Cyprus-Forum.com

[CopperLine]

Unless one thinks that one people is inherently virtuous and the other people inherently evil - which after all would simply be a racist understanding - then we'd have to at least admit the possibility that both peoples/sides committed atrocities. ... Let me rephrase that : we'd have to at least admit the possibility that some people committed atrocities in the name of one side or other.

As I understand the work of Sevgul Uludag, Andreas Paraschos, Makarios Drousiotis and a few brave others they are trying to uncover what happened to 'missing persons' of Cyprus irrespective of who they are, which community they belonged to, or who is alleged to have killed or disappeared them. These journalists are trying to establish the truth of the fate of these people. They are trying to realise the basic human right of knowing what has happened to our loved ones and to be free of the ignorance and terror which their disappearance has produced. It is a basic question of humanity and humane consideration of others.

These journalists face real opposition and threats and intimidation from individuals and institutions right across the island who would rather that the dirty secrets of dirty wars disappeared like their victims. Or there are inidviduals and institutions who find life much easier, less troublesome, if the surviving families would just be quiet and forget what had happened to their loved ones. Or there are individuals and institutions who fear that their own complicity or lack of care and humanity for their fellows will be exposed.

To my mind, these journalists' work is shining example of a dedication for doggedly but humanely trying to establish what are invariably painful truths.

It should not be the case that we have to defend these journalists from the ignorant and vicious assaults made by people like Oracle. Instead we should be questioning those apologists of decades-long partisan deceit, falsehood and myth.

[Nikitas]

Sevgul Uludag is one of the best journalists Cyprus has, she and Sener Levent have preached what they wrote and have been persecuted for their beliefs.

I read both of them whenever I can, in translation in GC newspapers.

Sevgul Uludag also writes fiction, although I never came across any. She has written an account of how the two main communities of Cyprus have gone at each other and the results. The details are recognisable by any Cypriot who has had even passing contact with the fanatics of either side.

She wrote about the Afania massacre of GCs and in one detail, the age of the killers, she echoes the events of another place, Maratha and Sandalaris where the killers, GCs this time, were also very young. This detail, and the importance of many things is in the details, should ring alarms in everyone here. The killers had been of the first generation of Cypriots to have grown up apart. They did not have a chance to have any experience of the "other" therefore no cause to hate. Separation is not a solution to this particular problem, obviously.

[Oracle]

No one is denying crimes were committed by both sides.

But what is dangerous about these books is that the authors wish to cover up and mitigate the great atrocities committed by the one side ... the Turks, with the relatively lesser crimes committed by the defending side, the GCs ....

It is a great wrong and an injustice to label all "criminals" together ...

A householder forced to shoot someone breaking into his home and threatening his family cannot be equated with a serial killer intent on torturing his innocent victims, and adding to spoils as many as he can get away with until caught ...

Yes you Turks can jump with joy and support such books, because they excuse you from the great burden of the crimes of your fellows and at the same time make the GCs look worse.

That is a lie and a crime in itself.

CopperLine ... you have proved many times that you do not understand the meaning of virtue ....

[miltiades]

Sevgul Uludag is one of the best journalists Cyprus has, she and Sener Levent have preached what they wrote and have been persecuted for their beliefs.

I read both of them whenever I can, in translation in GC newspapers.

Sevgul Uludag also writes fiction, although I never came across any. She has written an account of how the two main communities of Cyprus have gone at each other and the results. The details are recognisable by any Cypriot who has had even passing contact with the fanatics of either side.

She wrote about the Afania massacre of GCs and in one detail, the age of the killers, she echoes the events of another place, Maratha and Sandalaris where the killers, GCs this time, were also very young. This detail, and the importance of many things is in the details, should ring alarms in everyone here. The killers had been of the first generation of Cypriots to have grown up apart. They did not have a chance to have any experience of the "other" therefore no cause to hate. Separation is not a solution to this particular problem, obviously.

Nikitas , I feel so humble that until Halil gave me this book I had never heard of this T/C lady .Halil also gave me three bottles of red wine , I drunk the wine and thoroughly enjoyed each bottle but the thrill of reading this book far exists the the pleasure I received by drinking the wine.
You know something , Halil told me about the wine but never mentioned the book , he simply put in the bag with the wine , not a word said ..

[Big Al]

oracle go to bed, i think you are showing early signs of dementia in your old age

[Nikitas]

Well Miltiades, it is never too late to discover something worthwhile. I do not know if you can access the Politis archives of Sevgul Uludag's articles on the missing persons. Her accounts are always riveting because she spares no one.

Oracle, Sevgul Uludag was never supported by the TC or Turkish establishment. She was in fact threatened after the publication of her recent book and for her work in uncovering burial sites of missing persons.

[Oracle]

oracle go to bed, i think you are showing early signs of dementia in your old age

Go on Big Al ... show everyone what a paragon of incredulous intellect you possess ....

Wish I was in Australia too ! .... but alas Good night.

[Nikitas]

When it comes to uncovering what happened to the missing persons we all know there is a story there that no one really dares tell. Sevgul Uludag comes close, but does not hit the bullseye. I doubt anyone can, in a small community like Cyprus.

It is probable that even people in this forum know of some of the killers, on either side, but we do not speak about them, at least not in public. Against this backdrop Uludag at least speaks for the victims. It is not the whole story, but better than nothing.

[Oracle]

Well Miltiades, it is never too late to discover something worthwhile. I do not know if you can access the Politis archives of Sevgul Uludag's articles on the missing persons. Her accounts are always riveting because she spares no one.

Oracle, Sevgul Uludag was never supported by the TC or Turkish establishment. She was in fact threatened after the publication of her recent book and for her work in uncovering burial sites of missing persons.

I know Nikitas .... I was exchanging with the others regarding the missing 1,500+ GCs .... and their slanted views.

However, I find it dangerous when journalist romanticise about such happenings ... and would need to scrutinise the book thoroughly ... but on the whole if a book presented the real figures which are so grossly weighed against Turkey then, it would not make such a riveting read and I guess figures take second stage against flowery language ....

Either way I just prefer facts to second-hand opinions.

[Get Real!]

Halil also gave me three bottles of red wine , I drunk the wine and thoroughly enjoyed each bottle but the thrill of reading this book far exists the the pleasure I received by drinking the wine.

After three bottles of wine I would even find "Anne of Green Gables" interesting...