Cyprus-Forum.com

[Big Al]

firstly lets look at some undeniable facts...
1. for a united cyprus to exist peacefully you need to have both communities gel and become one community.
2. a community is able to successfully function when there is a shared culture amongst its people.
3. the components of a culture are language, beliefs & values and symbols.

Lets know define the components of culture:
* Language is self explanatory
* beliefs: statements held to be true
* values: differentiates right feelings, thoughts and behavior from wrong feelings, thoughts and behavior
* symbols: anything that carries a particular meaning to a group.

Lets now see how compatible to TC and GC cultures are, as everyone agrees that to have a functioning community you must have a shared culture.
* Language, lets see, Turkish and Greek (with a funny accent), some shared words but the language dont sound the same, look the same, nor do they have similar origins. Unless your bilingual a TC cant understand a GC and vice a versa.
* Beliefs, poles apart here, one believes jesus was the son of god the other believes god cannot have a son. one believes Mohammed was gods last prophet the other definitely does not. Quran/Bible two very different beliefs.
* Values: the feelings/thoughts of TC again completely different to that of GC. should cyprus be united/divided? should TC have self or not? should Turkey remove its soldiers from northern cyprus? Should people that have migrated from Turkey be forced back? etc etc ..30 plus years of a divided cyprus has shown what TC believe to be right and true is not what GC believe to be right and true.
* The crescent moon and star, the red of the turkish flag, mosques, symbols that mean something to TC. To GC the orthodox cross, their churches etc again to similarities.

My point here is how the hell can a united community function when the cultures are so different. Wake up people partition is the ONLY SOLUTION.

[Kifeas]

firstly lets look at some undeniable facts...
1. for a united cyprus to exist peacefully you need to have both communities gel and become one community.
2. a community is able to successfully function when there is a shared culture amongst its people.
3. the components of a culture are language, beliefs & values and symbols.

Lets know define the components of culture:
* Language is self explanatory
* beliefs: statements held to be true
* values: differentiates right feelings, thoughts and behavior from wrong feelings, thoughts and behavior
* symbols: anything that carries a particular meaning to a group.

Lets now see how compatible to TC and GC cultures are, as everyone agrees that to have a functioning community you must have a shared culture.
* Language, lets see, Turkish and Greek (with a funny accent), some shared words but the language dont sound the same, look the same, nor do they have similar origins. Unless your bilingual a TC cant understand a GC and vice a versa.
* Beliefs, poles apart here, one believes jesus was the son of god the other believes god cannot have a son. one believes Mohammed was gods last prophet the other definitely does not. Quran/Bible two very different beliefs.
* Values: the feelings/thoughts of TC again completely different to that of GC. should cyprus be united/divided? should TC have self or not? should Turkey remove its soldiers from northern cyprus? Should people that have migrated from Turkey be forced back? etc etc ..30 plus years of a divided cyprus has shown what TC believe to be right and true is not what GC believe to be right and true.
* The crescent moon and star, the red of the turkish flag, mosques, symbols that mean something to TC. To GC the orthodox cross, their churches etc again to similarities.

My point here is how the hell can a united community function when the cultures are so different. Wake up people partition is the ONLY SOLUTION.

Big Al, even though what you have listed above, are differences between GCs and TCs, they are not differences that should necessarily separate the population of a country, since they do co-exist in many other parts of the world, and yet countries remain united, peaceful, functional and prosperous. I am definitely certain that these differences are not the reason why you want to promote the idea of partition, but they only serve as a smoke screen to hide your true motives.

It is true that the two communities and their visions are incompatible, and their differences are unbridgeable, but not for the reasons you have stated. The reasons are different. The main difference is that while the GCs have a vision for a holistic, sovereign and independed Cyprus, the TCs do not have such a vision but rather see Cyprus only as a satellite of Turkey, and a servant to its strategic interests in the region. The second main difference is that the GCs consciously feel and regard the whole of Cyprus as their historical and ancestral motherland, while the TCs do not see it in this way. The majority of GCs feel they are Cypriots of Greek linguistic and cultural background, the majority of TCs feel they are Turks that happen to live in Cyprus.

To make you understand the difference between the two visions and feelings, I will refer you to the Story of King Solomon and the two women, which I quote here bellow.

Code: Select all

Two women came to King Solomon and stood before him. One woman (#1) said: "My Lord, this woman and I dwell in the same house, and I gave birth to a child while with her in the house. On the third day after I gave birth, she also gave birth. We live together; there is no outsider with us in the house; only the two of us were there. The son of this woman died during the night because she lay upon him. She arose during the night and took my son from my side while I was asleep, and lay him in her bosom, and her dead son she laid in my bosom. when I got up in the morning to nurse my son, behold, he was dead! But when I observed him (later on) in the morning, I realized that he was not my son to whom I had given birth!"

