Cyprus-Forum.com

[Nikitas]

"Once Cyprus becomes the island of peace, then Turkish and Greek troops can be withdrawn simultaneously"

What Greek troops are these that Erdogan is referring to? The 1000 or so of the ELDYK force? Those stay according to demands so far for a "token" force kept there by both Greece and Turkey.

As far as I know there are no additional troops kept there by Greece. There are the officers of the National Guard but those are needed to keep Cypriots in check and hardly count as troops. So what mutual withdrawal is he talking about?

[denizaksulu]

Yes, what would their next lame conspiracy be i wonder, once they finally get it into their thick skulls that Turkey does not actually have any "expansionist policies" as some idiots here like to keep babbling on about.

What will they actually whinge about once it is as clear as the Cypriot sky that Turkey did actually come for a PEACE OPERATION!

One just cant help but wonder......

Came across these snippets which shed some light on these expansionist dreams.

In 1954, nine years before intercommunal conflict broke out in 1963, the then Foreign Minister of Turkey F. Koprufu, declared that Cyprus is an "extention of continental Turkey", and that it should revert to Turkey "on the basis of geographical proximity."

At the tripartite conference on Cyprus in August-September 1955, the then Turkish Foreign Minister, Zorlu, stated:
"...The importance of Cyprus to Turkey does not arise from a single cause; it is a necessity which emanates from the exigencies of history, geography, economy and military strategy, from the right to existence and security, which is the most sacred of every state, in short, from the very nature of things."

The Turkish journalist and historian A. Gurkan, in "Kibris Postasi" (12.20.83) put it quite succintly when he said:
"Speaking from a purely strategic point of view we could say that for Turkey's security, a safe Cyprus is a Cyprus which would be, in its entirety, under Turkish control."

Gunnes, former Turkish FM :-
"Cyprus is as precious as the right arm of a country which cares for her defence or her expansionist aims if she harbours any. If we don't keep in mind this strategic importance of Cyprus, we cannot understand the peace operation of 20 July or rather it is impossible to understand the whole Cyprus crisis...
Many states, to a certain extent because it suits their interest, want to see the Cyprus problem merely as our desire to protect the Turkish community on the island. Whereas the actual problem is the security of 45 million Turks in the motherland together with the Turks in the island and the maintenance of the balance in the Middle East."

By Ozal, (...) Prime Minister of Turkey who, referring to the UDI (NB. unilateral declaration of independence of the occupied part) of November 1983, said:
"Cyprus is an island which pierces the middle of Turkey like a dagger. It is extremely vital from the viewpoint of our security. This island should not be in enemy hands. The existence of the Turks in northern Cyprus is a guarantee in this direction."

( All from mideastinfo.com)


------

.....cutting and pasting back to the north

What is the point you are makng here Bill. Way back in 1954 they said this they said that. So what. In 1974 the Greeks took action and toppled down a legal goverment and tried for Enosis. Why bother with what they (the Turks) thought instead of what the Junta and Eoka B did.

[denizaksulu]

And in 1963 the Greeks started to killthe TCs to get ENOSIS and then in 1974 the Greeks staged a Coup to do the same again when the first failed...Actions speak louder than words...................

And in 1958 -

Donktosh said that a friend or friends of his were blowing up the Turkish Embassy:-

Emin Dirvana, then Turkish Ambassador to Cyprus, explains what Denktash means, in an article in "Milliyet" (5.15.64)

"...I was informed that on the 7th of June, 1958, a bomb had been planted in the Turkish Press Office in Nicosia by persons who, as was established later, had nothing to do with the Greek Cypriots. The Turks of Nicosia were then incited (...) and perpetrated acts similar to those committed on the 6th and the 7th of September, 1955 in Istanbul."

In an interview given by Denktash to the British television channel ITV for the programme "Cyprus: Britain's Grim Legacy", he said:

"There was an explosion at the information bureau of the Turkish Consulate. A crowd had already gathered there, a crowd of the Turkish Cypriot community. And they almost immediately decided that Greeks had done it and they were swearing vengeance against the Greeks and so on." "The explosion started a night of riots in Nicosia. Turkish Cypriots burned and looted Greek shops and homes. Soon came counter-attacks and the fighting spread round the island. Later on, a friend of mine, whose name must still be kept secret, was to confess to me that he had put this little bomb in their doorway in order to create an atmosphere of tension so that people would know that Turkish Cypriots mattered."

