Cyprus-Forum.com

[repulsewarrior]

...not unlike the PKK, like Turkish Cypriots, they need their self representation to sustain an identity which as persons belongs to them. Similarly, Ataturks' dream was hijacked, by the majority, as in Cyprus with the Enosis dream. Neither country has become successfully mono clonal, and both require Constitutional Reform, along with a recognition to those who are Turcophone but not Turk, that they are Turkish because they choose to belong to this State. As it requires Cypriots to realise that Grecophones need not be Hellenes to be living in Greek.

[Piratis]

How will you guarantee my human and minority rights in a united Cyprus? this is the main concern we have we feel that if there are no safeguards to make the majority respect our human rights then they will twist and manipulate the situation to their benefit and there relegate us to second class citizenship, where we are discriminated against and will have to go to the ECHR just to get our basic human rights therefore driving us out of our homeland.

The exact same way they are guaranteed in every other democratic country. Furthermore Cyprus is part of EU, and that is a second guarantee for you since every law of Cyprus has to be compatible with EU laws, and EU laws take precedence over local laws. (unless you will tell me that the EU will want to discriminate against you as well).

You can't just use some hypothetical theories based on your "evil GCs" propaganda, to violate the human rights of 100s of thousands of people. The human rights of TCs are not in risk in an EU member Cyprus.

Furthermore, I would be more than glad to accept any other safeguards, as long as those safeguards are not just an excuse to violate democratic and human rights of others so that your community and Turkey can have gains on our loss.

[shahmaran]

On the other hand the Kurds are the native people of the area called Kurdistan, and existed there long before the Turks came. The Kurds didn't steal the land they inhabit from the Turks. An example similar to the Kurds would be the Tibetans.

Where do you come up with this rubbish Piratis, is there some kind of an unwritten law that suggests "first come first serve" or have you done a genetic research to trace back the "natives" of certain lands, because according to you GC's are supposedly also meant to be the "natives" of Cyprus, yet we know that is utter crap.

In other words your entire argument, once boiled down, is based on an assumption you have mustered up in your own time which has absolutely no real scientific nor historical basis and you use it to give people priority rights to geographic locations. So according to you should Turks go back to central Asia and claim their "rightful" lands back?

People move around, fight, conquer, settle, fight more, travel more, go extinct, get assimilated, etc. this is just human nature, it means nothing at the current argument.

[RebelWithoutAPause]

Where do you come up with this rubbish Piratis, is there some kind of an unwritten law that suggests "first come first serve" or have you done a genetic research to trace back the "natives" of certain lands, because according to you GC's are supposedly also meant to be the "natives" of Cyprus, yet we know that is utter crap.

"First Come First Serve" is an unwritten law of ethics - which you being a Turkish nationalist, do not know much about. How many people like what the Europen settlers did to the Americas? Not many. Your jut lucky that the story of the Turks and how you came to your current home in Asia Minor and Anatolia is not known by as many people throught the world.

...and what do you really know about Cyprus? I thought Cyprus didnt exist to you before 1963???? So tell me, what do you know about the first settlers of Cyprus? What do you know about Kition and the rest of the island??? Why dont you shut up and go find an Ataturk website to wank over. Most of Cyprus was uninhabited before the Greek migration there....besides, who would you call the natives in Cyprus right now?

In other words your entire argument, once boiled down, is based on an assumption you have mustered up in your own time which has absolutely no real scientific nor historical basis and you use it to give people priority rights to geographic locations. So according to you should Turks go back to central Asia and claim their "rightful" lands back?

Turks should realise they are unwanted guests in another's home and not take liberties.

People move around, fight, conquer, settle, fight more, travel more, go extinct, get assimilated, etc. this is just human nature, it means nothing at the current argument.

Lets hope the Kurds carry on with their human nature then.

[RebelWithoutAPause]

The only answer your shit deserves is a big fat FUCK YOU!

Go learn something and come back when you have the competence to follow up a decent argument racist little gimp.

Haha - in other words "This is what im going to write because i didnt really know what i was talking about in the first place".

