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Why Power Sharing Does Not Work.......!!

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby Get Real! » Tue Apr 01, 2008 2:47 pm

Nurgary wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
Nurgary wrote:The official figures are 142,000 GC as posted on official GC Government website.

You haven’t read carefully my intellectually challenged friend because these are THE ONLY bodies authorized in these matters...

“Subsequently, revised statistics on displaced persons in Cyprus complied as of Nov. 1, 1974 by the Government of Cyprus, UNFICYP, the UNHCR and ICRC, Indicate the total has been reduced slightly.”

Regarding GC refugee numbers Cyprus today had something to say about this...


…and certainly not a NOBODY you call “Cyprus Today” idiot! :lol:


142,000 Official GC figure ROC Press and Information Office (PIO), The Cyprus Question, (Nicosia, 2003), p. 12.

Also listed on many GC official web site.

Maybe you and I should start with the bare basics...

What is your IQ?
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Postby Nurgary » Tue Apr 01, 2008 2:51 pm

Kikapu wrote:
Nurgary wrote:
Kikapu wrote:
Nikitas wrote:"what would happen if all the TC's refugees living overseas came back to the South and demanded their land and property. i think there would be major issues and persecution of them"

Avoid unnecessary drama please. They are ciitizens of the RoC and are fully entiltled to their land and property in general. Quite a few have returned and succesfully reclaimed their property even if a GC refugee lived there. There are court decisions you can look up which resulted in the eviction of the GC resident.

There were neither major issues nor persecution of the returning TCs.


Nikitas,

Nurgary is a self admitted purchaser of stolen GC land in the "TRNC", therefore he is Morally Corrupted to say anything that does not favour in keeping his illegal gains, so expect him to be the "Melodramatic Queen" of all times with statements made as the one below.

Nurgary wrote:The question regarding fear would be down to each refugee (From 63 to 75) who could say what would happen if all the TC's refugees living overseas came back to the South and demanded their land and property. i think there would be major issues and persecution of them.


Whatever.

But why not answer the question - Been looking at Cyprus Mail reports going back to 2004 and can only see a handful of TC getting the property back - after Court cases.


I'm glad you are not disputing that you are a Morally Corrupted Individual.

Lets take you for an example Nurgary. Lets say you have a house and land in the South which you have deeds for them and they legally belong to you. The reason why you need to spend 6 months in the South in order to claim your land, is because there are too many Morally Corrupted individuals, who would be sitting on a GC property in the North given to them illegally by the "TRNC" with fake land deeds to do what ever they want with it, in exchange for their property in the South, also illegally. In order to stop Double Dipping where if it was possible to just come and sell your property in the South just like that, then not only you are still holding onto the GC property in the North, but now you have sold your own property in the South. The GC's do not have that option in the North, so why should you in the South. The GC's in the South living in TC houses or land have not been issued fake deeds to do what ever they want with it. In your case, you are also breaking the laws of the RoC for purchasing and selling stolen GC property, so they would want to make sure, that you are not a criminal before your property is given back to you in the South. In your case, you will more than likely end up in jail for your illegal activities and you will have a cell mate who goes by the name Bubba.!!.

If on the other hand, a decent TC who likes to return back to their villages and to their own property, they will be accommodated and do what ever they wish to do with their property, as long as they are not holding onto any GC property in the North, or have had any illegal dealing with GC property. If they were in Cyprus in 1974, then they must live in the South for 6 months before the property is returned to them. If any TC's were out of Cyprus at the time of the 1974 events and have not been living in the North since, then they can return to the South and get their property back almost right away.


I have said there is a big issue regarding this over posts last few days:

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 10:46 am

I agree this is unfair as both Governments should share information. If a TC has handed his rights to his property and land to TRNC Government in exchange for former GC property they should have no right to their former property and land.

What should happen is TRNC provides details of TC land that has been handed to them in the South over to authorities in the South so this can be given to GC's who lost property and land in the North. Think many would agree to some exchange.

In fact some GC's have agreed to this arrangement via the Property Commission in TRNC.

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 2:54 pm:

Zan - i think it is only fair that TC's can't have their cake and eat it.

If they got exchange land for what they lost in the South the TRNC Government should provide this info to the GC's and agree that they can distribute this to GC refugees.

Think TRNC government have made it illegal for TC who got exchange land will be prosecuted if they claimed their property and land back in the South. Only issue is information needs to be handed over so any greedy TC is told to f**k off and those that have done it thus far are prosecuted.

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 4:21 pm:

The fact Bill is the TRNC is there and the Government there have given former GC land and property to TC. The rights and wrongs are not the issue.

