Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kikapu]

Yes, what would their next lame conspiracy be i wonder, once they finally get it into their thick skulls that Turkey does not actually have any "expansionist policies" as some idiots here like to keep babbling on about.

What will they actually whinge about once it is as clear as the Cypriot sky that Turkey did actually come for a PEACE OPERATION!

One just cant help but wonder......

Shah,

It is also fair to say, that Cyprus entering the EU in 2004 has also changed what ever plans Turkey may have had for Northern Cyprus back in 1974. The island was closed off for the first 30 years don't forget. With veto power over Turkey's eventual EU entry hopes may have in fact brought about new attitude in bringing peace to the island. I personally believe, that 2004 was a history altering new course for Cyprus with the EU entry. On the other hand, did Erdogan check with his Generals before making such statements in offering to remove the Turkish Troops. After all, Erdogan may not even have a job in 3 months time.!!!!!

Still, if unacceptable demands are made by Erdogan for the GC's to accept, then talking about troop withdrawal is just academic.

To use your own words....

Still, if unacceptable demands are made by GCs for the TC's to accept, then talking about troop withdrawal is just academic.

At least we all agree, that Turkey is calling the shots and not the TC's.!!

If the expectation by the TC's from the GC's to accept the 2004 AP all over again when it was rejected by 75% , then there won't be any agreement for peace. If on the other hand, the TC's will accept just and fair settlement under a True Federation and True Democracy, then the troops can go home the next day after signing the agreement.

So VP, stop pissing around and tell us. Do you want just and fair peace with True Federation and True Democracy, or are you going to insist on a plan just like 2004 AP with Racist, Undemocratic, and violations of Human Rights on the majority of Cypriots. If it's the latter, then the next peace talks will be when Turkey starts begging Cyprus to let her into the EU, or allow her to get
"Privileged EU Membership" in about 20 years from now. In the meantime, the "Midnight Express" flights will continue as they are now, since embargoes and recognition will not come. At the same time, expect the economy in the North to start declining with the collapse of the Turkish Lira if it takes too long for Turkey to get into the EU, unless of course, the country will once again become under "Martial Law", in which case, the international investors will pull out their money and the Istanbul Stock Exchange also collapses.

man o man...Is all this written on your ass and more to the point...How the hell do you get to read it or is GR reading it to you whilst he does the business???

SAY WHAT.???

[zan]

Yes, what would their next lame conspiracy be i wonder, once they finally get it into their thick skulls that Turkey does not actually have any "expansionist policies" as some idiots here like to keep babbling on about.

What will they actually whinge about once it is as clear as the Cypriot sky that Turkey did actually come for a PEACE OPERATION!

One just cant help but wonder......

Shah,

It is also fair to say, that Cyprus entering the EU in 2004 has also changed what ever plans Turkey may have had for Northern Cyprus back in 1974. The island was closed off for the first 30 years don't forget. With veto power over Turkey's eventual EU entry hopes may have in fact brought about new attitude in bringing peace to the island. I personally believe, that 2004 was a history altering new course for Cyprus with the EU entry. On the other hand, did Erdogan check with his Generals before making such statements in offering to remove the Turkish Troops. After all, Erdogan may not even have a job in 3 months time.!!!!!

Still, if unacceptable demands are made by Erdogan for the GC's to accept, then talking about troop withdrawal is just academic.

To use your own words....

Still, if unacceptable demands are made by GCs for the TC's to accept, then talking about troop withdrawal is just academic.

At least we all agree, that Turkey is calling the shots and not the TC's.!!

If the expectation by the TC's from the GC's to accept the 2004 AP all over again when it was rejected by 75% , then there won't be any agreement for peace. If on the other hand, the TC's will accept just and fair settlement under a True Federation and True Democracy, then the troops can go home the next day after signing the agreement.

So VP, stop pissing around and tell us. Do you want just and fair peace with True Federation and True Democracy, or are you going to insist on a plan just like 2004 AP with Racist, Undemocratic, and violations of Human Rights on the majority of Cypriots. If it's the latter, then the next peace talks will be when Turkey starts begging Cyprus to let her into the EU, or allow her to get
"Privileged EU Membership" in about 20 years from now. In the meantime, the "Midnight Express" flights will continue as they are now, since embargoes and recognition will not come. At the same time, expect the economy in the North to start declining with the collapse of the Turkish Lira if it takes too long for Turkey to get into the EU, unless of course, the country will once again become under "Martial Law", in which case, the international investors will pull out their money and the Istanbul Stock Exchange also collapses.

man o man...Is all this written on your ass and more to the point...How the hell do you get to read it or is GR reading it to you whilst he does the business???

