Cyprus-Forum.com

[CopperLine]

Oracle, I'm not going to bother taking apart this bullshit about memes. Suffice to say that there is a very good reason why 'socio-biology' is regarded as a pseudo-science and the last refuge of deranged racist 'science'.

[Get Real!]

First, there is a basic conflict of interests.

System operators better known as "sysops", have had this dilemma ever since the very first BBS (bulleting board) was setup and the solution was for the sysop to also have a "member" account which could be used to participate as one of the lads to express his/her personal opinion.

It is therefore safe to assume that every sysop has two accounts; one as an administrator for obvious reasons, and one as a "normal" member... the latter of course being the most difficult to exercise because it is achieved at varying degrees of impartiality from sysop to sysop.

As someone who has been active on Bulletin boards since the Fidonet days, I have seen MANY sysops at work & play, and have to admit that if Piratis is indeed the sysop here then we must congratulate him for a near perfect job. Trust me…

[Oracle]

Piratis,
If, as it appears, you are a moderator on this forum, your latest posts on this thread were, I regret to say, a sheer disgrace.

First, there is a basic conflict of interests. On the one hand you are in a position to delete or block posts and on the other hand you are a frequent poster.

Second, your posts on this thread betray a basic inability to distinguish the moral, legal and political difference between an action and a thought. How on earth can you seriously equate an act of killing, say, with the thought of killing !

Third, you make an outrageous slur - tantamount to a libel - on people by saying that because some persons of group X were murdered by some persons of group Y then any and all individuals of group Y are murderers or accomplices in crime. This is manifestly absurd. Without a doubt there are Greek Cypriots who have killed Turkish Cypriots, but I cannot possibly therefore conclude that all Greek Cypriots are TC killers. (But notice that Oracle's argument is exactly this, but its mirror image. How many times has she posted that Turks are inherently aggressive, expansionist, liars, cheats, killers, murderers, ethnic cleansers, etc ? And yet you conclude that it is OK for her to pollute this forum with such racist and offensive ideas.


(You say that you are motivated by a desire to uphold human rights, right ? Well how about starting with the human right to be judged for individual actions, not to be subjected to collective judgements and punishments, to be allowed access to and shown evidence of alleged crimes, and for a fair hearing. In what you are doing here you are acting as investigator, prosecutor, judge and jury; you are charging people with offences that they did not actually commit; and then you are refusing the accused from speaking in their own defence, and the damning them if they have the temerity to criticise).

And yet, fourth, when someone repeatedly makes such a manifestly racist argument you turn a blind eye as moderator and punish those who seek to point out both the stupidity and offensiveness of such postings.

It is unfortunate you chose not to see, how you choose to ignore, the posts of Viewpoint, Zan, Shahmaran, Big Al, Eric dayi, Epatkiwi, and countless others but only pick on Oracle. Which you have exclusively, persistently, selectively isolated.

How fair is that?

And by choosing to ignore their "racist" comments you have condemned yourself to condoning anti-Greek /GC "racism".

Henceforth you are a self-outed "racist".

What is the rational behind your bias?

For biased you undeniably are ... not just now, but in nearly every post I have read of yours.

What's more you do not add to the sum of knowledge, but prefer to criticise posters ... correction just one or two "select" posters from one end of the "spectrum".

"Racist" CopperLine in denial

You assume superiority above posters, moderators and Adminisrators and deem yourself as the only one non-partisan, and without prior participation in the discussion, to present a verdict.

Well CopperLine it is obvious to me from your posts, that you love the Turks and hate the Greeks .... Am I wrong?

(... and we shan't even mention the complex case of TCs and GCs).

[Eric dayi]

I have never seen any GC member commenting on the TCs legitemately owning any portion of the island. Are we illegal immigrants, do we not belong on the island at all? Should we be kicked out of Cyprus? If we all volunteered to leave would it make the GCs the happiest people on the planet? Would it make Oracle really happy?



The sooner you all look at the logs in your own eyes and stop picking on me, the better for all of us including the forum.

Contrary to popular belief I do not look for attention (I prefer solitude) ..... this like much else, has been thrust upon me because Big Al could not cope with my arguments this morning.

Whenever a Turk-TC or other fails to win an argument, they indeed are the ones, observer, to throw the tantrums and start threads such as this or the hurling of obscenities. They are the ones showing their knickers for attention because they fail in the discussions ....

I started a thread a while back to ask why the Cyprus problem is exclusively male ....

Well this is the reason why.

Any women participating in the Cyprus problem are hounded and picked on like this until they pack up and leave ....

Well get used to it I am here to stay for as long as I choose ... and because I stay ... you lot get angrier and angrier because you cannot face making up any more lies to counter the reasons why you occupy half my country.[/color]
You or any other misguided Turk is not going to ridicule me off the forum with your disgusting mouths ...[color=red]I will ridicule you out of my country first

Just to put you in the picture, South Cyprus belongs to Greeks who elect murdering EOKA terrorists and communists as their "Presidents" and North Cyprus, also called the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus, belongs to the Turkish Cypriots.

