Cyprus-Forum.com

[Paphitis]

Deniz asked:

"Were the wives of British servicemen 'fair game' in your opinion? Or were they the work of a few 'hot heads'?"

The attack on the women in Famagusta is to this day one of the puzzles of the EOKA campaign. It was uncharaceristic and it gave rise to a massive and instant retaliation, which we rarely see mentioned in this forum. We lived in Famagusta then and the experience was not at all pleasant. There was also a mass beating of inmates in the internment camp of Kokkinotrimithia in which a family friend lost an eye. How the men who were already in preventive custody without trial could have been involved in the Famagusta incident is baffling, but rationality went out of the window on that day.

And I forgot to mention the dozens of school children that the British Army and police killed, the youngest of which was 12 years old, during school demonstrations.

[denizaksulu]

My father was one of those GCs who volunteered for service during World War II. He served as a non com in the Royal Navy. The inducement to volunteer was the victory of Greece over the Italians in 1940 and the later fight against the Germans. The Greek flag which had been outlawed since 1930, was flown again and the Greek national anthem allowed in schools and public meetings. All of this was used by the British administration to get GCs to volunteer and some thousands did, I heard the figure of 30 000 but I am not sure. There were implied promises of union with Greece after the war.

When the GC veterans came back from WWII they waited for the promises to materialise and instead they got Eden's statement that Cyprus could never be free because of its strategic location.

In view of the above EOKA was a natural outcome. As for the morality of guerrila war, well just read Churchill's "we will fight them on the beaches" speech, it says it all. And there is no real difference betweena pilot who unloads bombs on civlians (80 000 of them in Dresden) and a guerrila who lobs a grenade in a cafe. Let us not be hypocrites about these things.

Were the wives of British servicemen 'fair game' in your opinion? Or were they the work of a few 'hot heads'?

Let me just say this. "Collateral damage". If it is good enough for the Turkish Army and Mr Bush (Iraq war), well............................

Since you split hairs, how can deliberate targetting/singling out be 'colateral damage'? Yes, Cyprus and Iraq was brutal by any standards, but targetting of Brit servicemens womenfolk?

[Paphitis]

My father was one of those GCs who volunteered for service during World War II. He served as a non com in the Royal Navy. The inducement to volunteer was the victory of Greece over the Italians in 1940 and the later fight against the Germans. The Greek flag which had been outlawed since 1930, was flown again and the Greek national anthem allowed in schools and public meetings. All of this was used by the British administration to get GCs to volunteer and some thousands did, I heard the figure of 30 000 but I am not sure. There were implied promises of union with Greece after the war.

When the GC veterans came back from WWII they waited for the promises to materialise and instead they got Eden's statement that Cyprus could never be free because of its strategic location.

In view of the above EOKA was a natural outcome. As for the morality of guerrila war, well just read Churchill's "we will fight them on the beaches" speech, it says it all. And there is no real difference betweena pilot who unloads bombs on civlians (80 000 of them in Dresden) and a guerrila who lobs a grenade in a cafe. Let us not be hypocrites about these things.

Were the wives of British servicemen 'fair game' in your opinion? Or were they the work of a few 'hot heads'?

Let me just say this. "Collateral damage". If it is good enough for the Turkish Army and Mr Bush (Iraq war), well............................

Since you split hairs, how can deliberate targetting/singling out be 'colateral damage'? Yes, Cyprus and Iraq was brutal by any standards, but targetting of Brit servicemens womenfolk?

And what about when the British Police targeted and killed a 12 year old school boy?

[Paphitis]

The 1955 - 1959 EOKA campaign was a war against British imperialism. It was a war against slavery, mass beatings of civilians on the streets who were merely demonstrating, the torture of political prisoners, and slavery of the Cypriot population to the British empire. It was a war for self determination, and freedom.

[denizaksulu]

My father was one of those GCs who volunteered for service during World War II. He served as a non com in the Royal Navy. The inducement to volunteer was the victory of Greece over the Italians in 1940 and the later fight against the Germans. The Greek flag which had been outlawed since 1930, was flown again and the Greek national anthem allowed in schools and public meetings. All of this was used by the British administration to get GCs to volunteer and some thousands did, I heard the figure of 30 000 but I am not sure. There were implied promises of union with Greece after the war.

When the GC veterans came back from WWII they waited for the promises to materialise and instead they got Eden's statement that Cyprus could never be free because of its strategic location.

In view of the above EOKA was a natural outcome. As for the morality of guerrila war, well just read Churchill's "we will fight them on the beaches" speech, it says it all. And there is no real difference betweena pilot who unloads bombs on civlians (80 000 of them in Dresden) and a guerrila who lobs a grenade in a cafe. Let us not be hypocrites about these things.

Were the wives of British servicemen 'fair game' in your opinion? Or were they the work of a few 'hot heads'?

