse than Zan's alleged experience, yet I had to be informed of the details later in life by someone else...

One shouldnt underestimate a 3.5 yr old childs intelligence and memory even if supplemented by grown-ups.

Supplemented or implanted? Therein lays the mystery...

[denizaksulu]

whatever dude

No not what ever but...Read the story of Cyprus and what happened when I was a small boy and then what happened when you were a small boy and come up with something better than your one track mind......

That’s right Andrea, the story about a cute curly boy selling matches who heard a couple of shots ring out during a hunting season and though it was WWIII is already taken!

GR,
Having gone through the terrible ordeal of a war, why dont you understand another three year olds traumatic experience.

Because I was 9.5 during the war and I know the difference between a 9.5 year old's versus a 3 year old's memory!

Back to that story again. Your suffering is (I am not disputing) was greater than Zans. Yeh, right. Only he (Zan) and his parents can know their suffering.

What is it that you (plural) think that it is only the GCs who suffered?
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

I am merely disputing Zan's ability to recall events at age 3! Something devastating happened to me at age 3, equivalent if not worse than Zan's alleged experience, yet I had to be informed of the details later in life by someone else...

One shouldnt underestimate a 3.5 yr old childs intelligence and memory even if supplemented by grown-ups.

Supplemented or implanted? Therein lays the mystery...

Therefore give him the benefit of the doubt, as we DO know things DID happen.

I can point out a few things which have been implanted in to GC minds. But then you will ask for data/links etc. These would all be unauthorised by the RoC gov. therefore not acceptable. Whats the point anyway. We should be striving for a solution and this will be impossible by dragging up dirt.

[zan]

whatever dude

No not what ever but...Read the story of Cyprus and what happened when I was a small boy and then what happened when you were a small boy and come up with something better than your one track mind......

That’s right Andrea, the story about a cute curly boy selling matches who heard a couple of shots ring out during a hunting season and though it was WWIII is already taken!

GR,
Having gone through the terrible ordeal of a war, why dont you understand another three year olds traumatic experience.

Because I was 9.5 during the war and I know the difference between a 9.5 year old's versus a 3 year old's memory!

You really are a nasty piece of work at times GR..Your world is a small psrt of what goes on in this world and you think you know it all.....You have no idea how your own mind works let alone projecting your insensitive views on what I remember or what I went through...My brothers and sisters were older than me and they went through hell but had the ability to remember in the normal way...My memory kept it self locked away for years......I had terrible night sweats and dreams throughout my childhood an d wet the bed This will give those children of the damned like Sotos some ammunition)until I was 11 years old because of those dreams.....I then had a break down a few years ago where I had even more vivid dreams that turned out to be memories...Now...As the GR that you are and your inability to think things through...You did not suffer the traumas at that age so how the hell you can be so cock sure that if you cannot remember then I can't is beyond all intelligent thinking.....I hit myself on the thumb with a hammer the other day..Did you feel that you moron???? How long ago did you stop learning GR...You are just like those old men that are going to drive their children crazy because you know it all and they will never know as much as you.....What a prat you are mate.....






Now Humanist......I will get nothing back that I lost dear...You try to understand as well...My Cyprus is gone...You are just a romantic with ideas above your station....My rights and my country as it was is gone and your so called shit government will not give it back..Only as a minority so you can take your suffering and stick it where it gives you the most pleasure because you have no empathy for my losses so I have none for yours...You keep what I lost and I will keep what you lost and you can cry on what ever fellas shoulder you can find...It will not be mine!!!