Cyprus-Forum.com

[bilako22]

The land issue is obviously a sore point for the Greeks . We cannot have a proper functioning federal system without the physical separation of the two communities . !974 went towards the creation of such a system . The TRNC was , in the main , created for the TCs . If the Greeks want the return of their lands it has to be done by either force or by a negotiated solution.

[Nikitas]

You are confusing the issue of political control with racist apartheid. In a federal system the rights to vote etc are one matter, the political control. Right to establishment and property are a different matter again. You have confused the two and established an apartheid state which discriminates against one single nationality. Additionally you have shown total dsiregard for the cultural heritage of the place. No need to use any chracterisations, the situation speaks by itself.

In view of the above it is a huge joke to hear Talat say on live TV "we are the true Europeans". In Europe they do not divest people of their property, nor do they destroy cultural heritage.

[Piratis]

Everything you've offered are offered here in the UK to the disabled. Please do not treat us as such. We don't want charity, we want to be able to offer those you offer us to the underprivileged. We want to be bosses, like you. After all it was my great grand fathers island a century ago. If my great grandfather was a real control freak you would have been speaking Turkish now and we wouldn't have this argument.

How about you get the treatment that your great grandfather gave to us, if you think it was so nice and generous? Do you agree?

Your great grandfather came to our island as an invader. It is time for you to stop acting as a foreign invader and accept to be equal Cypriot citizen - if you want to be a Cypriot. The "boss" of this island are its own people. The era of colonies is over.

That's exactly what I want Piratis. Nothing more nothing less.

But that doesn't match with what you said earlier. Equal Cypriot citizens means that my vote counts as much as yours, that I have the exact same chance to be elected as a member of the parliament as you do, that I have the same chance to be goverment employee as you do. That is what equal citizens means, and that is what political equality means in the whole world.

[zan]

TCs are still the official OWNERS of their land in the south. Possession is reestablished by residing in the RoC for six months. Once that is done the original owner can regain his land even if it is occupied by displaced GCs, there are court cases that decide this, look them up in the press.

GCs were deprived of both ownership and possession in the north. Once the EU and the ECHR stigmatised the nationalisation of land then there was this new scheme to reverse the obviously racist nationalisation clause in the constitution and replace it with the properties commission.

And why should anyone become a citizen of the TRNC in order to reclaim his land? TCs who now hold non CYpriot passports are still the official owners of their land in the RoC. But once racist always racist, this is the rule in the TRNC. It was set up as a racially exclusive club and wants to remain one.

You shoot yourself in the foot every time that you try to act the fool and play dumb and then two shots in the foot when trying to be clever...You know consequences of moving to the "RoC" and the implications of giving in to a regime that is holding us to ransom and sweeping over the fact that the "RoC" is not the legal CYPRUS REPUBLIC under the Zurich agreement. The fact also that the property commission is set up to settle the land issue in the TRNC/KKTC in which it has in no way said that the land ownership is disputed but can be settled so stop your lying rubbish. What you are deprived of is ownership under "RoC" auspices and nothing else. It is your deprived leadership that does not allow you to approach the commission and claim your land for the same reasons we will not come and live in the "RoC".....Recognition. You want to pllay silly buggers then we can play..... Your land is there waiting for you with people using the property as it is being used in the "RoC"....Nothing is different!!!!!

[Viewpoint]

We appear to be going around in circles, the debate rages and shows clearly that we will never agree jack shit, unless we are forced, so Ex Prsident Denktas was correct in saying that we cannot negotiate with GCs as the chasm is to wide and the sole aim of GCs is to take away our community rights and replace them with minority status. They even have problems contemplating a right for us to say no to decisions that will effect us more negatively than themselves...this for me is the most important issue as this would expose us to manipulation and dangers that we faced in the past.

In light of this very negative and disappointing obstacle agreed partition is the only viable option available to TCs. The GCs want to be masters of their own country like they are right now but with control over the whole island. We do not want to be absorbed by GCs and are willing to return land and accept the return of GCs who wish to live in the TRNC to get recognition, this imho is the best way possible for everyone, we can be good neighbours and build trust and cooperation between the 2 countries and see where that takes us.

[free_cyprus]

if we are ever to have peace in cyprus we have to get rid of the zurich agreement and abondan the mother lands idea

there is only one motherland and that is cyprus and most people neglect this identity

[Kikapu]

We appear to be going around in circles, the debate rages and shows clearly that we will never agree jack shit, unless we are forced, so Ex Prsident Denktas was correct in saying that we cannot negotiate with GCs as the chasm is to wide and the sole aim of GCs is to take away our community rights and replace them with minority status. They even have problems contemplating a right for us to say no to decisions that will effect us more negatively than themselves...this for me is the most important issue as this would expose us to manipulation and dangers that we faced in the past.

