Cyprus-Forum.com

[Oracle]

Make a list of every country in the world.... it does not change the fact that Turkey has one of the bloodiest histories of the last Century .....

Perhaps it was because the Ottomans/Turks were at war on and off with newborn Greece, Bulgaria, Moldavia, Romania (all the Balkans) Russia, British, the Arab states, Armenians, Italians, the French, did I forget anyone? oh yes their own disaffected traitorous subjects, the Ottomans! Do you still wonder why? They all wanted a bit of the sick man of Europe.

Whereas the Turks have always identified themselves as Turks

If Greece had to be re-born it was to shake off the shackles from its enslavement by the Turks .

The label "sick man of Europe" was not given to Turkey because someone felt sorry for it being unwell ... on the contrary "sick" signified psychotic, genocidal, war-mongering ... you know, all the evils!

Squirm all you can OrPh. All of Europe were waiting for the 'Sick man' to pass away so they coulc carve it up among themselves, like hungry jackals that they are.


PLEAE PUT YOUR THESAURUS AWAY or you will have an accident with it.

Really deniz ... so why are Turkey so desperate to join the hungry jackals then?

BTW .... I have not used a thesaurus for months ... ... but I have the same problem in real life ... I get asked to explain in simpler terms!

(However, looking at my previous posts, I really do not see where your difficulty could lie Deniz ... all very simply presented .....)

[denizaksulu]

Make a list of every country in the world.... it does not change the fact that Turkey has one of the bloodiest histories of the last Century .....

Perhaps it was because the Ottomans/Turks were at war on and off with newborn Greece, Bulgaria, Moldavia, Romania (all the Balkans) Russia, British, the Arab states, Armenians, Italians, the French, did I forget anyone? oh yes their own disaffected traitorous subjects, the Ottomans! Do you still wonder why? They all wanted a bit of the sick man of Europe.

Whereas the Turks have always identified themselves as Turks

If Greece had to be re-born it was to shake off the shackles from its enslavement by the Turks .

The label "sick man of Europe" was not given to Turkey because someone felt sorry for it being unwell ... on the contrary "sick" signified psychotic, genocidal, war-mongering ... you know, all the evils!

Squirm all you can OrPh. All of Europe were waiting for the 'Sick man' to pass away so they coulc carve it up among themselves, like hungry jackals that they are.


PLEAE PUT YOUR THESAURUS AWAY or you will have an accident with it.

Really deniz ... so why are Turkey so desperate to join the hungry jackals then?

BTW .... I have not used a thesaurus for months ... ... but I have the same problem in real life ... I get asked to explain in simpler terms!

(However, looking at my previous posts, I really do not see where your difficulty could lie Deniz ... all very simply presented .....)

Does that mean that all the sick people lying in hospital beds are 'psychotic', genocidal and war-mongering'. Must be a true description of you, that. That is what you call 'simly presented'. You are the 'Mother of all bamboozlers'. You come up with so much and means absolutely nothing.

[Oracle]

Make a list of every country in the world.... it does not change the fact that Turkey has one of the bloodiest histories of the last Century .....

Perhaps it was because the Ottomans/Turks were at war on and off with newborn Greece, Bulgaria, Moldavia, Romania (all the Balkans) Russia, British, the Arab states, Armenians, Italians, the French, did I forget anyone? oh yes their own disaffected traitorous subjects, the Ottomans! Do you still wonder why? They all wanted a bit of the sick man of Europe.

Whereas the Turks have always identified themselves as Turks

If Greece had to be re-born it was to shake off the shackles from its enslavement by the Turks .

The label "sick man of Europe" was not given to Turkey because someone felt sorry for it being unwell ... on the contrary "sick" signified psychotic, genocidal, war-mongering ... you know, all the evils!

Squirm all you can OrPh. All of Europe were waiting for the 'Sick man' to pass away so they coulc carve it up among themselves, like hungry jackals that they are.


PLEAE PUT YOUR THESAURUS AWAY or you will have an accident with it.

Really deniz ... so why are Turkey so desperate to join the hungry jackals then?

BTW .... I have not used a thesaurus for months ... ... but I have the same problem in real life ... I get asked to explain in simpler terms!

(However, looking at my previous posts, I really do not see where your difficulty could lie Deniz ... all very simply presented .....)

Does that mean that all the sick people lying in hospital beds are 'psychotic', genocidal and war-mongering'. Must be a true description of you, that. That is what you call 'simly presented'. You are the 'Mother of all bamboozlers'. You come up with so much and means absolutely nothing.

