Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

Piratis

So what you are saying is that Greeks did not have the right to be liberated because Turks had transfered part of their population on our territories? It was an "expansionist ideology"???? Really? So the Turks invading and enslaving Greek territories and islands was not an "expansionist ideology", but the Greeks revolting for their freedom was an "expansionist ideology" because the Turks had created some small minorities on our lands???

You have every right to fight for what you thought was right just like I did and do, the outcome is the result of your actions which we have to accept or fight against if we have the capacity.

The Turkish population arrived here 500 years so we have just as much right to this island as you, the island is not Greek get that into your heads it changed when you were conquered by the Ottomans, just like the Native American Indians or the Australian Aborigines, you have the right to live here just live everyone else no more no less. Its like saying the Native Americans have the right to unite America with Canada, you tried to sell us out to Greece the world knows this and that's why you pay the price today for the stupid mistakes of the past, just like we have to for ours. You signed with your fingers crossed to create a Cypriot people and opted to pursue your hidden agenda at our expense, what did you expect us to do lie down and submit to the same fate as the Turks of Crete? of course we fought and will fight back for what we believe is right.

So every territory that was conquered by the Ottomans stopped being Greek, Serbian, Bulgarian, Egyptian etc, and became Turkish according to you?

An equivalent to the Native Americans and Australian Aborigines would be the Greeks in Asia Minor. There in the middle ages you managed to exterminate most of them and make them a minority in Asia Minor, just like it happened to the Native Americans and Australian Aborigines.

The Native Americans can not unite USA with Canada not because they are native, but because they are the minority of that country. If the great majority of Americans and Canadians wanted to unite their countries would any minority be able to deny this to them? In fact that is how the various states where united to form the USA.

But in Cyprus you didn't become the majority, you are a minority just like the minority of Turks in Greece and Bulgaria, or the whites in Africa and South America. So how can you demand to determine the destiny of this island against the will of the majority of people? Maybe the Turks in Greece, Bulgaria or Germany should do the same as well? Maybe the Whites in Africa or south America should demand the same?

Apparently what you want to do today is to continue with middle age practices and conquer the north part of our country and exterminate us from it. Well, it is not the middle ages anymore, and you continuing with such Nazi practices is not acceptable in the 21st century. Trying to excuse your actions of today by referring to the practices of the middle ages is something very lame.

And when did we try to take away your basic human right to live in Cyprus?? You could live in a free liberated Cyprus just like any other ethnic minority would.
We were fighting against the colonialists for the liberation of our island, and you started the fight against us with demands that we should be killed and ethnically cleansed from the north part of our country.

1963 to 1974 is when you tried to deny us our rights under an agreement signed by both communities, everything the TCs did was in direct retaliation of the GC dream of enosis. The division is a direct result of your own stupidity and actions, you have admitted this many times.

When did I admit such a lie? The conflict between GCs and TCs didn't start in 1963, but in 1958 when you attacked us, and collaborated with the British in order to continue to deny to the Cypriot people their freedom and self-determination.

You are the ones who started the attacks against us, and you are the ones who demanded that our human rights should be violated and our land stolen.

And you ours, the knife cuts both ways.

When? Isn't it you who started the attacks against us in the 50s, and you who made the demand back then that we should be ethnically cleansed from the north part of our country? We didn't touch you until you attacked us. All we did until then was fight against the colonialists for our liberation.

We never ventured out of our island to harm anybody. It is others who invaded us and oppressed us, something that continues until today. All we ever did was fight for our freedom from those foreign invadors. But apparently it is all fine if foreign invadors occupy and oppress Cyprus, but if Cypriots want to be liberated from foreign rule it is an "expansionist ideology" and they have to be punished for even thinking about it

You didn't have to venture out as your prey the TCs were close at hand, those that arrived did on our request even makarios asked for help, your fight was against what you claimed only on paper not in pratice to be your people the TCs, that's the sad part of all this mess is your reluctance to see as us as equals and accept that we to have rights, we are not foreigners we are people of this island, you cannot push us or concerns to one side ever again.