In light of this very negative and disappointing obstacle agreed partition is the only viable option available to TCs. The GCs want to be masters of their own country like they are right now but with control over the whole island. We do not want to be absorbed by GCs and are willing to return land and accept the return of GCs who wish to live in the TRNC to get recognition, this imho is the best way possible for everyone, we can be good neighbours and build trust and cooperation between the 2 countries and see where that takes us.

VP,

But that would mean the GC's would have to "gift" the North to the TC's, what ever % that may be, and from that date onwards, the GC's will never ever have any say so in the North anymore, despite 80% of the land belonging to the GC's, as well as those GC's choosing to live in the North will not have any voting rights, pass their properties to their heirs, sell their land to another GC, cannot hold any government jobs or positions, Turkish will be the official language, and to raps things up, everyone living in the North must give allegiance to Ataturk. Did I forget anything.?? And you expect the GC's to agree to a recognition of the North just to gain small % of land back.

Call me a pessimist, but I think the GC's would rather wait the TC's and Turkey out until Turkey is ready to be granted EU membership or Privileged Membership status. So it takes another 10-20 years. In that time period the TC's will be swamped by the Turkish Nationals in the North, the South would have moved full steam ahead economically, and the North's economy will start to crumple as money will dry from selling stolen GC properties. From logical point of view, If an agreed partition is going to be a total loss of the North for the GC's except for few % of land returned, why would they even consider allowing recognition for the North so that they can compete with the South on tourism and trade.?? Why would they want to lose their land forever and at the same time reward the TC's with a recognition, so that the TC's become a competition for them.?? I'm just thinking out loud, because VP thinks, in order to be good neighbours, the GC's will first have to cut their own throats so that they can bleed slowly, while the North prospers.

Perhaps I got everything all upside down, and that what VP is proposing, will actually benefit the GC's over the TC's. Perhaps VP is thinking the best outcome for the GC's. Perhaps I'm just jerking with my self, and I just cant see the light that VP is offering to the GC's, to be given land and recognition to the TC's, so that the TC's and the GC's will come good neighbours and can sit down for nice "kelle" together. Well, I'm not jerking with myself, and if pushed came to shove, the GC's will just wait, and be prepared to lose the land if recognition were to come on the off chance that the planets will align themselves in the right position during one of these milleniums, then the GC's will make sure the North as well as Turkey stay in Asia for eternity.

If you think that is not a big deal, think again. Turkey's stock market is down 29% in the first 3 months of 2008, ever since what Germany and France said about their EU prospects, as well as internal problems in Turkey itself. Other markets are down also, but no where near as bad as Turkey's. If Turkey does not manage to get into the EU, then there is a good chance she will become an Islamic country with radicalism becoming popular, and will become just another Middle East country without True Democracy. Average income has just climbed above $7,000, which is based in Dollars, and with the weakness of the dollar around the world and 8% inflation in Turkey, the actual purchasing power for the Turks is barely above $5,000. Hardly anything to write home about.

So all the Neo-Partionist can reject all reasonable True Federation offers to get Cyprus moving in the right direction in the hopes of getting an agreed partition, since a forced one for the last 30+ years has not worked, but my senses tell me, that the GC's will be more prepared to tell the TC's, "not in your life time", because they hold the key that will let Turkey into the West, as the last country standing in Turkey's way, if all the others in the EU are in an agreement to let her in. And if Turkey does not get into the EU and the North is lost to the TC's, then what would have been the difference with an agreed Partition.?? I would really like to know from the Neo-Partitionist specially.

[zan]

Let them tear down the statues of Makarios and knock on the door of Tpap.......They are to blame for their losses.

[Oracle]

Let them tear down the statues of Makarios and knock on the door of Tpap.......They are to blame for their losses.

Zan ... one step at a time .......

It was a phenomenal success by Makarios and EOKA to gain probably nearly 90% autonomy from Britain in 1960 .....

A very worthwhile achievement, considering the huge geopolitical and strategic position of Cyprus, which nobody wanted to relinquish ......

[zan]

Let them tear down the statues of Makarios and knock on the door of Tpap.......They are to blame for their losses.

Zan ... one step at a time .......

It was a phenomenal success by Makarios and EOKA to gain probably nearly 90% autonomy from Britain in 1960 .....

A very worthwhile achievement, considering the huge geopolitical and strategic position of Cyprus, which nobody wanted to relinquish ......

Worked great for me and thousands like me......Growing up not knowing where the hell we fitted in this bloody world....Now I have a place to call home you want me to give that up as well....