However, TC who handed there rights over for the exchange GC land / property have no right to what they handed over to the TRNC government .

Let's say Ali lost a property and 10 dumoms in Pafos and was given the same in the North which was former GC - he shouldn't be able to sell what he exchanged in the TRNC and then go to the South - stay 6 months and claim what he lost there.

Both Governments should agree a way this can't happen.
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Postby Get Real! » Tue Apr 01, 2008 2:54 pm

Nurgary wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
Nurgary wrote:Statistics show that 5,500 Greek Cypriot refugees are living in a house owned by a Turkish Cypriot before 1974, while around 8,000 Greek Cypriots have built houses on Turkish Cypriot land.

You just don't get it do you?

ALWAYS POST LINKS TO PROVE ANY FIGURES YOU QUOTE


Now think CYPRUS MAIL would have got statistics right:

Is that a fact? :lol:

Turkish Cypriot sues government over army camp on his land
(archive article - Friday, August 18, 2006)

This irrelevant article is NOT helping your lack of credibility.... Image

WHERE ARE YOUR LINKS? :lol:
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Postby Paphitis » Tue Apr 01, 2008 2:56 pm

Nurgary wrote:
purdey wrote:Come on over Nurgary..I will take you to two villages Nr Troodos where the land and property has not been touched since the TC's left.
The villages concerned have strict rules in place where the land is free from encroachment, building, right of way. We are talking not small pockets but many hundreds of donums.
I am over in July and August you are more than welcome to visit.


I accept some property and land has not been touched - that is not the issue.

The issue is it is not easy for TC's to claim their property back in the South. Some have managed to get it returned but many have not due to the 6 month residency requirement. Thus many court cases in Southern Courts as well as ECHR.

The GC's can claim in the TRNC as many have. Some have been allocated former TC property in the South - Some accepted compensation and in a few cases they got restitution.

The dream of everybody going back to 74 is just that. TC and GC land has been developed so the reality as it is today is what matters.

Do you really believe that both parties will live in total unity with any solution? I just can't see that happening. Suspect it will all go back to AP and land hand backs basically as listed.

2 zones 2 communities 1 central government.


My inlaws have a house in Kythrea. They do not want compensation.

They want to return to their house. And one day we will return.
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Postby Nurgary » Tue Apr 01, 2008 2:57 pm

Get Real! wrote:
Nurgary wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
Nurgary wrote:The official figures are 142,000 GC as posted on official GC Government website.

You haven’t read carefully my intellectually challenged friend because these are THE ONLY bodies authorized in these matters...

“Subsequently, revised statistics on displaced persons in Cyprus complied as of Nov. 1, 1974 by the Government of Cyprus, UNFICYP, the UNHCR and ICRC, Indicate the total has been reduced slightly.”

Regarding GC refugee numbers Cyprus today had something to say about this...


…and certainly not a NOBODY you call “Cyprus Today” idiot! :lol:


142,000 Official GC figure ROC Press and Information Office (PIO), The Cyprus Question, (Nicosia, 2003), p. 12.

Also listed on many GC official web site.

Maybe you and I should start with the bare basics...

What is your IQ?


No - lets stick to FACTS.

Last IQ taken was 147 which had dropped from 152 and yours??
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Postby Get Real! » Tue Apr 01, 2008 3:05 pm

Nurgary wrote:
Get Real! wrote:Maybe you and I should start with the bare basics...
What is your IQ?


No - lets stick to FACTS.

Last IQ taken was 147 which had dropped from 152 and yours??

The fact that you don’t have the SLIGHTEST care for making a constant fool of yourself by posting unsubstantiated rubbish is all the evidence anyone will ever need that you’re just the average bozo! Image
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Postby Nurgary » Tue Apr 01, 2008 3:11 pm

Average with GMAT score of 710 also.

The facts always come out.
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Postby Kikapu » Tue Apr 01, 2008 3:12 pm

VP,

No rabbit or magic Kikapu just hard cold facts that division is nothing new it has been working for 34 years, with Brits residing and even becoming citizens of the TRNC with the same rights as myself. We respect them and they respect us, we get along fine and have zero problems. Its only when you put GCs into the equation mix them up you yet trouble and strife. Those GCs wishing to live in theh TRNC will not be treated any differently from TCs, just as you see fit for me if I should reside in the "RoC" we can guaratee the same for GCs who live with us, whats so wrong with that?


First you say this;

"Its only when you put GCs into the equation mix them up you yet trouble and strife"

Then in the next sentence, you say this;

"Those GCs wishing to live in theh TRNC will not be treated any differently from TCs"

Are just a little bit confused or was your subconscious was writing one line, and you the other.!!!



