Cyprus-Forum.com

[repulsewarrior]

well OP, thank-you for your effort. Your point is well taken, and your personal opinion is well noted. However, to you because i believe where i have failed that you will succeed, and to the other posters, please an address(es) where i can mail my personal effort to the two leaders.

ella OP, solve my problem, please. and maybe others will be inspired to do the same.

it is important to me.

[bill cobbett]

Surely people must express themselves in any way they wish or can and let's not forget that English is not the first language of many/most members so sometimes a couple of expletives or even an insult or two can be helpful in getting across a point.

As to the matters of negativity and positivity that some speak of above I would say that one person's positive is often an other's negative. For instance someone might say " We are going back to our homes in Kyrenia ". Well, that's nice and positive unless you happen to be a settler from Anatolia (?) living in these houses for whom the same statement is a bit negative.

Offending? Well, as someone once said (something like) if you believe in in your right to free speech, you must also insist on your right to be offended (and insulted).

Anyway, back to the post in question. They met, they smiled at eachother and the cameras and talked. Well forgive the extreme views of a fanatical democrat that follow but what have they got to talk about? To my mind the only thing these two have to agree are in setting the day when:-
1. the Occupying Turkish Army leaves the Island.
2. the rights, freedoms (and responsibilities) that are enjoyed by all citizens of all the other EU states are applied in all Cy.

-----

....Kept out of the north by Bizonal, Bicom, Bicycle, Partitionist agreements

Bill, there is nothing wrong with saying " We are going back to our homes in Kyrenia " however "We are going to kick the fucking Turks into the sea so that we can go back to our homes in Kyrenia" may be a shared ambition but expressing it to the other side is counter-productive to finding a solution. The loud mouthed racist remarks by some posters on this site may be an indication of a psychological or hormonal problem or they could be a pathetic attempt at attention seeking, and, whilst I agree with the right to free speech I believe that hate posts achieve nothing. Both Denktash and TPap, the leading hate mongers, have gone. They achieved nothing, they wasted our time, they had too much hatred for the other side to ever be part of a solution. The Cyprus problem will be solved, if ever, by moderatation not by expressing extreme views however justified. Whilst I disagree with the Turkish Cypriot position on the problem in Cyprus my current understanding of their views has been largely shaped by what I have read on this site and I am sure the reverse is true, if we want to share the island with them I feel that we could make a start by being a little more positive towards them on this forum.

Sorry Jerry. Didn't see your post 'til this late hour.

Somewhere between "we are going back to our homes in Kyrenia" and "we are going to to kick the f---g t---ks in to the sea so we can go back to our homes in K" we would have to draw a line. Where that line is drawn is an age old problem of free speech. In the real world it's usually placed so that incitement to commit a crime is on the prohibited side.

My experience of this forum is that most members are respectful to other members most of the time and we have the balance about right and the loud mouthed racists condemn themselves and their viewpoint with their rantings. Give them enough rope.. as it were. I wouldn't want to get in to a situation where we felt that we were treading on eggshells when we post.

[repulsewarrior]

...here is my problem OP. It's obvious I care. It's obvious to me that you love this island as much as i do.
and yet, my question to date remains ignored. I would like to write to Talat and to Christofias personally.

Can you help me?

Mr. B, you must have read my last postings on this thread, what do you think?

Who was saying stay calm, and let's stick together, thank-you, but (as you know) we need more, I need more.

Only Nikitas is on subject, in my mind now he is Mr.N.

and bill, one of my favorite posters, my friend,
don't be bamboozled into thinking BBF is all bad, in it like in all things is a yin and a yang.
i could use your consideration.

RW. Let me say first that, I do passionately share your belief that all Cs can live together in peace.

On the political level I am very unhappy with artificial but very real internal borders. Whether this is a bizonal or some kind of canton (or enclave, don't like this word) based agreement maintains the present segregation, keeps up the them and us mentality and with limited personal contact between communities. Then we have another artificial construction in the matter of the Constitution and the relationship between the zonal governing bodies and the role and strength of the central government. We are in danger (again) of building a house of cards.

On the personal level, these BCF agreements will mean, it seems to me that, we will be telling a good many Cypriots (of both communities) that they will have to give up their rights to their homes, lands and their village roots for some greater good. Now, some will say that there will be compensation but in the first instance all homes and land must be returned to rightful owners. It is up to them to decide whether or not to accept compensation.

The EU angle. Any agreement has to comply with Cy's obligations to the other EU states and respect EU laws. I am of the view that BCFs/Cantonal schemes don't comply because they are more than likely to impose restraints on such matters as freedom of movement and freedom to enjoy property.

My preference in 2008 - Build on a EU model base with no internal borders. Only guarantees the EU and its laws and institutions.

My compromise in 2008 - A temporary BCF agreement (5-10 years) pending my permanent preference above.
(Bugger - RW has made me compromise)

My bottom line (red line I think some call it) - Army of RoT must go on Day 0 - no negotiation.

indeed i agree with you. The State must be strong and Sovereign as our representative, as Cypriots.

Consider carefully my proposal, because the two National Assemblies will have a Jurisdiction,(not its Sovereignty) by territory, to provide services over the whole island. Nothing will prevent the majority to serve themselves, but as Turkish Cypriots, or Greek Cypriots, they will have to demonstrate their committment to inclusiveness as Persons, which a State cannot do for them, defending its Citizens as Individuals, and/or their Basic Human Rights. There will be no exclusivity in either region (zone), anywhere, (while the repopulation may be managed), and in terms of voting rights, no citizen in any election is identified by ethnicity, but only by where they reside, and all citizens regardless of their origins have an equal vote, where all votes are counted equally.

