Cyprus-Forum.com

[denizaksulu]

If only everything in life were perfectly balanced, in harmony and equilibrium ...

Yes, blame can be attached to both sides.

One side (Ottomans / Turks) for invading and attacking a small country ...... and the other side (Cyprus), for not allowing itself to be annihilated, and daring to show resistance and defend itself.

There is blame for actions on both sides ... but it cannot be that both sides were right to do what they did.

Only one side had the right to do what it did ... to defend itself from the unforgettable invaders ... The Ottoman / Turks ....

.................and for TCs to fight for stopping ENOSIS with Greece. How right you are.

[pantheman]

Banaiot, the GCs have always accepted their share of the blame. It is the TCs that refuse to accept theirs. Their only aim is to continue to spread the hatred because they don't really wany a united Cyprus.

You are an absolute phenomenon pantheman.

You write your own stories, tell them and then pretend to believe them too.

Since when did you become the total voice and representative for TC's ?

It's not that TC's refuse to accept any share of blame, this has never been the issue...It's the selective blame forced upon TC's by the likes of yourself which is generally disputed. The engineered blame which appropriately suits your own agenda and perhaps most GC's and as a result, pisses you off that TC's will not conform to the GC agenda.

How frustrating your life must be, you terrible angry little man

Utter Rubbish, I am not the voice of the TCs, Zan, VP and you but a few do that very well indeed.

We have had this blame game many times, I for one and many other GCs here have admitted to the wrong doings on our part, but your partners in arms never do. They only ever reply with other rubbish and propoganda to justify their actions.

Buddy I am angry, I am angry at being a hostage in my own home, by a bunch of criminals who who won't go. Yes I am angry. But Little I am not, I can take good care of myself buster.

Even in this post of yours you don't even acknowledge any blame, you just come out screaming wolf.

Just ask any inmate and he'll alwasy say i'm innocent

[Paphitis]

Guys,

We must all forget the blame game and proceed down the road to re-conciliation. I beleive that GCs and TCs are mature enough to forge a bright future together and make our nation stronger, brighter, more prosperous, with respect and equal opportunity for all citizens. We do not need Greece, Great Britain or Turkey or their Guarantees (no offence to Greece, Great Britain or Turkey). It is just that the time has come for Cypriots to take responsibility for their actions.

In Australia, the new Prime Minister Kevin Rudd made an apology for all the atrocities that Australia inflicted to the Aborigines. Perhaps both President Christofias and Mr Talat can do the same. Mr Christofias can apologise for atrocities commited against TCs and Mr Talat can apologise for atrocities committed against GCs. It is time to build bridges and trust and this could be a significant step forward.

Both communities need to take responsibilty for their actions. It always takes 2 to tango and we both are to blame for our present day predicament.

[Viewpoint]

I have said many times that both sides were to blame if you want confirmation ask Piratis, Miltiades and Kikapu, those who are blind will read but not take in what is being said asthey are conditioned not to absorb such facts.

I applaud Christofias for making such a bold statement, it will take many bold and brave steps from both sides to solve this problem as the ingrained resistence is deep.

The arrogance of some that using all means to defend and fight back against something that is not desired or seen as life threatening is unbelievble. The GC dream for enosis and TC discrmination in 1963 was the biggest mistake of all time, the coup was just the last drop and triggered the partition today. GCs dig deep and ask yourselves how life was for TCs 1963 onwards while you guys took control of the country and prospered we suffered where were the brave of today calling for democracy human rights and no discrimination??? so forgive us for thinking that such chants even in 2008 made by GCs do not carry credibility as TCs do not trust GCs and will never accept becoming just another minority. The sooner GCs understand and accept that they have to share the sooner this matter can be resolved otherwise the 2 leaders attempts will soon fizzle out and the current status quo will continue for a very long time to come.

[Paphitis]

Hey Viewpoint,

It takes a lot of maturity to trust. Are you big enough to let go of the past and move forward for a better future for your kids.

Fortunately, the younger generations of today are very mature, and I doubt that they will make the same mistakes of the past. It is time to move forward.

It is also not a question of minority versus majority. The 2 communities can intgrate to form one strong nation called Cyprus with only Cypriot citizens. We must remember that the year is 2008, and diversity is a good thing. In Australia (a very diverse nation) Greeks and Turks live together. Not one bit of violence. Many are even friends. This is the proof. No one wants war and pain. We all want bright futures, prosperity and our health.

[Oracle]

...double post

[Oracle]

.... I am not the one that has the entire dead of GCs blamed on the Turks. There were thousands killed by the coupists and that is a fact that only explains what was going on and the denial of it can only be for one reason and that is to blame the whole disaster of the Cyprob on us and have done with it.....