You came to Cyprus as conquers in order to enslave and oppress us. We didn't import you in this island as slaves.
All we didn't was fight against the colonialists for our freedom. But you attacked us again just like you did when you first invaded our island, in order to deny to us again our freedom and self-determination.

Of course I see you as equal citizens and accept the 100% of your rights. When did I say the opposite?

On the contrary you want each one TC to count as 5 GCs, you want discrimination and segragation based on ethnic background, and you insist to steal our lands and violate our human rights.

[Piratis]

That's not quite right Piratis, yes we might have come afterwards by conquering, but you cannot connect what has happened in the 50s and the 60s to those days nor to the Ottoman era, because you would be claiming that you were oppressing us very recently because of our past. How can the past be responsible for the 50s and the 60s?!

The Ottomans ruled you yes, but not us and certainly not in the 50s, so what happened there?

You decided that (as you are doing right now) you have every right to own this island against the will of its people, you saw an opportunity and you took it because you think majority rules!! Well you clearly don't.

So is that the kind of right nativity gives to people, because we are also natives here just like you.

Do you not see how you are contradicting yourself?

In the 50s we didn't do anything to you. We were fighting against the colonialists for the liberation of our island as it happened to many other Greek territories and islands and you attacked us, and then started to demand that we should be killed and ethnically cleansed from the north part of our country, while we had made no such demands against you.

I like it how it was fine for you when Cyprus was under Ottoman or British rule against the will of the great majority of the Cypriot people, but when the great majority of Cypriots themselves wanted to be part of the Greek state that was not fine because your minority disagreed.

Well, I guess the Turkish minorities also disagreed with the liberation of all parts of Greece, of Bulgaria and for every other part of the former Ottoman empire. So according to you non of those territories should have been liberated because some Turkish minority in them didn't like it

[shahmaran]

Right so "liberation" = Enosis, nice logic you got there.

To be honest there is no logic involved in any of it, its all about power so if you got it then it will go your way and if you don't then it wont, no point bitching about the ethics behind it because there isn't any.

Greeks do it as well as the Turks and everyone else who is capable of it would do it including Cyprus, as you have done. Your only argument against us doing it would be the "indigenous" defence which is utter rubbish anyways.

Plus the north might not have that many TC's but it does have MANY people, almost as much as the South and continuing to expand in numbers, who you now have to consider as well, no good just asking them to leave.

Therefore your ever so "noble" defence of peoples "democratic right" might just blow up in your face if you keep wasting time by dancing around with unrealistic requests.

[Get Real!]

Plus the north might not have that many TC's but it does have MANY people, almost as much as the South and continuing to expand in numbers, who you now have to consider as well, no good just asking them to leave.

The last inflated "TRNC" census, that barred international inspectors for many good reasons , claimed around 255,000 so how is that "almost as much as the South"???

For your info, 250,000 is the GC population of the Nicosia district!

[Piratis]

Liberation = Giving self-determination to the territory which is occupied so the people of that territory can make their own democratic decision about the destiny of their own territory.

http://www.un.org/Depts/dpi/decolonizat ... ration.htm

The Declaration states that "the subjection of peoples to alien subjugation, domination and exploitation constitutes a denial of fundamental human rights, is contrary to the United Nations Charter, and is an impediment to the promotion of world peace and cooperation, and that steps should be taken to transfer, unconditionally, all powers to the Trust and Non-Self-Governing Territories so that they might enjoy complete freedom and independence".

Also in 1960, the Assembly approved resolution 1541 (XV), defining free association with an independent State, integration into an independent State, or independence as the three legitimate options of full self-government.

In Cyprus our former colonizers didn't want to transfer to the Cypriot people the power of democratically deciding the destiny of their own island. They wanted to continue to rule our island as if Cyprus was still a British or Ottoman colony.