(Source as above)

This should fire up Deniz-no-riots-aksulu ....

Wrong Oracle. I remeber the 1958 riots well. I was in my first year at high school. We were sent home.

You were talking about 'December 1963 riots'.

Thats why I asked you "what riots?"

I dont need firing up my dear. I realise who I am dealing with. A pitiful woman.

[denizaksulu]

And in 1963 the Greeks started to killthe TCs to get ENOSIS and then in 1974 the Greeks staged a Coup to do the same again when the first failed...Actions speak louder than words...................

And in 1958 -

Donktosh said that a friend or friends of his were blowing up the Turkish Embassy:-

Emin Dirvana, then Turkish Ambassador to Cyprus, explains what Denktash means, in an article in "Milliyet" (5.15.64)

"...I was informed that on the 7th of June, 1958, a bomb had been planted in the Turkish Press Office in Nicosia by persons who, as was established later, had nothing to do with the Greek Cypriots. The Turks of Nicosia were then incited (...) and perpetrated acts similar to those committed on the 6th and the 7th of September, 1955 in Istanbul."

In an interview given by Denktash to the British television channel ITV for the programme "Cyprus: Britain's Grim Legacy", he said:

"There was an explosion at the information bureau of the Turkish Consulate. A crowd had already gathered there, a crowd of the Turkish Cypriot community. And they almost immediately decided that Greeks had done it and they were swearing vengeance against the Greeks and so on." "The explosion started a night of riots in Nicosia. Turkish Cypriots burned and looted Greek shops and homes. Soon came counter-attacks and the fighting spread round the island. Later on, a friend of mine, whose name must still be kept secret, was to confess to me that he had put this little bomb in their doorway in order to create an atmosphere of tension so that people would know that Turkish Cypriots mattered."

(Source as above)

Admited....The biggest mistake that Denktas made in all his time.....He really thought that it would stop Makarios' illegal aims of ENOSIS......etc.

Gawd I feel faint but Donktosh doesn't say in the above that it was" the biggest mistake he made in all his time... etc" (He may have conceded this elsewhere). What he says is that his friend planted the bomb to "create an atmosphere of tension".

Regretfully they succeeded in doing just this.

Before I begin, I must say that I am not sticking up for Denktash. One point missing in this article is, when he says his friend came later and told him (Denktash) that he had planted the bomb, did he say that Denktash had ordered it? I am just curious. Could it have been that his 'friend' was merely behaving stupidly, trying to curry favour with Denktash? Does anybody know if it was planted with Denktash prior knowledge.

As a result of those riots I remember the enormous Ford Garage was burnt down near the Kyrenia gate. There was a lot of confusion at the time. After that the northern part of the walled city became the Turkish sector.

[denizaksulu]

Well if Greeks seem to attack Turkey at every given chance (as they have done so), then Turkey very rightfully needs to look out for the buildup of further strategical locations that could be used for another invasion attempt, I'm sure you would also agree that no one would want to be "surrounded" by such forces, hence why the the Turkish military also views Northern Iraq as a potential threat.

On the other hand Bill, there is no such a name as "Koprufu" in Turkish, and the idea that "Cyprus should revert to Turkey on the basis of proximity" is bollocks because there are Greek islands so close to Turkey that you can throw stones at them yet no one cares about. In fact if what he said meant anything at such context then Turkey should already own most of the islands in the Aegean.

Turkey does not have any expansionist policies, you guys sound like the US who exaggerates and exploits invisible threats in order to fabricate the right to wage war on people.

Shah, you have to forgive Bills misspelling of Turkish names.

Koprulu not Koprufu

Denktas and not Donktas

Gunes and not Gunnes

He has a problem of misspelling just like his misleading quotes.(taken out of context)

[bill cobbett]

And in 1963 the Greeks started to killthe TCs to get ENOSIS and then in 1974 the Greeks staged a Coup to do the same again when the first failed...Actions speak louder than words...................