The man who wants to ethnically cleanse my people from their homes calls me racist....hahaha. Shah do you really believe the shit you write?

[Viewpoint]

VP, Cyprus, like every other Greek territory and island, has been fighting to become part of a Greek state since the Greek revolution of 1821. Some territories where liberated soon after the revolution, and some others many decades later, some of them as late as the 1940s.

Are you telling me that it was illegal for Cypriots, and for Greeks in general, to fight against their rulers for freedom just because Turks had transferred parts of their population on our territories? Are you telling me that it was legal for Cyprus to be part of the Ottoman and British empires against the will of the Cypriots, but it was illegal to be part of the Greek state which is what the great majority of Cypriots themselves wanted??

And if Cyprus became part of the Greek state then which of your human rights would be violated? Nobody would physically harm you, nobody would send you to jail, nobody would take your land.

The fact is that after you oppressed us for centuries, then in the 1950s you collaborated with the British, and you started a conflict against us, in order to continue to deprive us from our freedom and self determination.


Today we are not talking about enosis or anything like that. We made that compromise in 1959. But we are not going to compromise our human rights, democracy and our lands, so you can have even more gains on our loss. Your minority should accept that they had enough gains on our loss already, and that there is no chance to achieve peace if you insist for further gains of land and power on our loss.

You claim you gave up the dream of enosis in 1959, then what was 1974 and the underhand tactics of 1963 onwards which deprived us of our human rights, why were you not fighting for my human rights back then please forgive me for not believing you when you are going around peddling human rights for all now that you have lost yours due to a situation you admit you contributed to.

Democracy must as you say take into account the needs of all the population, this was the biggest mistake of the GCs and falls short of the posts you have supplied in this thread yourself you tried to side track us and turn Cyprus into Greece, we are also indigenous to Cyprus and we will never give up our right to live here as equals, we tried this in 1960 but you had other plans for our future, just as you hate and detest the idea of being united to Turkey we feel the same about Greece, this I am sure you can understand. Our struggle was in direct retaliation of your dream to gift Cyprus to Greece with or without its TC population, your claiming that our rights woudl have been protected makes me laugh as there is enough evidence eg Crete to prove what the likely outcome of the TCs woudl have been but of course you will never understand this as you are not a TC and your life would not have been in the balance.

[shahmaran]

The only answer your shit deserves is a big fat FUCK YOU!

Go learn something and come back when you have the competence to follow up a decent argument racist little gimp.

Haha - in other words "This is what im going to write because i didnt really know what i was talking about in the first place".

The man who wants to ethnically cleanse my people from their homes calls me racist....hahaha. Shah do you really believe the shit you write?

To be honest, i have no intention of taking a dickhead like you seriously nor waste my time constructing a decent reply for, you are simply nor worth it, the only thing you are good for is to ruin a debate i was having with someone else. You can make whatever you like out of it, wont change the fact that you are a racist cunt and i have no reason to discuss anything with you

The "indigenous" debate has been going on here way before you brought your sorry arse in so as they say, if you have nothing constructive to add then shut the fuck up and listen, alright sunshine?

Now go play with your hip-hop cd's.

[RebelWithoutAPause]

You claim you gave up the dream of enosis in 1959, then what was 1974 and the underhand tactics of 1963 onwards which deprived us of our human rights, why were you not fighting for my human rights back then please forgive me for not believing you when you are going around peddling human rights for all now that you have lost yours due to a situation you admit you contributed to.

Again another mug who doesnt know what he was talking about and chooses to purpously act ignorant and cant tell the difference in Cyprus between 1959 and 1974. We could tell him in 1974 Enosis had virtually no GC support but then what is the point??? Because we've said this before.

I dont think people like VP, Shah, Zan etc know what human are and choose to forget how it was their own TC militia who wanted their 'human rights' deprived in the first place.