The delights of the English Language, dear deniz .... still confuses you huh?

[denizaksulu]

Make a list of every country in the world.... it does not change the fact that Turkey has one of the bloodiest histories of the last Century .....

Perhaps it was because the Ottomans/Turks were at war on and off with newborn Greece, Bulgaria, Moldavia, Romania (all the Balkans) Russia, British, the Arab states, Armenians, Italians, the French, did I forget anyone? oh yes their own disaffected traitorous subjects, the Ottomans! Do you still wonder why? They all wanted a bit of the sick man of Europe.

Whereas the Turks have always identified themselves as Turks

If Greece had to be re-born it was to shake off the shackles from its enslavement by the Turks .

The label "sick man of Europe" was not given to Turkey because someone felt sorry for it being unwell ... on the contrary "sick" signified psychotic, genocidal, war-mongering ... you know, all the evils!

Squirm all you can OrPh. All of Europe were waiting for the 'Sick man' to pass away so they coulc carve it up among themselves, like hungry jackals that they are.


PLEAE PUT YOUR THESAURUS AWAY or you will have an accident with it.

Really deniz ... so why are Turkey so desperate to join the hungry jackals then?

BTW .... I have not used a thesaurus for months ... ... but I have the same problem in real life ... I get asked to explain in simpler terms!

(However, looking at my previous posts, I really do not see where your difficulty could lie Deniz ... all very simply presented .....)

Does that mean that all the sick people lying in hospital beds are 'psychotic', genocidal and war-mongering'. Must be a true description of you, that. That is what you call 'simly presented'. You are the 'Mother of all bamboozlers'. You come up with so much and means absolutely nothing.

The delights of the English Language, dear deniz .... still confuses you huh?

The delights of the English language never confuse me. Not even your 'clever' use of the language will confuse me.

[observer]

Oracle

When in its history has Turkey truly carried out a"peace-keeping" mission?

Lebanon, Afghanistan, Bosnia, and if you want to go back far enough, Korea. Many would add Cyprus where there has been peace for over 30 years.

Ignorance ... ignorance ... ignorance ... mixed with a large dose of turkophobia

So the Turkish idea of bringing peace is to exterminate opposition to its presence .....

You do not know the meaning of the term "peace-keeping" ....

A graveyard is peaceful, because all lie dead.

Ignorance ... ignorance ... ignorance ... as we go from Torkophobia to large scale xenophobia.

Lebanon – UNFIL Contributors: Belgium, China, Croatia, Cyprus, Finland, France, FYR of Macedonia, Germany, Ghana, Greece, Guatemala, Hungary, India, Indonesia, Ireland, Italy, Malaysia, Nepal, Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Qatar, Republic of Korea, Slovenia, Spain, Tanzania and Turkey.

Afghanistan – ISAF Contributors: Albania, Austria, Azerbaijan, Belgium, Bulgaria, Canada, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxemburg, Macedonia, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Poland, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Turkey, United Kingdom, United States of America,

Bosnia – SFOR Contributors: Albania, Austria, Argentina, Australia, Belgium, Bulgaria, Canada, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Morocco, Netherlands, New Zealand Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Russia, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Turkey, United Kingdom, United States of America.

As I said ... Turkey does not know the meaning of "peace-keeping" ....

From www.parliament.uk :

..... with an emphasis on restraint, especially on exports to governments which violate human rights or to countries in areas of conflict. This leads CAAT to focus its campaigning on sales to particular countries, one of them being Turkey.

The leading role of the armed forces within Turkish society and government; its occupation of northern Cyprus in 1974; its long established military rivalry with Greece, notwithstanding their mutual membership of NATO; its poor record on human rights, and its harsh treatment of the Kurdish people who live within its boundaries, and, indeed, over the Iraqi border, are well documented.

Amongst the eight criteria are Criterion Two which covers "The respect of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the country of final destination"; Criterion Three "The internal situation in the country of final destination as a function of the existence of tensions or armed conflicts"; and Criterion Four "Preservation of regional peace, security and stability". Sales to Turkey do not meet these criteria.

CAAT believes that Turkey's strategic geographical position, situated between Europe, the Balkans, the Middle East, the Mediterranean and the Black Sea, as well as, historically, the Soviet Union, has led the UK and other western governments to overlook its negative attributes when considering military relations.

Through its military collaboration, the UK is giving Turkey's military a respectability it does not deserve, and undermining those working for justice and human rights.

