Cyprus-Forum.com

[purdey]

Please, please enlighten me.I keep hearing the GC's on forum asking for the British to get out of the bases.Where does this come from ? Cypriot Government, NO !!! I still hear no voice from elected new or last Government asking or telling the British to go.
Maybe someone can tell me why this is the case, what is the Government afraid of ? why do they let the British stay ? why do the Cypriot population not ask for the bases back ?

[Talisker]

Solving the CyProb - should and could the UK assist?

That’s no different to asking if a wolf should and could assist a herd of sheep…

But as you well know there is not only a single (British) wolf - there are several with their own appetites to satisfy.

My question was to ascertain whether progress towards a solution could be achieved more easily without UK involvement, although, as Nikitas says, it is difficult to disentangle the UK from the situation.

[Nikitas]

"Not like you to be so pessimistic, Nikitas! Can your doomsday scenario be avoided?"

As far as the SBAs go yes, it can be avoided. Firstly there must be a realisation that with the Federal solution territory becomes vital for all communities. Considering that the TCs will get an exclusively TC area in the north, then ALL (GCs, Armenians, Maronites, Latins, Gypsies) the other communities will get a shared area in the south. The British should give up the larger area in Dhekelia, which is mostly old housing and office space anyway. They can then move the signals base to Akrotiri and shrink that base to the absolutely minimum area required.

Also we must define territorial ratios, ie whether they are calculated on the "island" or the RoC, the island includes the SBAs, the RoC does not, the deifference is lots of square miles of land. And importantly, the Dhekelia base divides the GC area into two unconnected pieces, and this is unacceptable.

Additionally the British must relinquish a whole bunch of other "faclities" on Cyprus, like rights over ports, airports, air space etc. I recall a scene in 1977 when the National Guard was on exercise and it just "happened" to coincide with a British army exercise and landrovers full of radio gear were following GC units all over the mountains. It did look suspicious and odd.

Britain knows the importance of its bases, and has realised that in future they will have to deal with GCs if they want to keep them. Which probably explains why the first invitation to visit to Christofias did not come from Athens but from London.

[Nikitas]

Re Purdey's comment above about the demand for the SBAs to leave not coming from the government.

Well, the government does not have to do anything, the process of finding a solution by itself puts the SBAs in doubt. If the TC demand of a "virgin birth" is pursued then the 1960 agreement is finished, and so are the SBAs since they were established in the 1960 agreement. If there is a continuation of the RoC in federal form then the SBAs stay. As you see the RoC government has a powerful ally in its position that the RoC should stay and simply become a federal state, that ally is the UK!

[BC Numismatics]

The Sovereign Base Areas have never been part of the Republic of Cyprus,which is why they are British colonies.There should be only one guarantor power supporting Cyprus.That guarantor power is Great Britain! Neither Greece nor Turkey have done any good in Cyprus at all.They've been using Cyprus as a battleground for their braindead games,& the Cypriot people have been used as pawns by both the stubborn Greeks & the scummy Turks for far too long!

The British should pay the back rent that is owing to the Cypriot Government for both Akrotiri & Dhekelia,& then they should BUY the territory that the S.B.A.s are located on,so that they can be converted into proper British colonies like Gibraltar & the Falkland Islands.

Aidan.

[observer]

The Sovereign Base Areas have never been part of the Republic of Cyprus,which is why they are British colonies.There should be only one guarantor power supporting Cyprus.That guarantor power is Great Britain! Neither Greece nor Turkey have done any good in Cyprus at all.They've been using Cyprus as a battleground for their braindead games,& the Cypriot people have been used as pawns by both the stubborn Greeks & the scummy Turks for far too long!

The British should pay the back rent that is owing to the Cypriot Government for both Akrotiri & Dhekelia,& then they should BUY the territory that the S.B.A.s are located on,so that they can be converted into proper British colonies like Gibraltar & the Falkland Islands.

Aidan.

Sorry Aidan, but you have fallen for GC 'half-truths' (I'm feeling kind hearted today).