There are some common factors which contribute to the outcome of a violent confrontation.

1. The NUMBER of COMBATANTS
How many coupists, anti-coupists, other GCs, TCs and Turks were on Cyprus and at what times during the coup and invasion (s)?

How many GCs fought in the civil war?

And how many GCs fought the Turkish invasion (s)?

2. KILLING MACHINES, KILLING MACHINE OPERATORS and BOMBS
The Turks (>30,000) had ships with cannons, aircraft with bombs, tanks, armoured vehicles, helicopters, artillery, napalm, machine guns, etc. and the trained killing machine operators that went with them.

When the GCs were fighting amongst themselves, what weapons did they have at their disposal and what did they use against each other?

Turkey came into the invasion prepared, and wholly premeditated ... how well-prepared were the GCs against the timing of the coup?

3. HATE
Of course Greek leftists and rightists hated each other. The civil war in Greece a generation earlier is proof of that. But did the leftists or rightists hate all GCs?

However, the Turks hated ALL GCs Indignant Turkish soldiers wanting revenge for those thousands of "Turkish children murdered in bathtubs" ... from the variety and endless propaganda that they were force-fed.

4. OBJECTIVES
Ethnic-cleansing to achieve the long-awaited 40% ownership of Cyprus.

5. TRAINING
Trained killing machine operators. VP and others have extolled these virtues countless times.

6. DISCRIMINATION
During the course of the civil war, did or could GCs discriminate between friend or foe amongst themselves? Would they be cautious who they killed or was it no questions asked killing? But it might have been a fellow comrade!

Did the Turks discriminate amongst the GCs? No! .... all Greeks and GCs would have been fair game ... and easier to identify.

7. TIME
5 days is the duration from the 15th to the 20th July. What sort of casualties could the coupists and GCs inflict on each other in this period with the influence of factors mentioned above?

Perhaps you would like to add your own factors that support your statement coupists killed more GCs than Turkey.

The real picture that is emerging is:

1. Why Turkey, WITHOUT QUESTION, actually endangered the TCs in the short term, with the choice she made in 1974

By declaring war on GCs ... they had effectively turned them into the enemy of the TC ... not just in terms of any "inter-communal" conflicts which had by 1974 effectively all ended, but real war situation enemies ... so that the GCs would have been well within their rights to defend themselves against not only Turks but also TCs ... and rightfully also go on the offensive too.

2. Why has the world declared the invasion illegal and the "TRNC" legally invalid.
http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=16484

3. There is no credible evidence that Turkey was acting as a guarantor power ... only that it abused its position for its personal agenda, ethnic cleansing of GCs and appropriation of nearly half of Cyprus.

[Paphitis]

There are some common factors which contribute to the outcome of a violent confrontation.

1. The NUMBER of COMBATANTS
How many coupists, anti-coupists, other GCs, TCs and Turks were on Cyprus and at what times during the coup and invasion (s)?

How many GCs fought in the civil war?

And how many GCs fought the Turkish invasion (s)?

2. KILLING MACHINES, KILLING MACHINE OPERATORS and BOMBS
The Turks (>30,000) had ships with cannons, aircraft with bombs, tanks, armoured vehicles, helicopters, artillery, napalm, machine guns, etc. and the trained killing machine operators that went with them.

When the GCs were fighting amongst themselves, what weapons did they have at their disposal and what did they use against each other?

Turkey came into the invasion prepared, and wholly premeditated ... how well-prepared were the GCs against the timing of the coup?

3. HATE
Of course Greek leftists and rightists hated each other. The civil war in Greece a generation earlier is proof of that. But did the leftists or rightists hate all GCs?

However, the Turks hated ALL GCs Indignant Turkish soldiers wanting revenge for those thousands of "Turkish children murdered in bathtubs" ... from the variety and endless propaganda that they were force-fed.

4. OBJECTIVES
Ethnic-cleansing to achieve the long-awaited 40% ownership of Cyprus.

5. TRAINING
Trained killing machine operators. VP and others have extolled these virtues countless times.

6. DISCRIMINATION
During the course of the civil war, did or could GCs discriminate between friend or foe amongst themselves? Would they be cautious who they killed or was it no questions asked killing? But it might have been a fellow comrade!

Did the Turks discriminate amongst the GCs? No! .... all Greeks and GCs would have been fair game ... and easier to identify.

7. TIME
5 days is the duration from the 15th to the 20th July. What sort of casualties could the coupists and GCs inflict on each other in this period with the influence of factors mentioned above?

