Cyprus-Forum.com

[Paphitis]

VP,

There are nicknames used to express anger, ie calling the people who took over our property in the north thieves, which is way off regarding them as racially inferior. Maybe I am confused, but as far as I recall we never had in Cyprus cafes divided in two areas, one for GCs one for TCs, or separate seats on buses etc. On the contrary, we had plenty of mixed villages and neighborhoods.

Now let me offer a couple of examples. In the Spanish civil war the republicans fought the fascists and hundreds of thousands were killed. In Greece in 1946 there was a civil war between communists and the government and 600 000 were killed. Obviously the two sides hated each other, but I do not see that as being reason to call this dislike racism.

In Cyprus we had a civil war, which happened to have been on ethnic as well as political lines. Is that reason to claim that the cause of this civil war was racism?

If you insist on finding some linstitutional racist elements in this conflict then the only one I can find is the article of the TRNC constitution which attempted to confiscate GC property.

Have you been to Pile? everything is divided between TCs and GCs, were you around in the 1970s when TCs could not use certain beaches for fear of being attacked both verbally and physically, just a few examples of how we lived together in the past that does not fit in with your stereo type.

This is not the case in Cyprus today. In Cyprus now we have, Turkish Cypriots that live south of the Green line, Russians, Sri Lankans, Bulgarians, loads of British, Pakistanis, Latin, Maronite, Armenian, some French, some Germans, and some Swedes. The Cyprus of the 70s is long gone. Things have changed a lot, and Cyprus is getting as diverse as Australia, US and Canada. It is becomming a melting pot and racism is fast disappearing. The last remnants of racism will die when the older generations pass and are replaced with the younger generations. And I am not generalisisng that all older people are racist, only a minority may be.

This remains to be seen as you are still having problems with "melting" Pontians and Sri Lanken, Indians etc as you see them as inferior just like you did the TCs back in the 1960s and 1970s and to some extent today.

Viewpoint,

Your comment makes me angry. Cypriots do not consider themselves the Arian race and superior to everyone else. If anything, Cypriots are very capable of taking a good look at themselves and having a laugh. We are not perfect ourselves and we have many unique chaotic traits which makes Cypriots very unique and different. It also gives us character.

As for the Pontians and Indians, we are not racist to them. Maybe you are confusing this with the treatment of our massive illegal immigration problem, which incidently, most of them enter from the north. Yes, when we find illegal immigrants, we arrest and deport most of them unless they get refugee status.

[Kikapu]

Have you been to Pile? everything is divided between TCs and GCs, were you around in the 1970s when TCs could not use certain beaches for fear of being attacked both verbally and physically, just a few examples of how we lived together in the past that does not fit in with your stereo type.

VP,

Unless it was an exceptional day in Pile when I was there last year, despite there being a TC and a GC coffee shops almost facing each other across the street from each other, there were GC's playing Tavla (Backgammon) with TC's in the TC coffee shop. So when you say that everything is divided in Pile, lets understand what you mean VP, and that is, just like anywhere in the world, there are ownerships of businesses by different ethnic groups, and Pile is no exception. This does not mean however, that the towns businesses are segregated to only serve their own ethnic people. The way you worded your sentence, tends to give the unsuspecting reader on the forum, that the town is segregated, which is not true.

[Paphitis]

VP,

There are nicknames used to express anger, ie calling the people who took over our property in the north thieves, which is way off regarding them as racially inferior. Maybe I am confused, but as far as I recall we never had in Cyprus cafes divided in two areas, one for GCs one for TCs, or separate seats on buses etc. On the contrary, we had plenty of mixed villages and neighborhoods.

Now let me offer a couple of examples. In the Spanish civil war the republicans fought the fascists and hundreds of thousands were killed. In Greece in 1946 there was a civil war between communists and the government and 600 000 were killed. Obviously the two sides hated each other, but I do not see that as being reason to call this dislike racism.

In Cyprus we had a civil war, which happened to have been on ethnic as well as political lines. Is that reason to claim that the cause of this civil war was racism?

If you insist on finding some linstitutional racist elements in this conflict then the only one I can find is the article of the TRNC constitution which attempted to confiscate GC property.

Have you been to Pile? everything is divided between TCs and GCs, were you around in the 1970s when TCs could not use certain beaches for fear of being attacked both verbally and physically, just a few examples of how we lived together in the past that does not fit in with your stereo type.

This is not the case in Cyprus today. In Cyprus now we have, Turkish Cypriots that live south of the Green line, Russians, Sri Lankans, Bulgarians, loads of British, Pakistanis, Latin, Maronite, Armenian, some French, some Germans, and some Swedes. The Cyprus of the 70s is long gone. Things have changed a lot, and Cyprus is getting as diverse as Australia, US and Canada. It is becomming a melting pot and racism is fast disappearing. The last remnants of racism will die when the older generations pass and are replaced with the younger generations. And I am not generalisisng that all older people are racist, only a minority may be.

Paphitis have you read Kuhn's "The Structure of Scientific Revolutions"? ......

No I have not. I might look it up.

But I am an evolutionist.