Some of the UK-supplied equipment is directly used in human rights abuses. For instance, the Akrep vehicle, produced locally in Turkey under licence from the UK company Landrover, saw service against the Kurdish people in northern Iraq. (Independent on Sunday, 25 June 1995)

Turkey's military links with Israel, cemented by arms industry co- operation and military training pacts in 1996, are seen as threatening by other countries in the region, particularly Syria. These ties have also been seen as a way for Turkey to circumvent the restrictions that the United States and some European countries, such as Germany, have from time to time imposed. (Progressive magazine, December 1998)

SPENDING ON ARMS

According to the United States' Department of Defense's "Report on Allied Contributions to the Common Defense", March 2001, Turkey's military expenditure as a proportion of GDP rose during the 1990's whilst that of most NATO member countries fell.

"Blind Eye". Of grave concern are the allegations, made by Dr Eric Herring of Bristol University, that RAF pilots patrolling the "no-fly zone" in northern Iraq are recalled to their base in Turkey in order to allow the Turkish airforce to bomb the Kurdish people in Iraq. (New Statesman, 19 March 2001)

CONCLUSIONS

Turkey's human rights record and the influence of the military in Turkish society need to be addressed before Turkey becomes an EU member state. These moral implications are of utmost importance, but there are financial ones too. The country has major economic difficulties yet the cuts elsewhere in the budget are greater than those in military spending There is obvious distortion of the economy by the Turkish military and EU citizens should not be expected to financially underwrite it.

The lack of democratic input into European foreign and security policies in general, and the integration of military industry in particular, would almost certainly be exacerbated if Turkey were to join the European Union.

As Turkey clearly fails to meet the Consolidated EU and National Arms Export Licensing Criteria, the UK government should impose an embargo to cover all goods needing a licence under Part III of Schedule 1 to the Export of Goods (Control) Order 1994. It should encourage the other EU states to do likewise.

In response to the question "when in its history has Turkey truly carried out a"peace-keeping" mission?", and I give 3 examples, along with a list of other countries who contributed to the same peace keeping missions.

But such is blind prejudice, that my answer is ignored and instead, yet another opinion piece is posted from the web site www.parliament.uk which might believe some reading it to think that it was the view of the British government. Instead, it is the submission of a self-appointed body, the CAAT, or to give it its full name, the Campaign Against the Arms Trade made in 2002. You can read it on CAAT's website, here: http://www.caat.org.uk/publications/gov ... n-0102.php Nice people though they are, their aim is to end the sale of weapons, so produce these sort of tracts against any government wanting to buy weapons.

Oracle seems a funny sort of person, with an endless list of opinion pieces calling Turkey expansionist and so on, which fall apart the moment a few facts are introduced into the thread. I suppose before the internet was available she would have been the sort of person who wrote long letters to the press in green ink.

[Oracle]

Oracle

When in its history has Turkey truly carried out a"peace-keeping" mission?

Lebanon, Afghanistan, Bosnia, and if you want to go back far enough, Korea. Many would add Cyprus where there has been peace for over 30 years.

Ignorance ... ignorance ... ignorance ... mixed with a large dose of turkophobia

So the Turkish idea of bringing peace is to exterminate opposition to its presence .....

You do not know the meaning of the term "peace-keeping" ....

A graveyard is peaceful, because all lie dead.

Ignorance ... ignorance ... ignorance ... as we go from Torkophobia to large scale xenophobia.

Lebanon – UNFIL Contributors: Belgium, China, Croatia, Cyprus, Finland, France, FYR of Macedonia, Germany, Ghana, Greece, Guatemala, Hungary, India, Indonesia, Ireland, Italy, Malaysia, Nepal, Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Qatar, Republic of Korea, Slovenia, Spain, Tanzania and Turkey.

Afghanistan – ISAF Contributors: Albania, Austria, Azerbaijan, Belgium, Bulgaria, Canada, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxemburg, Macedonia, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Poland, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Turkey, United Kingdom, United States of America,

Bosnia – SFOR Contributors: Albania, Austria, Argentina, Australia, Belgium, Bulgaria, Canada, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Morocco, Netherlands, New Zealand Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Russia, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Turkey, United Kingdom, United States of America.

As I said ... Turkey does not know the meaning of "peace-keeping" ....

From www.parliament.uk :

..... with an emphasis on restraint, especially on exports to governments which violate human rights or to countries in areas of conflict. This leads CAAT to focus its campaigning on sales to particular countries, one of them being Turkey.

The leading role of the armed forces within Turkish society and government; its occupation of northern Cyprus in 1974; its long established military rivalry with Greece, notwithstanding their mutual membership of NATO; its poor record on human rights, and its harsh treatment of the Kurdish people who live within its boundaries, and, indeed, over the Iraqi border, are well documented.