Perhaps you would like to add your own factors that support your statement coupists killed more GCs than Turkey.

The real picture that is emerging is:

1. Why Turkey, WITHOUT QUESTION, actually endangered the TCs in the short term, with the choice she made in 1974

By declaring war on GCs ... they had effectively turned them into the enemy of the TC ... not just in terms of any "inter-communal" conflicts which had by 1974 effectively all ended, but real war situation enemies ... so that the GCs would have been well within their rights to defend themselves against not only Turks but also TCs ... and rightfully also go on the offensive too.

2. Why has the world declared the invasion illegal and the "TRNC" legally invalid.
http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=16484

3. There is no credible evidence that Turkey was acting as a guarantor power ... only that it abused its position for its personal agenda, ethnic cleansing of GCs and appropriation of nearly half of Cyprus.


_________________
The difficult part in an argument is not to defend one's opinion, but rather to know it ... Maurois

All this belongs to the past. It is know time to look forward for our future. If we try, we will find a common ground with nutual respect between all GCs and TCs.

Personally, I am very excited due to this current environment in which we can all search for a solution.

[shahmaran]

Blablabla!

Even your President accepts more responsibility then you do Phoenix, but here you are still spreading unfounded crap no matter what

Defence my arse!

If all you were doing was "defending" then why were the TC's having to "defend" themselves in their own country?

Who were we all "defending" ourselves from?

Maybe the donkeys planned an invasion

[denizaksulu]

.... I am not the one that has the entire dead of GCs blamed on the Turks. There were thousands killed by the coupists and that is a fact that only explains what was going on and the denial of it can only be for one reason and that is to blame the whole disaster of the Cyprob on us and have done with it.....

There are some common factors which contribute to the outcome of a violent confrontation.

1. The NUMBER of COMBATANTS
How many coupists, anti-coupists, other GCs, TCs and Turks were on Cyprus and at what times during the coup and invasion (s)?

How many GCs fought in the civil war?

And how many GCs fought the Turkish invasion (s)?

2. KILLING MACHINES, KILLING MACHINE OPERATORS and BOMBS
The Turks (>30,000) had ships with cannons, aircraft with bombs, tanks, armoured vehicles, helicopters, artillery, napalm, machine guns, etc. and the trained killing machine operators that went with them.

When the GCs were fighting amongst themselves, what weapons did they have at their disposal and what did they use against each other?

Turkey came into the invasion prepared, and wholly premeditated ... how well-prepared were the GCs against the timing of the coup?

3. HATE
Of course Greek leftists and rightists hated each other. The civil war in Greece a generation earlier is proof of that. But did the leftists or rightists hate all GCs?

However, the Turks hated ALL GCs Indignant Turkish soldiers wanting revenge for those thousands of "Turkish children murdered in bathtubs" ... from the variety and endless propaganda that they were force-fed.

4. OBJECTIVES
Ethnic-cleansing to achieve the long-awaited 40% ownership of Cyprus.

5. TRAINING
Trained killing machine operators. VP and others have extolled these virtues countless times.

6. DISCRIMINATION
During the course of the civil war, did or could GCs discriminate between friend or foe amongst themselves? Would they be cautious who they killed or was it no questions asked killing? But it might have been a fellow comrade!

Did the Turks discriminate amongst the GCs? No! .... all Greeks and GCs would have been fair game ... and easier to identify.

7. TIME
5 days is the duration from the 15th to the 20th July. What sort of casualties could the coupists and GCs inflict on each other in this period with the influence of factors mentioned above?

Perhaps you would like to add your own factors that support your statement coupists killed more GCs than Turkey.

The real picture that is emerging is:

1. Why Turkey, WITHOUT QUESTION, actually endangered the TCs in the short term, with the choice she made in 1974

By declaring war on GCs ... they had effectively turned them into the enemy of the TC ... not just in terms of any "inter-communal" conflicts which had by 1974 effectively all ended, but real war situation enemies ... so that the GCs would have been well within their rights to defend themselves against not only Turks but also TCs ... and rightfully also go on the offensive too.

2. Why has the world declared the invasion illegal and the "TRNC" legally invalid.
http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=16484

3. There is no credible evidence that Turkey was acting as a guarantor power ... only that it abused its position for its personal agenda, ethnic cleansing of GCs and appropriation of nearly half of Cyprus.

Thanks for the info Phoenix. Prior to 1974, it was the other way round. You had the sledge-hammer, and we were the nuts. (for allowing you to wield the hammer). When Turkey came with a larger one ............

What is the point you are struggling to make OrPh?