Greeks do it as well as the Turks and everyone else who is capable of it would do it including Cyprus, as you have done. Your only argument against us doing it would be the "indigenous" defence which is utter rubbish anyways.

Sure Greeks did it as well, 2000 years ago at the time of Alexander the Great.

And I tell you again: This is not the ancient years or the middle ages where such practices were the norm. Today Nazi practices such invading sovereign nations, ethnic cleansing, colonization etc are criminal, unacceptable practices, not something natural.

The occupation of Cyprus by Turkey, the declaration of the pseudo state, the transfer of Turkish Settlers in Cyprus are all criminal illegal practices. In order to achieve peace all of the above illegalities have to end.

If you don't want to achieve peace and you just want to go with the balance of power thats somehting I can not change. But why would you want that? By acting illegally even when you are the "winners" you can win only so much (so little in fact that even your victims have better standards than you), while when the balance turns against you then you will permanently loose the chance to get a better deal. If you make a deal today while the balance of power favors you then you can achieve a deal which can give to you the max that a minority can have in an EU country.
If you don't make the deal now, and you wait until the balance of power will change to be forced to make a deal, then you will get the minimum a minority can have in an EU country.

[Viewpoint]

Piratis

So every territory that was conquered by the Ottomans stopped being Greek, Serbian, Bulgarian, Egyptian etc, and became Turkish according to you?

Ottoman Empire.

An equivalent to the Native Americans and Australian Aborigines would be the Greeks in Asia Minor. There in the middle ages you managed to exterminate most of them and make them a minority in Asia Minor, just like it happened to the Native Americans and Australian Aborigines.

Correct that was the practice in those days nothing different in many parts of the world.

The Native Americans can not unite USA with Canada not because they are native, but because they are the minority of that country. If the great majority of Americans and Canadians wanted to unite their countries would any minority be able to deny this to them? In fact that is how the various states where united to form the USA.

If the minority do not want to accept what the majority is forcing on them, if they feel threatened then the natural reaction is to fight for what you believe is right, this causes division such as we have today in Cyprus.

But in Cyprus you didn't become the majority, you are a minority just like the minority of Turks in Greece and Bulgaria, or the whites in Africa and South America. So how can you demand to determine the destiny of this island against the will of the majority of people? Maybe the Turks in Greece, Bulgaria or Germany should do the same as well? Maybe the Whites in Africa or south America should demand the same?

We have been the minority in numbers but this did not make us any less a partner, the 1960 agreements which you signed is proof. Do these other minorities have such an agreements, the threat from the GC community was so vast that the only way to stop the GCs gifting Cyprus to Greece was to ensure that the TC who faced discrimination, persecution and death could say NO. No one can change history therefore these agreements which give our community rights, we will never allow to remove them as you did back in the 1960s.

Apparently what you want to do today is to continue with middle age practices and conquer the north part of our country and exterminate us from it. Well, it is not the middle ages anymore, and you continuing with such Nazi practices is not acceptable in the 21st century. Trying to excuse your actions of today by referring to the practices of the middle ages is something very lame.

This comical explanation of the plight the TCs suffered at the hands of GCs is pathetic, the division of today is a direct result of your own human rights abuses against TCs after agreeing to share the island, which you had no intention of sticking to, thats makes you a bunch of liars who cannot be trusted to stick to any agreements even in the 21st century. Therefore safeguards are vital to ensure you stick to any agreements you sign in the future and that you are fully aware what will happen if you should try to change the situation without our permission.

When did I admit such a lie? The conflict between GCs and TCs didn't start in 1963, but in 1958 when you attacked us, and collaborated with the British in order to continue to deny to the Cypriot people their freedom and self-determination.

When did we attack you in 1958, lets clarify this claim you keep repeating and see if you know the full chain of events.

When? Isn't it you who started the attacks against us in the 50s, and you who made the demand back then that we should be ethnically cleansed from the north part of our country? We didn't touch you until you attacked us. All we did until then was fight against the colonialists for our liberation.