Let me just say this. "Collateral damage". If it is good enough for the Turkish Army and Mr Bush (Iraq war), well............................

Since you split hairs, how can deliberate targetting/singling out be 'colateral damage'? Yes, Cyprus and Iraq was brutal by any standards, but targetting of Brit servicemens womenfolk?

And what about when the British Police targeted and killed a 12 year old school boy?

Not 'colateral damage'. Its murder. Next.

[Paphitis]

My father was one of those GCs who volunteered for service during World War II. He served as a non com in the Royal Navy. The inducement to volunteer was the victory of Greece over the Italians in 1940 and the later fight against the Germans. The Greek flag which had been outlawed since 1930, was flown again and the Greek national anthem allowed in schools and public meetings. All of this was used by the British administration to get GCs to volunteer and some thousands did, I heard the figure of 30 000 but I am not sure. There were implied promises of union with Greece after the war.

When the GC veterans came back from WWII they waited for the promises to materialise and instead they got Eden's statement that Cyprus could never be free because of its strategic location.

In view of the above EOKA was a natural outcome. As for the morality of guerrila war, well just read Churchill's "we will fight them on the beaches" speech, it says it all. And there is no real difference betweena pilot who unloads bombs on civlians (80 000 of them in Dresden) and a guerrila who lobs a grenade in a cafe. Let us not be hypocrites about these things.

Were the wives of British servicemen 'fair game' in your opinion? Or were they the work of a few 'hot heads'?

Let me just say this. "Collateral damage". If it is good enough for the Turkish Army and Mr Bush (Iraq war), well............................

Since you split hairs, how can deliberate targetting/singling out be 'colateral damage'? Yes, Cyprus and Iraq was brutal by any standards, but targetting of Brit servicemens womenfolk?

And what about when the British Police targeted and killed a 12 year old school boy?

Not 'colateral damage'. Its murder. Next.

Thank you for agreeing with me. The killing of an innocent 12 year old school boy was murder. It was a war crime committed by the British forces in Cyprus.

[denizaksulu]

My father was one of those GCs who volunteered for service during World War II. He served as a non com in the Royal Navy. The inducement to volunteer was the victory of Greece over the Italians in 1940 and the later fight against the Germans. The Greek flag which had been outlawed since 1930, was flown again and the Greek national anthem allowed in schools and public meetings. All of this was used by the British administration to get GCs to volunteer and some thousands did, I heard the figure of 30 000 but I am not sure. There were implied promises of union with Greece after the war.

When the GC veterans came back from WWII they waited for the promises to materialise and instead they got Eden's statement that Cyprus could never be free because of its strategic location.

In view of the above EOKA was a natural outcome. As for the morality of guerrila war, well just read Churchill's "we will fight them on the beaches" speech, it says it all. And there is no real difference betweena pilot who unloads bombs on civlians (80 000 of them in Dresden) and a guerrila who lobs a grenade in a cafe. Let us not be hypocrites about these things.

Were the wives of British servicemen 'fair game' in your opinion? Or were they the work of a few 'hot heads'?

Let me just say this. "Collateral damage". If it is good enough for the Turkish Army and Mr Bush (Iraq war), well............................

Since you split hairs, how can deliberate targetting/singling out be 'colateral damage'? Yes, Cyprus and Iraq was brutal by any standards, but targetting of Brit servicemens womenfolk?

And what about when the British Police targeted and killed a 12 year old school boy?

Not 'colateral damage'. Its murder. Next.

Thank you for agreeing with me. The killing of an innocent 12 year old school boy was murder. It was a war crime committed by the British forces in Cyprus.

Re Bafidis, but why are you laughing

[Paphitis]

My father was one of those GCs who volunteered for service during World War II. He served as a non com in the Royal Navy. The inducement to volunteer was the victory of Greece over the Italians in 1940 and the later fight against the Germans. The Greek flag which had been outlawed since 1930, was flown again and the Greek national anthem allowed in schools and public meetings. All of this was used by the British administration to get GCs to volunteer and some thousands did, I heard the figure of 30 000 but I am not sure. There were implied promises of union with Greece after the war.

When the GC veterans came back from WWII they waited for the promises to materialise and instead they got Eden's statement that Cyprus could never be free because of its strategic location.

In view of the above EOKA was a natural outcome. As for the morality of guerrila war, well just read Churchill's "we will fight them on the beaches" speech, it says it all. And there is no real difference betweena pilot who unloads bombs on civlians (80 000 of them in Dresden) and a guerrila who lobs a grenade in a cafe. Let us not be hypocrites about these things.

Were the wives of British servicemen 'fair game' in your opinion? Or were they the work of a few 'hot heads'?

Let me just say this. "Collateral damage". If it is good enough for the Turkish Army and Mr Bush (Iraq war), well............................