...imagine Jerusalem, and the Proposal I have made.

In terms of this bicommunality (and now this bizonality) the world has all over it, our experiment is important, if we have the courage to choose our Freedom based on the Highest Human Principals, the cost will naturally be high.

An agreement like the Annan Plan, on the other hand, cost relatively little, but it is worth far less as well, having the same errors as the Zurich Treaty: about land and the Rule over it, being unclear, depending on the Goodwill of 'others', not being this island's dwellers.

you are principaled, i may be more practical i suppose, and i like to think i know having grown old in a cosmopolitain city that diversity adds to living, and that tolerance, and a Rule of Law is a way to embracing our fear of the unknown, when we are all seeking our own distinction. and in this vain i have to say, the State is supreme by Right in the citizens' representation, but in my proposal the taxpayer is closest to his/her money.

i say there are the things that must be done with no compromise as well. Although there is nothing to stop us from demonstrating this principal in different ways at different levels for ourselves. We can do as we please...this is the dumbfounding thing of our Problem; there is nothing wrong seeking Perfection, first of all to find it and then to choose.

the maps of april and may
circles on the page
by Denktash and Makarios
forgotten as Ecevit's idea
i saw its potential and it
has given me hope ever since.

nothing should be more important than the satisfaction of the displaced first; meaning all of them: originally, in the 60's, and which followed in '74, equally, compassionately, and in the same way.

humanitarian aid can be provided to settlers who do not meet the criteria for homes by Turkish Cypriots, and as Cypriots. (Humanitarian aid to all that will be displaced in any settlement i think is an important issue as well.) futuristically we have to think of what has as the greatest potential the one choice for the island's wealth;

the island should have no military, to divide people.

and in that bill (and OP) you are well within your rights, to feel so strongly, in that we surely agree. in any settlement about the geography however, defining it politically, there will be no Unitary State without a Governance that reflects the people's needs and their desires to identify themselves as persons. within the context of two zones for two societies to grow their own distinction what is wrong with enclaves spotting the island reapportioning the land in a manner which is for the full potential of this island's growth, as well as a demonstration of our commitment to the Principals Humans call Justice.

i'm too tired to edit this and i hope some parts make senxse.

goodnight

[74LB]

well OP, thank-you for your effort. Your point is well taken, and your personal opinion is well noted. However, to you because i believe where i have failed that you will succeed, and to the other posters, please an address(es) where i can mail my personal effort to the two leaders.

ella OP, solve my problem, please. and maybe others will be inspired to do the same.

it is important to me.

repulsewarrior,

Try this for one leader ..............

Presidential Palace
1400 Nicosia
Cyprus.

Tel. (357) 22 867400
Fax. (357) 22 663799
email: [email protected]
[email protected]

http://www.presidency.gov.cy/presidency/presidency.nsf/dmlcontactus_en/dmlcontactus_en?OpenDocument

[74LB]

well OP, thank-you for your effort. Your point is well taken, and your personal opinion is well noted. However, to you because i believe where i have failed that you will succeed, and to the other posters, please an address(es) where i can mail my personal effort to the two leaders.

ella OP, solve my problem, please. and maybe others will be inspired to do the same.

it is important to me.

and this for the other.......

Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus Presidency
Şht. Selahattin Sonat Sok. - Lefkoşa - KKTC
Phone: +90 392 22 83 444 Fax: +90 392 22 72 252

http://www.trncpresidency.org/

I couldn't find an email address on this site, although if you click on Contacts it will allow you to send an email directly.

Don't forget though, that if you intend to use post, you need to add ' Mersin 10, Turkey ' to the end of the address as direct post is not allowed

[paaul12]

i must say that the:

http://www.trncpresidency.org/

seems a much better site than:

http://www.presidency.gov.cy/presidency ... enDocument

its more modern and user friendly dont u think?

[RebelWithoutAPause]

like your mum

[repulsewarrior]

...thank you 74LB, you are most kind i shall remember that.

originally i was surprised that my queries through the AKEL site were stymied. i feel stupid now, but i guess it can be said that i needed the help of a fellow traveller along the way.

Kiria OP, good morning
pardon me for saying that i find you attractive
because i am always thinking of you
your consideration is
thought provoking, and the conflict
excites in us the passion
to be bold, for that
we love, i say
thank-you once again

sorry i am off today, to shovel snow
i will think of my cyprus
while i save a house from flooding.

[Oracle]

i must say that the:

http://www.trncpresidency.org/

seems a much better site than:

http://www.presidency.gov.cy/presidency ... enDocument

its more modern and user friendly dont u think?

Simple things for simple minds ....

Seek simplicity, and distrust it.

.... Alfred North Whitehead

[Oracle]

...thank you 74LB, you are most kind i shall remember that.

originally i was surprised that my queries through the AKEL site were stymied. i feel stupid now, but i guess it can be said that i needed the help of a fellow traveller along the way.

Kiria OP, good morning
pardon me for saying that i find you attractive
because i am always thinking of you
your consideration is
thought provoking, and the conflict
excites in us the passion
to be bold, for that
we love, i say
thank-you once again

sorry i am off today, to shovel snow
i will think of my cyprus
while i save a house from flooding.

RW ... are you a Mountie or Lumberjack perchance?