In other words, Cyprus does NOT belong to the Greeks.

[Piratis]

Piratis,
If, as it appears, you are a moderator on this forum, your latest posts on this thread were, I regret to say, a sheer disgrace.

First, there is a basic conflict of interests. On the one hand you are in a position to delete or block posts and on the other hand you are a frequent poster.

First (a) I am not a moderator in this section and (b) how is this related to the discussion here? Apparently you have no arguments to counter mine and therefore you choose to try to silence me and, as we see below, distort what I said.

Second, your posts on this thread betray a basic inability to distinguish the moral, legal and political difference between an action and a thought. How on earth can you seriously equate an act of killing, say, with the thought of killing !

On the contrary it is you who is unable to distinguish the two. You accuse oracle for racism because her words can be racist, while you are blind to the racist words and actions of some of the members in here, who with their votes and their support to illegalities and the occupation regime they deny to 100s of thousands of people their lands and their human rights simply because they are Greek Cypriots.

Third, you make an outrageous slur - tantamount to a libel - on people by saying that because some persons of group X were murdered by some persons of group Y then any and all individuals of group Y are murderers or accomplices in crime. This is manifestly absurd. Without a doubt there are Greek Cypriots who have killed Turkish Cypriots, but I cannot possibly therefore conclude that all Greek Cypriots are TC killers. (But notice that Oracle's argument is exactly this, but its mirror image. How many times has she posted that Turks are inherently aggressive, expansionist, liars, cheats, killers, murderers, ethnic cleansers, etc ? And yet you conclude that it is OK for her to pollute this forum with such racist and offensive ideas.

(You say that you are motivated by a desire to uphold human rights, right ? Well how about starting with the human right to be judged for individual actions, not to be subjected to collective judgements and punishments, to be allowed access to and shown evidence of alleged crimes, and for a fair hearing. In what you are doing here you are acting as investigator, prosecutor, judge and jury; you are charging people with offences that they did not actually commit; and then you are refusing the accused from speaking in their own defence, and the damning them if they have the temerity to criticise).

I never said that "all X are murderers" don't put words in my mouth. On the contrary it is people like you who want to convict a whole community by using as an excuse what a handful of people have done several decades ago.
Yes, I point to the TCs and Turks that they (in general) have committed a lot more crimes against us than the other way around. This is just a historical fact. I don't hold each individual TC or Turk responsible for each of those crimes though, and this is why I demand no punishment for any of them.
What I hold responsible some of the TC members here is their own actions of supporting crimes and human rights violations against a whole community, something that is clearly very racist.

So you should go to give your lectures about "the human right to be judged for individual actions, not to be subjected to collective judgements and punishments..." to some of your friends in here, not to me. Because they are the ones who need to hear them since they demand that 100s of thousands of innocent GCs should be punished and have their lands taken away from them just because the Turkish distrorded version of history has judged that all GCs are "evils" that deserve to be punished and all TCs are "angels" that deserve to have gains on the loss of the "evil" GCs.

And yet, fourth, when someone repeatedly makes such a manifestly racist argument you turn a blind eye as moderator and punish those who seek to point out both the stupidity and offensiveness of such postings.

And whom did I punish? I simply pointed out the hypocrisy of some of the members here who accuse one member of being a racist, while they are bigger racists themselves.

If you feel bad/pissed/disgusted etc about the racist words of Oracle (and I do too), then believe me, we feel the same about the racist words and actions of some of the TC members against us. So if we are able to tolerate those people and manage to talk to them without personal attacks and swearing, then I am sure you can manage with Oracle as well.

[Expatkiwi]

That’s a lie! I often stress that 12.3% of land was purchased (owned) by Turkish Cypriots.

I know you hotly dispute that 31% TC ownership figure I (hastilly) quoted on Wikipedia, but I thought you had stated that the 'true' T/C land ownership figure was at 18%, so what happened to the other 5.7%?

Incidentally, I read a book on the Cyprus problem, and one of the offers that had been made by the GC leadership (and rejected) was for a federal solution with the Turkish Cypriot component at 25%. Considering that the 12.3% figure of yours is the 'correct' standard, is the GC's really that generous to double that figure in a settlement proposal?

As you already know the 18% often mentioned is based on the population to land ratio but technically if we go by actual title deeds then one can argue that the TC community should be entitled to a proportional percentage of the 26.3% State/Church land in which case using cross-multiplication would yield..