Amongst the eight criteria are Criterion Two which covers "The respect of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the country of final destination"; Criterion Three "The internal situation in the country of final destination as a function of the existence of tensions or armed conflicts"; and Criterion Four "Preservation of regional peace, security and stability". Sales to Turkey do not meet these criteria.

CAAT believes that Turkey's strategic geographical position, situated between Europe, the Balkans, the Middle East, the Mediterranean and the Black Sea, as well as, historically, the Soviet Union, has led the UK and other western governments to overlook its negative attributes when considering military relations.

Through its military collaboration, the UK is giving Turkey's military a respectability it does not deserve, and undermining those working for justice and human rights.

Some of the UK-supplied equipment is directly used in human rights abuses. For instance, the Akrep vehicle, produced locally in Turkey under licence from the UK company Landrover, saw service against the Kurdish people in northern Iraq. (Independent on Sunday, 25 June 1995)

Turkey's military links with Israel, cemented by arms industry co- operation and military training pacts in 1996, are seen as threatening by other countries in the region, particularly Syria. These ties have also been seen as a way for Turkey to circumvent the restrictions that the United States and some European countries, such as Germany, have from time to time imposed. (Progressive magazine, December 1998)

SPENDING ON ARMS

According to the United States' Department of Defense's "Report on Allied Contributions to the Common Defense", March 2001, Turkey's military expenditure as a proportion of GDP rose during the 1990's whilst that of most NATO member countries fell.

"Blind Eye". Of grave concern are the allegations, made by Dr Eric Herring of Bristol University, that RAF pilots patrolling the "no-fly zone" in northern Iraq are recalled to their base in Turkey in order to allow the Turkish airforce to bomb the Kurdish people in Iraq. (New Statesman, 19 March 2001)

CONCLUSIONS

Turkey's human rights record and the influence of the military in Turkish society need to be addressed before Turkey becomes an EU member state. These moral implications are of utmost importance, but there are financial ones too. The country has major economic difficulties yet the cuts elsewhere in the budget are greater than those in military spending There is obvious distortion of the economy by the Turkish military and EU citizens should not be expected to financially underwrite it.

The lack of democratic input into European foreign and security policies in general, and the integration of military industry in particular, would almost certainly be exacerbated if Turkey were to join the European Union.

As Turkey clearly fails to meet the Consolidated EU and National Arms Export Licensing Criteria, the UK government should impose an embargo to cover all goods needing a licence under Part III of Schedule 1 to the Export of Goods (Control) Order 1994. It should encourage the other EU states to do likewise.

In response to the question "when in its history has Turkey truly carried out a"peace-keeping" mission?", and I give 3 examples, along with a list of other countries who contributed to the same peace keeping missions.

But such is blind prejudice, that my answer is ignored and instead, yet another opinion piece is posted from the web site www.parliament.uk which might believe some reading it to think that it was the view of the British government. Instead, it is the submission of a self-appointed body, the CAAT, or to give it its full name, the Campaign Against the Arms Trade made in 2002. You can read it on CAAT's website, here: http://www.caat.org.uk/publications/gov ... n-0102.php Nice people though they are, their aim is to end the sale of weapons, so produce these sort of tracts against any government wanting to buy weapons.

Oracle seems a funny sort of person, with an endless list of opinion pieces calling Turkey expansionist and so on, which fall apart the moment a few facts are introduced into the thread. I suppose before the internet was available she would have been the sort of person who wrote long letters to the press in green ink.

Stupid man ... the CAAT reference is left in .... they are a legitimate body that the UK parliament lends an ear to ...... they exemplify the fact that Turkey knows nothing about "Peace Keeping" which is why I pasted it ...... thank you for re-iterating it ....

[bilako22]

Peace-keeping ? Turkey has kept you crazy greeks at peace since 1974

[observer]

Oracle

Stupid man ... the CAAT reference is left in .... they are a legitimate body that the UK parliament lends an ear to ...... they exemplify the fact that Turkey knows nothing about "Peace Keeping" which is why I pasted it ...... thank you for re-iterating it ....

I think you are losing it. CAAT are self appointed campaigners and lobbyists of no official standing. What you keep posting is other people's opinions with which you agree. What I keep posting is factual information which you ignore as it doesn't fit into your world view.

Ignore facts and your opinions suffer.

Oracle - "Turkey knows nothing about peacekeeping".
Observer - "Turkey has soldiers engaged in 3 UN/NATO peacekeeping missions".