And in 1958 -

Donktosh said that a friend or friends of his were blowing up the Turkish Embassy:-

Emin Dirvana, then Turkish Ambassador to Cyprus, explains what Denktash means, in an article in "Milliyet" (5.15.64)

"...I was informed that on the 7th of June, 1958, a bomb had been planted in the Turkish Press Office in Nicosia by persons who, as was established later, had nothing to do with the Greek Cypriots. The Turks of Nicosia were then incited (...) and perpetrated acts similar to those committed on the 6th and the 7th of September, 1955 in Istanbul."

In an interview given by Denktash to the British television channel ITV for the programme "Cyprus: Britain's Grim Legacy", he said:

"There was an explosion at the information bureau of the Turkish Consulate. A crowd had already gathered there, a crowd of the Turkish Cypriot community. And they almost immediately decided that Greeks had done it and they were swearing vengeance against the Greeks and so on." "The explosion started a night of riots in Nicosia. Turkish Cypriots burned and looted Greek shops and homes. Soon came counter-attacks and the fighting spread round the island. Later on, a friend of mine, whose name must still be kept secret, was to confess to me that he had put this little bomb in their doorway in order to create an atmosphere of tension so that people would know that Turkish Cypriots mattered."

(Source as above)

Admited....The biggest mistake that Denktas made in all his time.....He really thought that it would stop Makarios' illegal aims of ENOSIS......etc.

Gawd I feel faint but Donktosh doesn't say in the above that it was" the biggest mistake he made in all his time... etc" (He may have conceded this elsewhere). What he says is that his friend planted the bomb to "create an atmosphere of tension".

Regretfully they succeeded in doing just this.

Before I begin, I must say that I am not sticking up for Denktash. One point missing in this article is, when he says his friend came later and told him (Denktash) that he had planted the bomb, did he say that Denktash had ordered it? I am just curious. Could it have been that his 'friend' was merely behaving stupidly, trying to curry favour with Denktash? Does anybody know if it was planted with Denktash prior knowledge.

As a result of those riots I remember the enormous Ford Garage was burnt down near the Kyrenia gate. There was a lot of confusion at the time. After that the northern part of the walled city became the Turkish sector.

As far as I remember this is an accurate transcript of what Donktosh said. He never says he ordered it or whether he knew about it in advance. The interview is available on utube. I will look for it and post it.

[bill cobbett]

Yes, what would their next lame conspiracy be i wonder, once they finally get it into their thick skulls that Turkey does not actually have any "expansionist policies" as some idiots here like to keep babbling on about.

What will they actually whinge about once it is as clear as the Cypriot sky that Turkey did actually come for a PEACE OPERATION!

One just cant help but wonder......

Came across these snippets which shed some light on these expansionist dreams.

In 1954, nine years before intercommunal conflict broke out in 1963, the then Foreign Minister of Turkey F. Koprufu, declared that Cyprus is an "extention of continental Turkey", and that it should revert to Turkey "on the basis of geographical proximity."

At the tripartite conference on Cyprus in August-September 1955, the then Turkish Foreign Minister, Zorlu, stated:
"...The importance of Cyprus to Turkey does not arise from a single cause; it is a necessity which emanates from the exigencies of history, geography, economy and military strategy, from the right to existence and security, which is the most sacred of every state, in short, from the very nature of things."

The Turkish journalist and historian A. Gurkan, in "Kibris Postasi" (12.20.83) put it quite succintly when he said:
"Speaking from a purely strategic point of view we could say that for Turkey's security, a safe Cyprus is a Cyprus which would be, in its entirety, under Turkish control."

Gunnes, former Turkish FM :-
"Cyprus is as precious as the right arm of a country which cares for her defence or her expansionist aims if she harbours any. If we don't keep in mind this strategic importance of Cyprus, we cannot understand the peace operation of 20 July or rather it is impossible to understand the whole Cyprus crisis...
Many states, to a certain extent because it suits their interest, want to see the Cyprus problem merely as our desire to protect the Turkish community on the island. Whereas the actual problem is the security of 45 million Turks in the motherland together with the Turks in the island and the maintenance of the balance in the Middle East."