So who killed the TCs if it wasnt GCs, please provide details, you know this is utter crap and the fact that you moved out of the North was the price you paid for your mistakes when trying to gift Cyprus our home to Greece without our say so.

You came to Cyprus as conquers in order to enslave and oppress us. We didn't import you in this island as slaves.
All we didn't was fight against the colonialists for our freedom. But you attacked us again just like you did when you first invaded our island, in order to deny to us again our freedom and self-determination.

The Ottomans attacked your ancestors not me I had no choice in the matter, they came here 500 years ago which in any books is enough time to make us indegenious to this island which even today I know you have problems accepting but its a fact. You cannot stamp and ignore a large part of your population and force a situation on them which is life threatening, they have every right to fight back for not only their rights but their lives.

Of course I see you as equal citizens and accept the 100% of your rights. When did I say the opposite?

Where were you in 1963 to 1974??? dont blame us if we do not believe you we have 11 years of good reason.

On the contrary you want each one TC to count as 5 GCs, you want discrimination and segragation based on ethnic background, and you insist to steal our lands and violate our human rights.

We want BBF and political equality as supported by the UN and 90% of the world.

[zan]

Why don't you 2 get a room and stop deluding yourselves with your own arrogance and idiocy?

Who knows you might even make a kid and make sure it grows up just the way you want it to
Aint that right Rebelwithoutabrain

cheers Shah, but he's not my taste.

Is it coz he iz black?!

Is that who I think it is?

Well who have u got in mind?

Who was it that listened to "black music" and had the same avatar some time ago?

There is listening to black music and then there is Rebelwithoutadick!!! I know his type GR and you can be sure that if you spent an hour in their company you would want to shoot yourself.....They sit around smoking dope and talking about things in sound bites. They have no idea what they are saying and usually end up right where they started hours after they began......They talk about black ppower and how the world has done them wrong and how everything that was great was also black..We stole everything from them..I had a phone call from a music studio once from a bunch just like them that asked if the song by Blue Mink...Melting Pot...Is a racist song........ They heard some idiot say it and were hooked onto the sound bite and thought it a good subject to fight over....Not having an original thought of their own own they got tied up in knots and decided to phone me......I just could not believe that they could make this thing last for nearly all day and still not come up with an answer........I wondered who actually was able to dial out....

Now you decide!!!


Take a pinch of white man
Wrap him up in black skin
Add a touch of blue blood
And a little bitty bit of red Indian boy
Oh like a Curly Latin kinkies
Oh Lordy, Lordy, mixed with yellow Chinkees, yeah
You know you lump it all together
And you got a recipe for a get along scene
Oh what a beautiful dream
If it could only come true, you know, you know

What we need is a great big melting pot
Big enough enough enough to take
The world and all its got And keep it stirring for a hundred years or more
And turn out coffee coloured people by the score

Rabbis and the friars
Vishnus and the gurus
We got the Beatles or the Sun God
Well it really doesn't matter what religion you choose
And be thankful little Mrs. Graceful
You know that livin' could be tasteful
We should all get together in a lovin machine
I think I'll call up the queen
It' s only fair that she knows, you know, you know

What we need is a great big melting pot
Big enough enough enough to take
The world and all its got And keep it stirring for a hundred years or more
And turn out coffee coloured people by the score


Bored yet?????? great minds working together in a recording studio.....Did you know that Jesus was black and that Cyprus was once joined onto Turkey............I remember them well!!!

[humanist]

Zan

I don't deny anyone anything...The history of Cyprus does and the Cyprob does...I am just being mature about a way forward and not relying on political bent....South Africa could have been given to the Blacks..Everone realised that that would not be the best way forward.....There are still millions upon millions living in townships in abject poverty.......They have been given a way to work their way out and not the turmoil that will see the country in flames. Reconciliation is not just about telling each other that you are sorry and then running wild with good intentions that are dangerous and irresponsible. It is about sharing the blame, the power and the responsibility to do the right thing for the time in which you live. You have to wake up to reality as it stands.