There never was any rent. Britain agreed in 1960 to make some one-off grants over a period of 5 years. You can read the agreement here: http://untreaty.un.org/unts/1_60000/11/17/00020824.pdf

[BC Numismatics]

Observer,
Thanks for posting that P.D.F. file.I wonder if those grants were ever paid out.

Aidan.

[Talisker]

"Not like you to be so pessimistic, Nikitas! Can your doomsday scenario be avoided?"

As far as the SBAs go yes, it can be avoided. Firstly there must be a realisation that with the Federal solution territory becomes vital for all communities. Considering that the TCs will get an exclusively TC area in the north, then ALL (GCs, Armenians, Maronites, Latins, Gypsies) the other communities will get a shared area in the south. The British should give up the larger area in Dhekelia, which is mostly old housing and office space anyway. They can then move the signals base to Akrotiri and shrink that base to the absolutely minimum area required.

Also we must define territorial ratios, ie whether they are calculated on the "island" or the RoC, the island includes the SBAs, the RoC does not, the deifference is lots of square miles of land. And importantly, the Dhekelia base divides the GC area into two unconnected pieces, and this is unacceptable.

Additionally the British must relinquish a whole bunch of other "faclities" on Cyprus, like rights over ports, airports, air space etc. I recall a scene in 1977 when the National Guard was on exercise and it just "happened" to coincide with a British army exercise and landrovers full of radio gear were following GC units all over the mountains. It did look suspicious and odd.

Britain knows the importance of its bases, and has realised that in future they will have to deal with GCs if they want to keep them. Which probably explains why the first invitation to visit to Christofias did not come from Athens but from London.

Nikitas, much of what you say (and I agree with most of it) is along the lines that Britain must/should undertake various actions.....e.g. leave Dhekelia, give up other facilitites, retreatito a minimal Akrotiri base. Why would the UK wish to agree to these actions? How can these actions be seen by the UK government to be in the UK interest? Abhorrent as it may be, that is how the UK government will evaluate these propositions.

I'm intrigued that you appear to accept the idea of a permanent UK military presence in Cyprus, albeit within a reduced SBA of Akrotiri. Why do you deem this acceptable within a workable solution to the CyProb?

[Talisker]

The Sovereign Base Areas have never been part of the Republic of Cyprus,which is why they are British colonies.There should be only one guarantor power supporting Cyprus.That guarantor power is Great Britain! Neither Greece nor Turkey have done any good in Cyprus at all.They've been using Cyprus as a battleground for their braindead games,& the Cypriot people have been used as pawns by both the stubborn Greeks & the scummy Turks for far too long!

The British should pay the back rent that is owing to the Cypriot Government for both Akrotiri & Dhekelia,& then they should BUY the territory that the S.B.A.s are located on,so that they can be converted into proper British colonies like Gibraltar & the Falkland Islands.

Aidan.

Clear and to the point as ever Aidan, but I'm afraid I disagree with you. The days of UK colonialism are long gone, and when I read through the 1960 constitution documentation I find it scandalous that the UK gave itself sovereignty to the SBAs. There is a twisted genius to it, but how has it been of benefit to Cyprus? I'm all for reduced UK influence in Cyprus, particularly if unwanted by the local populace.

Regards,
Talisker

[BC Numismatics]

Talisker,
The S.B.A.s have contributed a lot to the Cypriot economy,& has been a very good employer of thousands of native Cypriots,who now enjoy dual citizenship of both Cyprus & Great Britain (through being granted local citizenship of the S.B.A.s).

When the Cyprus Independence Agreement of 1959 was signed,Cyprus was still a British colony.The British Government were free to do as they pleased in Cyprus.By securing sovereignty over the S.B.A.s,Great Britain became a guarantor power.Had Great Britain been able to intervene in 1974,it would have done so.Great Britain had its own war to fight - against the subhumans of Sinn Fein/I.R.A. & their allies in the Romish rebel pirate state (Republic of Ireland).

Aidan.