Since you split hairs, how can deliberate targetting/singling out be 'colateral damage'? Yes, Cyprus and Iraq was brutal by any standards, but targetting of Brit servicemens womenfolk?

And what about when the British Police targeted and killed a 12 year old school boy?

Not 'colateral damage'. Its murder. Next.

Thank you for agreeing with me. The killing of an innocent 12 year old school boy was murder. It was a war crime committed by the British forces in Cyprus.

Re Bafidis, but why are you laughing

Re Deniz,

I was not laughing. I was merely happy that you agreed that the slaying of a 12 year old boy during school demonstrations was murder.

[denizaksulu]

My father was one of those GCs who volunteered for service during World War II. He served as a non com in the Royal Navy. The inducement to volunteer was the victory of Greece over the Italians in 1940 and the later fight against the Germans. The Greek flag which had been outlawed since 1930, was flown again and the Greek national anthem allowed in schools and public meetings. All of this was used by the British administration to get GCs to volunteer and some thousands did, I heard the figure of 30 000 but I am not sure. There were implied promises of union with Greece after the war.

When the GC veterans came back from WWII they waited for the promises to materialise and instead they got Eden's statement that Cyprus could never be free because of its strategic location.

In view of the above EOKA was a natural outcome. As for the morality of guerrila war, well just read Churchill's "we will fight them on the beaches" speech, it says it all. And there is no real difference betweena pilot who unloads bombs on civlians (80 000 of them in Dresden) and a guerrila who lobs a grenade in a cafe. Let us not be hypocrites about these things.

Were the wives of British servicemen 'fair game' in your opinion? Or were they the work of a few 'hot heads'?

Let me just say this. "Collateral damage". If it is good enough for the Turkish Army and Mr Bush (Iraq war), well............................

Since you split hairs, how can deliberate targetting/singling out be 'colateral damage'? Yes, Cyprus and Iraq was brutal by any standards, but targetting of Brit servicemens womenfolk?

And what about when the British Police targeted and killed a 12 year old school boy?

Not 'colateral damage'. Its murder. Next.

Thank you for agreeing with me. The killing of an innocent 12 year old school boy was murder. It was a war crime committed by the British forces in Cyprus.

Re Bafidis, but why are you laughing

Re Deniz,

I was not laughing. I was merely happy that you agreed that the slaying of a 12 year old boy during school demonstrations was murder.

OK, fair enough. I was expecting a list of other murdered innocent GCs from you.

[Paphitis]

My father was one of those GCs who volunteered for service during World War II. He served as a non com in the Royal Navy. The inducement to volunteer was the victory of Greece over the Italians in 1940 and the later fight against the Germans. The Greek flag which had been outlawed since 1930, was flown again and the Greek national anthem allowed in schools and public meetings. All of this was used by the British administration to get GCs to volunteer and some thousands did, I heard the figure of 30 000 but I am not sure. There were implied promises of union with Greece after the war.

When the GC veterans came back from WWII they waited for the promises to materialise and instead they got Eden's statement that Cyprus could never be free because of its strategic location.

In view of the above EOKA was a natural outcome. As for the morality of guerrila war, well just read Churchill's "we will fight them on the beaches" speech, it says it all. And there is no real difference betweena pilot who unloads bombs on civlians (80 000 of them in Dresden) and a guerrila who lobs a grenade in a cafe. Let us not be hypocrites about these things.

Were the wives of British servicemen 'fair game' in your opinion? Or were they the work of a few 'hot heads'?

Let me just say this. "Collateral damage". If it is good enough for the Turkish Army and Mr Bush (Iraq war), well............................

Since you split hairs, how can deliberate targetting/singling out be 'colateral damage'? Yes, Cyprus and Iraq was brutal by any standards, but targetting of Brit servicemens womenfolk?

And what about when the British Police targeted and killed a 12 year old school boy?

Not 'colateral damage'. Its murder. Next.

Thank you for agreeing with me. The killing of an innocent 12 year old school boy was murder. It was a war crime committed by the British forces in Cyprus.

Re Bafidis, but why are you laughing

Re Deniz,

I was not laughing. I was merely happy that you agreed that the slaying of a 12 year old boy during school demonstrations was murder.

OK, fair enough. I was expecting a list of other murdered innocent GCs from you.

There were quite a few innocent victims on the GC side. I could not tell you how many baecause I am not familiar with the figures.

I am also quite dissapointed, as this thread was started to commemorate those who died fighting for their land and self determination and it was turned into a slinging match by some TCs.

It would have been better if this thread stayed on topic and concentrated with respecting the fallen of EOKA and also all the fallen from the British side. There is nothing more admirable than to lay down you life and sacrifice for your own country. This is what the EOKA fighters did. Likewise, the British servicemen were also fulfilling their duty which was to serve their country. They were however the oppressors of the Cypriot people, which is what the EOKA campaign was fighting against.

Despite what some TCs think, EOKA was not created to target the TC population.