Democracy must as you say take into account the needs of all the population, this was the biggest mistake of the GCs and falls short of the posts you have supplied in this thread yourself you tried to side track us and turn Cyprus into Greece, we are also indigenous to Cyprus and we will never give up our right to live here as equals, we tried this in 1960 but you had other plans for our future, just as you hate and detest the idea of being united to Turkey we feel the same about Greece, this I am sure you can understand. Our struggle was in direct retaliation of your dream to gift Cyprus to Greece with or without its TC population, your claiming that our rights woudl have been protected makes me laugh as there is enough evidence eg Crete to prove what the likely outcome of the TCs woudl have been but of course you will never understand this as you are not a TC and your life would not have been in the balance.

Hey how about using the Turkish and other muslim population of north-eastern Greece as an example too?

...and NO, Turks ARE NOT indigenous to Cyprus im afraid to say. Thats like saying Europeans are indigenous to the southern part of Africa!

[Viewpoint]

How will you guarantee my human and minority rights in a united Cyprus? this is the main concern we have we feel that if there are no safeguards to make the majority respect our human rights then they will twist and manipulate the situation to their benefit and there relegate us to second class citizenship, where we are discriminated against and will have to go to the ECHR just to get our basic human rights therefore driving us out of our homeland.

The exact same way they are guaranteed in every other democratic country. Furthermore Cyprus is part of EU, and that is a second guarantee for you since every law of Cyprus has to be compatible with EU laws, and EU laws take precedence over local laws. (unless you will tell me that the EU will want to discriminate against you as well).

You can't just use some hypothetical theories based on your "evil GCs" propaganda, to violate the human rights of 100s of thousands of people. The human rights of TCs are not in risk in an EU member Cyprus.

Furthermore, I would be more than glad to accept any other safeguards, as long as those safeguards are not just an excuse to violate democratic and human rights of others so that your community and Turkey can have gains on our loss.

What about the Blacks in France, the Indians in the UK, the Turks in Greece, The Turks in Bulgaria, ask them about how the EU protects their human rights under EU law, you are talking about a body of nations who do not have a task force or any infrastructure to deal with conflicts, they need 205 meetings just to buy a pen, noway will we protect our human rights and the GCs will manipulate the situation to benefit their own community, you dont face this risk so you must at least accept that the safeguards we demand are vital to any solution. If you have no intention of using your numerical advantage then you should have no objection to addressing our concerns by putting in place safeguards which according to you will never be necessary as the GC excude an adminstration that is democratic and protects everyones human rights irrelevent of their ethnic origin.

[Viewpoint]

You claim you gave up the dream of enosis in 1959, then what was 1974 and the underhand tactics of 1963 onwards which deprived us of our human rights, why were you not fighting for my human rights back then please forgive me for not believing you when you are going around peddling human rights for all now that you have lost yours due to a situation you admit you contributed to.

Again another mug who doesnt know what he was talking about and chooses to purpously act ignorant and cant tell the difference in Cyprus between 1959 and 1974. We could tell him in 1974 Enosis had virtually no GC support but then what is the point??? Because we've said this before.

I dont think people like VP, Shah, Zan etc know what human are and choose to forget how it was their own TC militia who wanted their 'human rights' deprived in the first place.

Democracy must as you say take into account the needs of all the population, this was the biggest mistake of the GCs and falls short of the posts you have supplied in this thread yourself you tried to side track us and turn Cyprus into Greece, we are also indigenous to Cyprus and we will never give up our right to live here as equals, we tried this in 1960 but you had other plans for our future, just as you hate and detest the idea of being united to Turkey we feel the same about Greece, this I am sure you can understand. Our struggle was in direct retaliation of your dream to gift Cyprus to Greece with or without its TC population, your claiming that our rights woudl have been protected makes me laugh as there is enough evidence eg Crete to prove what the likely outcome of the TCs woudl have been but of course you will never understand this as you are not a TC and your life would not have been in the balance.

Hey how about using the Turkish and other muslim population of north-eastern Greece as an example too?

...and NO, Turks ARE NOT indigenous to Cyprus im afraid to say. Thats like saying Europeans are indigenous to the southern part of Africa!

You answer reveals you are a moron and not even worth answering as long as people like you exsist ther will never be a solution, you are the problem.