You may twist and turn with your verbal acrobatics all you wish Kikapu, dismiss our concerns as unimportant which if you were to be concerned about TCs as much as you are GCs you would realize this type of attitude only makes us more determined to not give into GC demands that will absorb us intt a GC state without communtiy rights and safeguards.


I'm not dismissing any concerns that the TC's may have, no matter what they may be. There isn't anything that can't be addressed and safeguards to be put in place, but without them being Racist, Undemocratic, and Violations of any one's Rights. If we are going to be living in Europe, the least we can all do, is live by their examples.


You are right the north is occupied, occupied by us the TCs the right ful owners of Cyprus, we lost 63% of our country in order to find peace and happiness, the ghetto days, GC discrmination and persecution are over and we will never go backwards. 1974 changed everything forever, BBF and political equality are on offer take it or leave it, your leaders say they want it but the coming months will reveal exactly what they want. You can talk and talk but you cant change anything if one day you should have the miltary might then go ahead and do your worst but in the meantime if you shoudl one day decide to act like level headed people who want to share on an equal footing then we are preapred to listen otherwise the status quo can continue forever.


Sorry, you are not the sole owners of the North. If you were, there would be no need for a peace settlement. You would also be a sovereign nation, and despite what the Big Turkish General says, the "TRNC" is not a sovereign nation. I don't know how a military leader has gotten such simple fact so wrong. He must have been talking to you and Zan. He'll end up losing some medals for that blunder.

With an 80% imbalance in favır of GCs with an inbred racist and discrminative attitude, we wouldnt stand a chance in hell of being elected anywhere near the running of a united Cyprus.


True Democracy is not perfect, but it is better than Undemocratic Systems as those in Middle East and south America practice. Barack Obama is from a 10% ethnic Black race, but will become President of the USA, because the majority will vote for him, and that majority are the Whites, who had slaved the Blacks and denied them any civil rightly you can imagine for hundreds of years. You want to talk about Racism, that is what definition of Racism is, and to some extent, still exists in some parts of the USA. But thanks to True Democracy, times have changed. In Cyprus, we don't even need to go that far back to re invent the Democratic Wheel. We can start with full Democratic Rights for everyone from day ONE.

The only way forward is BBF with political equality or agreed partition the choice is yours.


The choice is not yours to offer. The best way forward is what is in the best interest of the majority of Cypriots and the Country...Take it or Leave it.


Let me ask the following questions,

Do you agree to a 2 state solution north and south?


Yes, in a True Federation.

Do you agree both states shoudl be joined at a federal level?


In a True Federation, you don't have a choice, so they will both be in it.

Do you agree the federal administration should be a 30% TC 70% GC split?


NO, If you are going to have any split by ethnic lines, then they should be proportionate. I personally would like to see the best person for the job. But no doubt, you are going to have Federal offices in the North that will be mostly TC's and the reverse in the South.

Do you agree all armies should leave and all arms should be removed?


Armies should go and National Guards should be set up by both communities, in what they need in their own states. These can be part time reservist, weekend soldiers, but are there in emergencies. Personal arms can be turned in by everyone, but only if we don't have any Guarantor powers with intervention rights.

Do you agree settlers on both sides Turks in the north and Pontiacs in the south should leave or be inticed to leave using EU norms?

Most of them should leave. Those who are married and have kids should stay. The rest should go back to their own countries.

Do you agree all refugees should be offered the right to return or compensation?


The refugees should be allowed to make that choice and no one else.

Do you agree a 30% 70% split in parliament where both sides have veto rights on sensative issues like in the EU?


No veto Rights to anyone. Parliament should represent in proportion of their community or to anyone who is elected outside their community.

Lets we where we get unstuck?


I don't understand your question......sorry.
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Postby zan » Tue Apr 01, 2008 3:32 pm

Kikapu wrote:
Nikitas wrote:"what would happen if all the TC's refugees living overseas came back to the South and demanded their land and property. i think there would be major issues and persecution of them"

Avoid unnecessary drama please. They are ciitizens of the RoC and are fully entiltled to their land and property in general. Quite a few have returned and succesfully reclaimed their property even if a GC refugee lived there. There are court decisions you can look up which resulted in the eviction of the GC resident.

There were neither major issues nor persecution of the returning TCs.


Nikitas,

Nurgary is a self admitted purchaser of stolen GC land in the "TRNC", therefore he is Morally Corrupted to say anything that does not favour in keeping his illegal gains, so expect him to be the "Melodramatic Queen" of all times with statements made as the one below.

Nurgary wrote:The question regarding fear would be down to each refugee (From 63 to 75) who could say what would happen if all the TC's refugees living overseas came back to the South and demanded their land and property. i think there would be major issues and persecution of them.