Zan I totally agree with you. And I believe in a world torn apart by terrorism and hate that all Cypriots can live in a united Cyprus and it is going to happen.

As VP said above lets deal with the shit that we need to deal with and get on with the show. Besides I wanna come to Cyprus in the next 4 years the sooner the better and what better way than to celebrate our coming together. :):):):)

[zan]

Zan

I don't deny anyone anything...The history of Cyprus does and the Cyprob does...I am just being mature about a way forward and not relying on political bent....South Africa could have been given to the Blacks..Everone realised that that would not be the best way forward.....There are still millions upon millions living in townships in abject poverty.......They have been given a way to work their way out and not the turmoil that will see the country in flames. Reconciliation is not just about telling each other that you are sorry and then running wild with good intentions that are dangerous and irresponsible. It is about sharing the blame, the power and the responsibility to do the right thing for the time in which you live. You have to wake up to reality as it stands.

Zan I totally agree with you. And I believe in a world torn apart by terrorism and hate that all Cypriots can live in a united Cyprus and it is going to happen.

As VP said above lets deal with the shit that we need to deal with and get on with the show. Besides I wanna come to Cyprus in the next 4 years the sooner the better and what better way than to celebrate our coming together. :):):):)

Thats all I have been saying!!!

[Piratis]

Piratis

So every territory that was conquered by the Ottomans stopped being Greek, Serbian, Bulgarian, Egyptian etc, and became Turkish according to you?

Ottoman Empire.

Ottoman Empire what? You can oppress people and enslave them, this doesn't mean that Athens or Crete or Cyprus stop being Greek because they came under Ottoman rule.

An equivalent to the Native Americans and Australian Aborigines would be the Greeks in Asia Minor. There in the middle ages you managed to exterminate most of them and make them a minority in Asia Minor, just like it happened to the Native Americans and Australian Aborigines.

Correct that was the practice in those days nothing different in many parts of the world.

Of those days yes. But apparently you want to continue with the same middle age practices today. What was the norm then, today it is considered criminal. Otherwise Hitler would just be considered just another great conqueror, and not a criminal.

The Native Americans can not unite USA with Canada not because they are native, but because they are the minority of that country. If the great majority of Americans and Canadians wanted to unite their countries would any minority be able to deny this to them? In fact that is how the various states where united to form the USA.

If the minority do not want to accept what the majority is forcing on them, if they feel threatened then the natural reaction is to fight for what you believe is right, this causes division such as we have today in Cyprus.

No my friend. A minority has no right to take guns and stating killing people just because they do not like the democratic choice of the country as a whole. We didn't ask for a single of your human rights to be violated. The only thing we asked for is for our island to be part of the free Greek state. How it was fine for you when Cyprus was part of the Ottoman and British empires against the will of Cypriots themselves, but it was not fine to be part of the Greek state which is what the great majority of Cypriots wanted?

But in Cyprus you didn't become the majority, you are a minority just like the minority of Turks in Greece and Bulgaria, or the whites in Africa and South America. So how can you demand to determine the destiny of this island against the will of the majority of people? Maybe the Turks in Greece, Bulgaria or Germany should do the same as well? Maybe the Whites in Africa or south America should demand the same?

We have been the minority in numbers but this did not make us any less a partner, the 1960 agreements which you signed is proof. Do these other minorities have such an agreements, the threat from the GC community was so vast that the only way to stop the GCs gifting Cyprus to Greece was to ensure that the TC who faced discrimination, persecution and death could say NO. No one can change history therefore these agreements which give our community rights, we will never allow to remove them as you did back in the 1960s.

Those "rights" where given to you by the British colonizers because you helped them to oppress our revolution and keep Cyprus enslaved, not because you were in any danger. In fact you were the ones you started the conflict in the 1950s and started to kill us and demand our death and our ethic cleansing.