(26.3 x 12.3) / 100 = 3.2349 + 12.3 = 15.54%

Gettinmg back to the land issue, GR, I'm wondering about these property percentage figures of yours based on (a) dates, and (b) sources. Are these figures pre-1963, or pre-1974? If peoperties were expropriated by the RoCy government between those years, then it would be - by your standards - 'legal'. That source (I had quoted to your intense displeasure on Wikipedia) that quoted 31 percent stated that this was the figure before the intercommunal violnce commenced, and that as the Turkish Cypriot populace shrunk into enclaves, a large amount of abandoned properties were expropriated by the RoCy government in lieu of unpaid taxes. Therefore, such change of ownership from Turkish Cypriots to the RoCy government would be - from your point of view - legal. Also, you are quoting figures from the RoCy government, which - and lets be honest - had no vested interest in the Turkish Cypriots well-being at that time. It would not therefore be out of the realm of possibility for official figures to be 'ammended' accordingly. That's why I cannot completely renounce the 31% claim, because there is a chance in my mind that it may be correct. However - and I'll be honest to myself here - as that is the only source that quoted such a high figure (the remainder hovering between 12 and 20 percent for T/C owned land percentages), it could also well be very wrong. The lack of a clear - independent - source of property data thus is the biggest impediment to answering this question because the final number is going to determine to a large extent how trhe final settlement is going to be done (that is, if there is going to be reunification, which I still do not think will work).

[denizaksulu]

Piratis,
If, as it appears, you are a moderator on this forum, your latest posts on this thread were, I regret to say, a sheer disgrace.

First, there is a basic conflict of interests. On the one hand you are in a position to delete or block posts and on the other hand you are a frequent poster.

Second, your posts on this thread betray a basic inability to distinguish the moral, legal and political difference between an action and a thought. How on earth can you seriously equate an act of killing, say, with the thought of killing !

Third, you make an outrageous slur - tantamount to a libel - on people by saying that because some persons of group X were murdered by some persons of group Y then any and all individuals of group Y are murderers or accomplices in crime. This is manifestly absurd. Without a doubt there are Greek Cypriots who have killed Turkish Cypriots, but I cannot possibly therefore conclude that all Greek Cypriots are TC killers. (But notice that Oracle's argument is exactly this, but its mirror image. How many times has she posted that Turks are inherently aggressive, expansionist, liars, cheats, killers, murderers, ethnic cleansers, etc ? And yet you conclude that it is OK for her to pollute this forum with such racist and offensive ideas.


(You say that you are motivated by a desire to uphold human rights, right ? Well how about starting with the human right to be judged for individual actions, not to be subjected to collective judgements and punishments, to be allowed access to and shown evidence of alleged crimes, and for a fair hearing. In what you are doing here you are acting as investigator, prosecutor, judge and jury; you are charging people with offences that they did not actually commit; and then you are refusing the accused from speaking in their own defence, and the damning them if they have the temerity to criticise).

And yet, fourth, when someone repeatedly makes such a manifestly racist argument you turn a blind eye as moderator and punish those who seek to point out both the stupidity and offensiveness of such postings.

Well put Copperline.

What we see here is Mein Kampf Mk II as written by Oracle.

She is still alowed to post such racist dribble and obviously Piratis (a moderator? God help us) condones these racist dribbles.

[Piratis]

And where did you see me condoning them?

I am simply saying that you are hypocrites when you accuse Oracle for racism when many of you support the ethnic cleansing of 100s of thousands of GCs and the stealing of their lands (claiming them to be supposedly Turkish!!!), which is a racist action that affects the lives of all those people, and not just some racist words who have no actual effect on anybody apart maybe from pissing some people off.

I am not a moderator in this section, but if I was be sure I would be fair, I wouldn't be the kind of "judges" you have in Turkey where the Turks are allowed to physically harm and offend everybody they want, while others are not even allowed to talk.

So stop the crap my friend. You attack Oracle not because she is racist (otherwise you would also attack Big Al, Eric Dayi and many other TCs) but you attack her for the same reasons you attack me and every other Greek Cypriot who opposes your racist and criminal actions against us.

[zan]

Piratis,
If, as it appears, you are a moderator on this forum, your latest posts on this thread were, I regret to say, a sheer disgrace.

First, there is a basic conflict of interests. On the one hand you are in a position to delete or block posts and on the other hand you are a frequent poster.

Second, your posts on this thread betray a basic inability to distinguish the moral, legal and political difference between an action and a thought. How on earth can you seriously equate an act of killing, say, with the thought of killing !

Third, you make an outrageous slur - tantamount to a libel - on people by saying that because some persons of group X were murdered by some persons of group Y then any and all individuals of group Y are murderers or accomplices in crime. This is manifestly absurd. Without a doubt there are Greek Cypriots who have killed Turkish Cypriots, but I cannot possibly therefore conclude that all Greek Cypriots are TC killers. (But notice that Oracle's argument is exactly this, but its mirror image. How many times has she posted that Turks are inherently aggressive, expansionist, liars, cheats, killers, murderers, ethnic cleansers, etc ? And yet you conclude that it is OK for her to pollute this forum with such racist and offensive ideas.