Hey look every one...Kikapolousigolous has got yet another catch-phrase he is stuck on...How many does that make now :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Obsessive or what!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby Viewpoint » Tue Apr 01, 2008 4:45 pm

Kikapu
First you say this;

"Its only when you put GCs into the equation mix them up you yet trouble and strife"

Then in the next sentence, you say this;

"Those GCs wishing to live in theh TRNC will not be treated any differently from TCs"

Are just a little bit confused or was your subconscious was writing one line, and you the other.!!!


You are the one who is confused as maybe I was not to clear, I was stating we have no problems with Brits because there's mutual respect and cooperation but in the past the equation had GCs with hidden agendas and extremists in the mix which messed things up. If GCs wanted to live with us in the TRNC they would enjoy every right available to me.

Any clearer?

I'm not dismissing any concerns that the TC's may have, no matter what they may be. There isn't anything that can't be addressed and safeguards to be put in place, but without them being Racist, Undemocratic, and Violations of any one's Rights. If we are going to be living in Europe, the least we can all do, is live by their examples.


Kikapu
I tend to think is the latter personally, because everything that you have "concerns" about, are not valid, since measures can be taken to secure them for you


Then start addressing them not dismissing them, because all we hear from you is that is not possible, and that we have no right to claim what we do, well let me tell you the more you reject our concerns the more insecure and untrusting we become, if you have no concerns that you will not perpetrate safeguards then why should you object to them? obviously you do not rust yourselves to do the right thing.

Sorry, you are not the sole owners of the North. If you were, there would be no need for a peace settlement. You would also be a sovereign nation, and despite what the Big Turkish General says, the "TRNC" is not a sovereign nation. I don't know how a military leader has gotten such simple fact so wrong. He must have been talking to you and Zan. He'll end up losing some medals for that blunder.


We are owners of Cyprus, seeing that we were unable to share it all together, the results of which are division it appears that division has worked better for both sides, the GCs have and run their own GC state without the interference of the TCs and have prospered, they don't need or want us all they want is land and more wealth.

True Democracy is not perfect, but it is better than Undemocratic Systems as those in Middle East and south America practice. Barack Obama is from a 10% ethnic Black race, but will become President of the USA, because the majority will vote for him, and that majority are the Whites, who had slaved the Blacks and denied them any civil rightly you can imagine for hundreds of years. You want to talk about Racism, that is what definition of Racism is, and to some extent, still exists in some parts of the USA. But thanks to True Democracy, times have changed. In Cyprus, we don't even need to go that far back to re invent the Democratic Wheel. We can start with full Democratic Rights for everyone from day ONE.


We know what we want for ourselves and we will not be forced into a situation or position we do not want to be in, if we want to live like a 3rd world country that's our problem not yours so using the we are perfect, we have democracy, we are in the EU does not mean you are perfect and everything is running smoothly in the south. There are better countries that the south and there are worse, the same goes for the TRNC. You have to realize we will not let go of the TRNC unless we feel comfortable entering into an agreement, it cannot be forced and we would rather stay as the TRNC with all its imperfections that play second fiddle to GCs. The American people are made up of a mixture of cultures and ethnic races, they have developed and regard themselves as Americans first, we are not like that we do not have that variety or mixture, the majority of Cypriots only accept being a Turkish or Greek Cypriot, the chance to form one people was lost in 1963, the whole ball game has changed totally we have become 2 people 2 sides who could just maybe live together but side by side.

The choice is not yours to offer. The best way forward is what is in the best interest of the majority of Cypriots and the Country...Take it or Leave it.


BBF Political equality is whats on the table nothing else.

NO, If you are going to have any split by ethnic lines, then they should be proportionate. I personally would like to see the best person for the job. But no doubt, you are going to have Federal offices in the North that will be mostly TC's and the reverse in the South.


So you support a 18% 82% split?

Armies should go and National Guards should be set up by both communities, in what they need in their own states. These can be part time reservist, weekend soldiers, but are there in emergencies. Personal arms can be turned in by everyone, but only if we don't have any Guarantor powers with intervention rights.


Who will intervene in times of crisis?

Most of them should leave. Those who are married and have kids should stay. The rest should go back to their own countries.


You didn't say anything about the Pontiac's?? or any other people who were given citizenship without TC say so.

No veto Rights to anyone. Parliament should represent in proportion of their community or to anyone who is elected outside their community.


How will you stop a vote to gift Cyprus to Turkey? Don't say it wont happen and hope for the best, this is not good enough, I have provided one example of a sensitive issue which either side should have the right to say no.
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