Apparently what you want to do today is to continue with middle age practices and conquer the north part of our country and exterminate us from it. Well, it is not the middle ages anymore, and you continuing with such Nazi practices is not acceptable in the 21st century. Trying to excuse your actions of today by referring to the practices of the middle ages is something very lame.

This comical explanation of the plight the TCs suffered at the hands of GCs is pathetic, the division of today is a direct result of your own human rights abuses against TCs after agreeing to share the island, which you had no intention of sticking to, thats makes you a bunch of liars who cannot be trusted to stick to any agreements even in the 21st century. Therefore safeguards are vital to ensure you stick to any agreements you sign in the future and that you are fully aware what will happen if you should try to change the situation without our permission.

Greek Cypriots are the ones who suffered and continue to suffer at the hands of Turks. TCs had casualties only when they attacked us and tried to deny to us our freedom and self-determination on our island. We never attacked you first. So it is comical to pretend to be the victim when in fact you have always been and you continue to be the aggressors.

As I said many times the only thing that can bring peace is to give freedom and self determination to Cypriots. Forcing us by putting a gun on our head to sign some agreement that surrenders to you our rights means absolutely nothing to us. Keep this in mind for future reference as well.

When did I admit such a lie? The conflict between GCs and TCs didn't start in 1963, but in 1958 when you attacked us, and collaborated with the British in order to continue to deny to the Cypriot people their freedom and self-determination.

When did we attack you in 1958, lets clarify this claim you keep repeating and see if you know the full chain of events.

When? Isn't it you who started the attacks against us in the 50s, and you who made the demand back then that we should be ethnically cleansed from the north part of our country? We didn't touch you until you attacked us. All we did until then was fight against the colonialists for our liberation.

So who killed the TCs if it wasnt GCs, please provide details, you know this is utter crap and the fact that you moved out of the North was the price you paid for your mistakes when trying to gift Cyprus our home to Greece without our say so.

So when you first came here and occupied Cyprus did you ask us if we wanted you on our island? You didn't. So now why should we take permission from your minority with what we are going to do with our own island? You have the right to say your opinion and to cast your vote any way you like, but you have no right to force your minority opinion.

As far as what you did in the 50s, I posted the British made video many times. It is undeniable that you are the ones who started the intercommunal conflict by attacking us. Until then we were fighting against the colonialists and we had not bothered you at all. But the Btitish promised to you gains on our loss if you collaborated with them to deafeat the Cypriots, and so you attacked us.

Here is the video again:

You came to Cyprus as conquers in order to enslave and oppress us. We didn't import you in this island as slaves.
All we didn't was fight against the colonialists for our freedom. But you attacked us again just like you did when you first invaded our island, in order to deny to us again our freedom and self-determination.

The Ottomans attacked your ancestors not me I had no choice in the matter, they came here 500 years ago which in any books is enough time to make us indegenious to this island which even today I know you have problems accepting but its a fact. You cannot stamp and ignore a large part of your population and force a situation on them which is life threatening, they have every right to fight back for not only their rights but their lives.

The problem is not what your ancestors did to my ancestors. Is that you have not stopped with the crimes against us ever since. You continue with the same kinds of crimes today as if we are still in the middle ages.
And I will tell you again: Stop pretending to be the victims. You are the ones who always started the attacks against us.

Of course I see you as equal citizens and accept the 100% of your rights. When did I say the opposite?

Where were you in 1963 to 1974??? dont blame us if we do not believe you we have 11 years of good reason.

In 1963 we exactly proposed that you should have equal rights with us and not more, and then you started to attack us again.

On the contrary you want each one TC to count as 5 GCs, you want discrimination and segragation based on ethnic background, and you insist to steal our lands and violate our human rights.

We want BBF and political equality as supported by the UN and 90% of the world.

Political equality means that each citizen is equal to each other, which is not what you demand. What you demand is that each TC should be equal to 5 GCs. Thats inequality, not equality.
As far as BBF goes, no problem at all, as long as the area that is under your control belongs exclusively to you and was not stolen from us.