SAY WHAT.???

Man if the writing is that big then even the short sighted GR can see it!!!

[shahmaran]

Yes, what would their next lame conspiracy be i wonder, once they finally get it into their thick skulls that Turkey does not actually have any "expansionist policies" as some idiots here like to keep babbling on about.

What will they actually whinge about once it is as clear as the Cypriot sky that Turkey did actually come for a PEACE OPERATION!

One just cant help but wonder......

Shah,

It is also fair to say, that Cyprus entering the EU in 2004 has also changed what ever plans Turkey may have had for Northern Cyprus back in 1974. The island was closed off for the first 30 years don't forget. With veto power over Turkey's eventual EU entry hopes may have in fact brought about new attitude in bringing peace to the island. I personally believe, that 2004 was a history altering new course for Cyprus with the EU entry. On the other hand, did Erdogan check with his Generals before making such statements in offering to remove the Turkish Troops. After all, Erdogan may not even have a job in 3 months time.!!!!!

Still, if unacceptable demands are made by Erdogan for the GC's to accept, then talking about troop withdrawal is just academic.

If i remember correctly a similar article was posted not long ago which made the same point and they were the words of Buyukanit. I really do not believe that Turkey has expansionist policies, Turkey has much more important issues to deal with and occupying the North of Cyprus surely does not bring them much advantage (military wise maybe), if anything they would be much better off without us economically.

Yes, Turkeys policies MIGHT have changed with the South joining the EU as you say, but then the same goes for the South, and that their policies changed when Turkey came here. They had to be changed by force, and im really glad that they did.

But what do you do, Generals come and go, politicians come and go, agendas change its politics and nothing more, but one thing doesn't seem to change however and that is the Greek discrimination and determination to rid the island from all ethnicity's who refuse to live under their hegemony.

[zan]

Yes, what would their next lame conspiracy be i wonder, once they finally get it into their thick skulls that Turkey does not actually have any "expansionist policies" as some idiots here like to keep babbling on about.

What will they actually whinge about once it is as clear as the Cypriot sky that Turkey did actually come for a PEACE OPERATION!

One just cant help but wonder......

Shah,

It is also fair to say, that Cyprus entering the EU in 2004 has also changed what ever plans Turkey may have had for Northern Cyprus back in 1974. The island was closed off for the first 30 years don't forget. With veto power over Turkey's eventual EU entry hopes may have in fact brought about new attitude in bringing peace to the island. I personally believe, that 2004 was a history altering new course for Cyprus with the EU entry. On the other hand, did Erdogan check with his Generals before making such statements in offering to remove the Turkish Troops. After all, Erdogan may not even have a job in 3 months time.!!!!!

Still, if unacceptable demands are made by Erdogan for the GC's to accept, then talking about troop withdrawal is just academic.

If i remember correctly a similar article was posted not long ago which made the same point and they were the words of Buyukanit. I really do not believe that Turkey has expansionist policies, Turkey has much more important issues to deal with and occupying the North of Cyprus surely does not bring them much advantage (military wise maybe), if anything they would be much better off without us economically.

Yes, Turkeys policies MIGHT have changed with the South joining the EU as you say, but then the same goes for the South, and that their policies changed when Turkey came here. They had to be changed by force, and im really glad that they did.

But what do you do, Generals come and go, politicians come and go, agendas change its politics and nothing more, but one thing doesn't seem to change however and that is the Greek discrimination and determination to rid the island from all ethnicity's who refuse to live under their hegemony.

I think you have missed the part where he said "when an agreement is reached" which willmean that Turkey has the foothold it needs. I think we should stop messing around and realise that Turkey and Greece will not let go. This is all about drilling rights and oil is the be all and end all. the fact that the "RoC" still wants to pair up with Greece to drill for the oil is a very real danger and why we TCs must be careful not to get rid of Turkey. The ones who say that Greece is out of the picture are the blindest and or the most corrupt of all. I don't believe that either Turkey or Greece have expansionist dreams at all. That is almost impossible this day and age but drilling rights are not. The "RoC" definatly does not want to share with the TCs or Turkey.