By Ozal, (...) Prime Minister of Turkey who, referring to the UDI (NB. unilateral declaration of independence of the occupied part) of November 1983, said:
"Cyprus is an island which pierces the middle of Turkey like a dagger. It is extremely vital from the viewpoint of our security. This island should not be in enemy hands. The existence of the Turks in northern Cyprus is a guarantee in this direction."

( All from mideastinfo.com)


------

.....cutting and pasting back to the north

What is the point you are makng here Bill. Way back in 1954 they said this they said that. So what. In 1974 the Greeks took action and toppled down a legal goverment and tried for Enosis. Why bother with what they (the Turks) thought instead of what the Junta and Eoka B did.

Shagaman is taking part in a debate on the subject of RoT expansionism and Cyprus. Each of the quotes posted give the views of some of the RoT leadership on the subject between 1954 and 1983. These are the views of the decision makers in the RoT. Clearly these views are pertinent to the discussion and they speak for themselves.

[denizaksulu]

And in 1963 the Greeks started to killthe TCs to get ENOSIS and then in 1974 the Greeks staged a Coup to do the same again when the first failed...Actions speak louder than words...................

And in 1958 -

Donktosh said that a friend or friends of his were blowing up the Turkish Embassy:-

Emin Dirvana, then Turkish Ambassador to Cyprus, explains what Denktash means, in an article in "Milliyet" (5.15.64)

"...I was informed that on the 7th of June, 1958, a bomb had been planted in the Turkish Press Office in Nicosia by persons who, as was established later, had nothing to do with the Greek Cypriots. The Turks of Nicosia were then incited (...) and perpetrated acts similar to those committed on the 6th and the 7th of September, 1955 in Istanbul."

In an interview given by Denktash to the British television channel ITV for the programme "Cyprus: Britain's Grim Legacy", he said:

"There was an explosion at the information bureau of the Turkish Consulate. A crowd had already gathered there, a crowd of the Turkish Cypriot community. And they almost immediately decided that Greeks had done it and they were swearing vengeance against the Greeks and so on." "The explosion started a night of riots in Nicosia. Turkish Cypriots burned and looted Greek shops and homes. Soon came counter-attacks and the fighting spread round the island. Later on, a friend of mine, whose name must still be kept secret, was to confess to me that he had put this little bomb in their doorway in order to create an atmosphere of tension so that people would know that Turkish Cypriots mattered."

(Source as above)

Admited....The biggest mistake that Denktas made in all his time.....He really thought that it would stop Makarios' illegal aims of ENOSIS......etc.

Gawd I feel faint but Donktosh doesn't say in the above that it was" the biggest mistake he made in all his time... etc" (He may have conceded this elsewhere). What he says is that his friend planted the bomb to "create an atmosphere of tension".

Regretfully they succeeded in doing just this.

Before I begin, I must say that I am not sticking up for Denktash. One point missing in this article is, when he says his friend came later and told him (Denktash) that he had planted the bomb, did he say that Denktash had ordered it? I am just curious. Could it have been that his 'friend' was merely behaving stupidly, trying to curry favour with Denktash? Does anybody know if it was planted with Denktash prior knowledge.

As a result of those riots I remember the enormous Ford Garage was burnt down near the Kyrenia gate. There was a lot of confusion at the time. After that the northern part of the walled city became the Turkish sector.

As far as I remember this is an accurate transcript of what Donktosh said. He never says he ordered it or whether he knew about it in advance. The interview is available on utube. I will look for it and post it.

I have seen the interview many times, thanks to Piratis. Bless him.

[bill cobbett]

Any reference for the interview please D. Am having trouble finding it.

[denizaksulu]

Any reference for the interview please D. Am having trouble finding it.

I often have the same problem finding past posts on the forum. So difficult amongst so many. I will try. You could search Piratis posts. It may be quicker. Lets see who gets there first.