(You say that you are motivated by a desire to uphold human rights, right ? Well how about starting with the human right to be judged for individual actions, not to be subjected to collective judgements and punishments, to be allowed access to and shown evidence of alleged crimes, and for a fair hearing. In what you are doing here you are acting as investigator, prosecutor, judge and jury; you are charging people with offences that they did not actually commit; and then you are refusing the accused from speaking in their own defence, and the damning them if they have the temerity to criticise).

And yet, fourth, when someone repeatedly makes such a manifestly racist argument you turn a blind eye as moderator and punish those who seek to point out both the stupidity and offensiveness of such postings.

It is unfortunate you chose not to see, how you choose to ignore, the posts of Viewpoint, Zan, Shahmaran, Big Al, Eric dayi, Epatkiwi, and countless others but only pick on Oracle. Which you have exclusively, persistently, selectively isolated.

How fair is that?

And by choosing to ignore their "racist" comments you have condemned yourself to condoning anti-Greek /GC "racism".

Henceforth you are a self-outed "racist".

What is the rational behind your bias?

For biased you undeniably are ... not just now, but in nearly every post I have read of yours.

What's more you do not add to the sum of knowledge, but prefer to criticise posters ... correction just one or two "select" posters from one end of the "spectrum".

"Racist" CopperLine in denial

You assume superiority above posters, moderators and Adminisrators and deem yourself as the only one non-partisan, and without prior participation in the discussion, to present a verdict.

Well CopperLine it is obvious to me from your posts, that you love the Turks and hate the Greeks .... Am I wrong?

(... and we shan't even mention the complex case of TCs and GCs).

They are aimed at you and the GC leaders you silly cow How many more times do I have tto say that...Not only a racist but a lier too

[denizaksulu]

Piratis,
If, as it appears, you are a moderator on this forum, your latest posts on this thread were, I regret to say, a sheer disgrace.

First, there is a basic conflict of interests. On the one hand you are in a position to delete or block posts and on the other hand you are a frequent poster.

Second, your posts on this thread betray a basic inability to distinguish the moral, legal and political difference between an action and a thought. How on earth can you seriously equate an act of killing, say, with the thought of killing !

Third, you make an outrageous slur - tantamount to a libel - on people by saying that because some persons of group X were murdered by some persons of group Y then any and all individuals of group Y are murderers or accomplices in crime. This is manifestly absurd. Without a doubt there are Greek Cypriots who have killed Turkish Cypriots, but I cannot possibly therefore conclude that all Greek Cypriots are TC killers. (But notice that Oracle's argument is exactly this, but its mirror image. How many times has she posted that Turks are inherently aggressive, expansionist, liars, cheats, killers, murderers, ethnic cleansers, etc ? And yet you conclude that it is OK for her to pollute this forum with such racist and offensive ideas.


(You say that you are motivated by a desire to uphold human rights, right ? Well how about starting with the human right to be judged for individual actions, not to be subjected to collective judgements and punishments, to be allowed access to and shown evidence of alleged crimes, and for a fair hearing. In what you are doing here you are acting as investigator, prosecutor, judge and jury; you are charging people with offences that they did not actually commit; and then you are refusing the accused from speaking in their own defence, and the damning them if they have the temerity to criticise).

And yet, fourth, when someone repeatedly makes such a manifestly racist argument you turn a blind eye as moderator and punish those who seek to point out both the stupidity and offensiveness of such postings.

It is unfortunate you chose not to see, how you choose to ignore, the posts of Viewpoint, Zan, Shahmaran, Big Al, Eric dayi, Epatkiwi, and countless others but only pick on Oracle. Which you have exclusively, persistently, selectively isolated.

How fair is that?

And by choosing to ignore their "racist" comments you have condemned yourself to condoning anti-Greek /GC "racism".

Henceforth you are a self-outed "racist".

What is the rational behind your bias?

For biased you undeniably are ... not just now, but in nearly every post I have read of yours.

What's more you do not add to the sum of knowledge, but prefer to criticise posters ... correction just one or two "select" posters from one end of the "spectrum".

"Racist" CopperLine in denial

You assume superiority above posters, moderators and Adminisrators and deem yourself as the only one non-partisan, and without prior participation in the discussion, to present a verdict.

Well CopperLine it is obvious to me from your posts, that you love the Turks and hate the Greeks .... Am I wrong?

(... and we shan't even mention the complex case of TCs and GCs).

They are aimed at you and the GC leaders you silly cow How many more times do I have tto say that...Not only a racist but a lier too

Perhaps I am persona non-grata Zan. You seem to be receiving my PMs. Something fishy. Why PMs and not e-mail?