[bill cobbett]

Yes, what would their next lame conspiracy be i wonder, once they finally get it into their thick skulls that Turkey does not actually have any "expansionist policies" as some idiots here like to keep babbling on about.

What will they actually whinge about once it is as clear as the Cypriot sky that Turkey did actually come for a PEACE OPERATION!

One just cant help but wonder......

Came across these snippets which shed some light on these expansionist dreams.

In 1954, nine years before intercommunal conflict broke out in 1963, the then Foreign Minister of Turkey F. Koprufu, declared that Cyprus is an "extention of continental Turkey", and that it should revert to Turkey "on the basis of geographical proximity."

At the tripartite conference on Cyprus in August-September 1955, the then Turkish Foreign Minister, Zorlu, stated:
"...The importance of Cyprus to Turkey does not arise from a single cause; it is a necessity which emanates from the exigencies of history, geography, economy and military strategy, from the right to existence and security, which is the most sacred of every state, in short, from the very nature of things."

The Turkish journalist and historian A. Gurkan, in "Kibris Postasi" (12.20.83) put it quite succintly when he said:
"Speaking from a purely strategic point of view we could say that for Turkey's security, a safe Cyprus is a Cyprus which would be, in its entirety, under Turkish control."

Gunnes, former Turkish FM :-
"Cyprus is as precious as the right arm of a country which cares for her defence or her expansionist aims if she harbours any. If we don't keep in mind this strategic importance of Cyprus, we cannot understand the peace operation of 20 July or rather it is impossible to understand the whole Cyprus crisis...
Many states, to a certain extent because it suits their interest, want to see the Cyprus problem merely as our desire to protect the Turkish community on the island. Whereas the actual problem is the security of 45 million Turks in the motherland together with the Turks in the island and the maintenance of the balance in the Middle East."

By Ozal, (...) Prime Minister of Turkey who, referring to the UDI (NB. unilateral declaration of independence of the occupied part) of November 1983, said:
"Cyprus is an island which pierces the middle of Turkey like a dagger. It is extremely vital from the viewpoint of our security. This island should not be in enemy hands. The existence of the Turks in northern Cyprus is a guarantee in this direction."

( All from mideastinfo.com)


------

.....cutting and pasting back to the north

[zan]

And in 1963 the Greeks started to killthe TCs to get ENOSIS and then in 1974 the Greeks staged a Coup to do the same again when the first failed...Actions speak louder than words...................

[Filitsa]

ERDOGAN SAYS TURKISH AND GREEK TROOPS IN CYPRUS CAN BE WITHDRAWN ONCE PEACE IS ACHIEVED

Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan has stressed that all troops based in Cyprus will simultaneously be withdrawn from the island once peace is achieved.
The Turkish Premier said Turkey is maintaining its stance on the issue of troops in Cyprus.

`Troops issue is the final issue to be dealt with. Once everyone completes his duty and everything is put in order, that’s when we will take a step on the issue` he added.

Answering the questions of the Greek Cypriot Ambassador to Stockholm during the meeting -who asked if Turkey would play a positive role in the maintenance of political will towards a solution and if it was ready for the withdrawal of troops within this context-, Mr Erdogan said `We want Cyprus to be an island where there is bi-zonality and the enjoyment of equal political rights. We are ready to do all we can towards realizing this. Once Cyprus becomes the island of peace, then Turkish and Greek troops can be withdrawn simultaneously`.

Reminding that the Turkish Cypriot side is the first side to demolish the wall at the Lokmaci Barricade and the Gate is now mutually opened following the agreement reached between TC leader Mehmet Ali Talat and the Greek Cypriot Leader Dimitris Christofias, Erdogan emphasized that North Cyprus and Turkey are on the side of peace, not on the side of fighting.

Turkish Prime Minister added that Turkey had earlier put its signature on an agreement which envisaged the time and conditions for the withdrawal of troops from the island during Cyprus talks held in Switzerland and said Turkey is staying behind its signature.

1. This is not newsworthy because it contains nothing new, and 2. who is to determines when peace is achieved and by what standards?

[bill cobbett]

And in 1963 the Greeks started to killthe TCs to get ENOSIS and then in 1974 the Greeks staged a Coup to do the same again when the first failed...Actions speak louder than words...................