The take home message from Kuhn, is that for ideas to take hold or be dropped from cultural acceptance, the older generation has to be replaced. So effectively there is an evolution from generation to generation.

I would agree with this message. And it looks like that some forum members need to be replaced so that all the negativity can disappear. Some people (I do not want to mention names) are so hell bent for partition which will cause the destruction of both GCs and TCs and our bueatiful island.

[Viewpoint]

Your positive approach is refreshing I have to firstly acknowledge this but you are hiding behind how you wish thing were and how they really are. Do you have problem with Russian/Ponitians? bombs going off, a cultural difference? how are your "workers" (some would say slaves) from the east treated and viewed by GCs? These people are suffering what we suffered back in history so whats the difference, Ill tell you they cannot fight back but we did and will. We will not be a minority in a GC state, there are 2 partners one GC the other TC and the solution should take this into account 100%, we will not be fobbed off with minority rights.

[Kikapu]

There is always going to be "racism" towards minorities, and I do not mean minorities based on their ethnicity's, but rather their economic standings. The poor are always discriminated directly or indirectly by those who's economic standings are better. It is the same all over the world and one cannot escape it. It is true as VP says, that certain people are discriminated, but not based on their colour of their skin or how they speak the English Language, but because of ignorance and superiority complex of those who believe that they are better than others, just because. This is very evident in Turkey for instance, where those with money look down on those who are poor and are just there to serve the rest. Of course, once a year during "Kurban Bayram", the well to do rid of all their sins for the year by offering meat to the poor from freshly slaughtered sacrificial lamb. As far as I know, the Turks do not hate Turks therefore it is not Racism, but economic superiority. So lets not confuse direct racism with economic superiority.

[Oracle]

Your positive approach is refreshing I have to firstly acknowledge this but you are hiding behind how you wish thing were and how they really are. Do you have problem with Russian/Ponitians? bombs going off, a cultural difference? how are your "workers" (some would say slaves) from the east treated and viewed by GCs? These people are suffering what we suffered back in history so whats the difference, Ill tell you they cannot fight back but we did and will. We will not be a minority in a GC state, there are 2 partners one GC the other TC and the solution should take this into account 100%, we will not be fobbed off with minority rights.

VP ... Your creation the "TRNC", is without doubt one of the most "racist" vestiges on Earth.

GCs have been forcibly removed in order to be replaced by another "race" ... of Turks.

Desist from this idiotic stance of ascribing mere neighbourly differences between people to "racism" ... whilst ignoring the systemic, political, institutionalised, cultural and sociological racism that exists today in the "TRNC".

[Paphitis]

Your positive approach is refreshing I have to firstly acknowledge this but you are hiding behind how you wish thing were and how they really are. Do you have problem with Russian/Ponitians? bombs going off, a cultural difference? how are your "workers" (some would say slaves) from the east treated and viewed by GCs? These people are suffering what we suffered back in history so whats the difference, Ill tell you they cannot fight back but we did and will. We will not be a minority in a GC state, there are 2 partners one GC the other TC and the solution should take this into account 100%, we will not be fobbed off with minority rights.

Which ever country you go to there is going to be racism between people. But institutionalised racism in RoC does not exist. Pontians and whoever else have the right of free higher education, can get jobs, open a business, attend our schools etc etc. This is not the case for our enclaved GCs in Karpasia for instance. The "TRNC" has institutionalised racism.

[Paphitis]

Your positive approach is refreshing I have to firstly acknowledge this but you are hiding behind how you wish thing were and how they really are. Do you have problem with Russian/Ponitians? bombs going off, a cultural difference? how are your "workers" (some would say slaves) from the east treated and viewed by GCs? These people are suffering what we suffered back in history so whats the difference, Ill tell you they cannot fight back but we did and will. We will not be a minority in a GC state, there are 2 partners one GC the other TC and the solution should take this into account 100%, we will not be fobbed off with minority rights.

And GCs are not going to fob off TCs with minority rights. TCs can enjoy equal rights as CYPRIOT citizens.

How many TCs have RoC passports and ID cards. I will put it to you that there are many thousands. They enjoy equal rights as the rest of us. In the last elections we had many TCs voting.

Viewpoint, it is very refreshing to be positive. Maybe you should try it. And who knows, when Cyprus is unified, I will meet you and we can have lunch as Cypriot compatriots. It is a challenge, but we must prevail.

[Paphitis]

President Christofias and Mr Talat have just finished their meeting and it has not finished in deadlock. Both men remained positive, and agreed to open the Ledra crossing as soon as is technically posible, and also agreed that technical commitees will be set up within 7 days who would commence discussions on a solution. They will then meet again in 3 months to discuss progress.

We all now have hope. The key is to remain positive.

I plead to all members to stay positive and to refrain from any negativity. This forum should be a bridge between GCs and TCs and not a forum where we have slinging matches, racist comments, innuendos or anachronistic thoughts.

Lets give peace a chance. We all deserve this, it is our right.

[wallace]

Nice words Paphitis!!! Ledra will open by the end of this month. Small step but it will help.