And in 1958 -

Donktosh said that a friend or friends of his were blowing up the Turkish Embassy:-

Emin Dirvana, then Turkish Ambassador to Cyprus, explains what Denktash means, in an article in "Milliyet" (5.15.64)

"...I was informed that on the 7th of June, 1958, a bomb had been planted in the Turkish Press Office in Nicosia by persons who, as was established later, had nothing to do with the Greek Cypriots. The Turks of Nicosia were then incited (...) and perpetrated acts similar to those committed on the 6th and the 7th of September, 1955 in Istanbul."

In an interview given by Denktash to the British television channel ITV for the programme "Cyprus: Britain's Grim Legacy", he said:

"There was an explosion at the information bureau of the Turkish Consulate. A crowd had already gathered there, a crowd of the Turkish Cypriot community. And they almost immediately decided that Greeks had done it and they were swearing vengeance against the Greeks and so on." "The explosion started a night of riots in Nicosia. Turkish Cypriots burned and looted Greek shops and homes. Soon came counter-attacks and the fighting spread round the island. Later on, a friend of mine, whose name must still be kept secret, was to confess to me that he had put this little bomb in their doorway in order to create an atmosphere of tension so that people would know that Turkish Cypriots mattered."

(Source as above)

[Kikapu]

ERDOGAN SAYS TURKISH AND GREEK TROOPS IN CYPRUS CAN BE WITHDRAWN ONCE PEACE IS ACHIEVED

Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan has stressed that all troops based in Cyprus will simultaneously be withdrawn from the island once peace is achieved.
The Turkish Premier said Turkey is maintaining its stance on the issue of troops in Cyprus.

`Troops issue is the final issue to be dealt with. Once everyone completes his duty and everything is put in order, that’s when we will take a step on the issue` he added.

Answering the questions of the Greek Cypriot Ambassador to Stockholm during the meeting -who asked if Turkey would play a positive role in the maintenance of political will towards a solution and if it was ready for the withdrawal of troops within this context-, Mr Erdogan said `We want Cyprus to be an island where there is bi-zonality and the enjoyment of equal political rights. We are ready to do all we can towards realizing this. Once Cyprus becomes the island of peace, then Turkish and Greek troops can be withdrawn simultaneously`.

Reminding that the Turkish Cypriot side is the first side to demolish the wall at the Lokmaci Barricade and the Gate is now mutually opened following the agreement reached between TC leader Mehmet Ali Talat and the Greek Cypriot Leader Dimitris Christofias, Erdogan emphasized that North Cyprus and Turkey are on the side of peace, not on the side of fighting.

Turkish Prime Minister added that Turkey had earlier put its signature on an agreement which envisaged the time and conditions for the withdrawal of troops from the island during Cyprus talks held in Switzerland and said Turkey is staying behind its signature.

1. This is not newsworthy because it contains nothing new, and 2. who is to determines when peace is achieved and by what standards?

It's like winning the "War on Drugs" in the USA.!!!!!!!!!

The other is, the "War on Terror".!!

When does one know that they have won.???

They don't.!!!

[zan]

And in 1963 the Greeks started to killthe TCs to get ENOSIS and then in 1974 the Greeks staged a Coup to do the same again when the first failed...Actions speak louder than words...................

And in 1958 -

Donktosh said that a friend or friends of his were blowing up the Turkish Embassy:-

Emin Dirvana, then Turkish Ambassador to Cyprus, explains what Denktash means, in an article in "Milliyet" (5.15.64)

"...I was informed that on the 7th of June, 1958, a bomb had been planted in the Turkish Press Office in Nicosia by persons who, as was established later, had nothing to do with the Greek Cypriots. The Turks of Nicosia were then incited (...) and perpetrated acts similar to those committed on the 6th and the 7th of September, 1955 in Istanbul."

In an interview given by Denktash to the British television channel ITV for the programme "Cyprus: Britain's Grim Legacy", he said:

"There was an explosion at the information bureau of the Turkish Consulate. A crowd had already gathered there, a crowd of the Turkish Cypriot community. And they almost immediately decided that Greeks had done it and they were swearing vengeance against the Greeks and so on." "The explosion started a night of riots in Nicosia. Turkish Cypriots burned and looted Greek shops and homes. Soon came counter-attacks and the fighting spread round the island. Later on, a friend of mine, whose name must still be kept secret, was to confess to me that he had put this little bomb in their doorway in order to create an atmosphere of tension so that people would know that Turkish Cypriots mattered."

(Source as above)

Admited....The biggest mistake that Denktas made in all his time.....He really thought that it would stop Makarios' illegal aims of ENOSIS.......