The other woman (#2) replied: "It is not so! My son is the live one and your son is the dead one!"

The first woman (#1) responded: "It is not so! Your son is the dead one and my son is the living one!"

They argued before King Solomon.

King Solomon said: "this woman (#2) claims 'My son is the live one and your son is the dead one, 'and this woman (#1) claims 'Your son is the dead one and my son is the living one!"'

King Solomon said, "Bring me a sword!" So they brought a sword before the King. The King said, "Cut the living child in two, and give half to one and half to the other"

The woman (#2) turned to the King, because her compassion was aroused for her son, and said: "Please my Lord, give her the living child and do not kill it!"

But the other woman (#1) said: "Neither mine nor yours shall he be. Cut!"

The King spoke up and said: "Give her (#2) the living child, and do not kill it, for she is his mother!"

[Big Al]

mmmmm more GC bullshit, tell me which GC would give up the island rather than see it split in two... your propoganda makes me laugh.
In relation to communities co-existing peacefully, we have seen time and time again that the peace has an expiry date and eventually when you have two different cultures in the one country eventually the majority repress to minority, conflict begins and the end result....permanent partition.. so lets saves ourselves alot of time and loss of life, permanently divide cyprus now rather than waiting for another war.

[Kifeas]

mmmmm more GC bullshit, tell me which GC would give up the island rather than see it split in two... your propoganda makes me laugh.

None! However, we (GCs) are willing and have vowed to make sacrifices and compromises way beyond any other majority has ever made to a minority in world history, just in order to save the life of the child; whereas in your case, you keep behaving like woman #1 who said to King Solomon: ""Neither mine nor yours shall he be. Cut!" For you, it is more important that your "motherland" Turkey's interests are best served -no matter how illegitimate they may be; than having Cyprus (i.e. the child) as a whole, alive, independed and sovereign!

[Bananiot]

The things the two communities have in common exceed by far their differences. I am totally shocked that Kifeas agrees with Big Al on this one. United communities may be something of the past now, mainly because of the wrongdoings of Greek Cypriots just after independence. Yet, given time, under an umbrella of BBF things may start to improve again and a new pride in being Cypriot can embrace both communities. For, we are Cypriot and this can become strong bondage for two politically equal communities.

[Sotos]

You should have thought of all that before coming to our island. Now you should be happy that we don't think like you think otherwise we would be asking for you to fuck off from our island because we are incompatible with you! So do you want to you want to live with us in a common country or do you prefer to leave from our island?

[Oracle]

You should have thought of all that before coming to our island. Now you should be happy that we don't think like you think otherwise we would be asking for you to fuck off from our island because we are incompatible with you! So do you want to you want to live with us in a common country or do you prefer to leave from our island?

No Sotos, they do not prefer to leave from our island ...... I think they prefer that the GCs leave from Cyprus:

... more their style, as exemplified for Hatay by GreekForumer:

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=9641

[BOF]

firstly lets look at some undeniable facts...
1. for a united cyprus to exist peacefully you need to have both communities gel and become one community.
2. a community is able to successfully function when there is a shared culture amongst its people.
3. the components of a culture are language, beliefs & values and symbols.

Lets know define the components of culture:
* Language is self explanatory
* beliefs: statements held to be true
* values: differentiates right feelings, thoughts and behavior from wrong feelings, thoughts and behavior
* symbols: anything that carries a particular meaning to a group.

Lets now see how compatible to TC and GC cultures are, as everyone agrees that to have a functioning community you must have a shared culture.
* Language, lets see, Turkish and Greek (with a funny accent), some shared words but the language dont sound the same, look the same, nor do they have similar origins. Unless your bilingual a TC cant understand a GC and vice a versa.
* Beliefs, poles apart here, one believes jesus was the son of god the other believes god cannot have a son. one believes Mohammed was gods last prophet the other definitely does not. Quran/Bible two very different beliefs.
* Values: the feelings/thoughts of TC again completely different to that of GC. should cyprus be united/divided? should TC have self or not? should Turkey remove its soldiers from northern cyprus? Should people that have migrated from Turkey be forced back? etc etc ..30 plus years of a divided cyprus has shown what TC believe to be right and true is not what GC believe to be right and true.
* The crescent moon and star, the red of the turkish flag, mosques, symbols that mean something to TC. To GC the orthodox cross, their churches etc again to similarities.

My point here is how the hell can a united community function when the cultures are so different. Wake up people partition is the ONLY SOLUTION.

Really very simple - look at the UK (stands for UNITED KINGDOM)
three different races, different languages,different cultural backgrounds,
different flags, different religions. It was a long and difficult process - no one said it was easy, but IT WORKS. and that doesnt take into account all the other races that have settled in the uk...so its just like Cyprus !
If you want something bad enough it WILL work...do the turkish cypriots want partition? will turkey allow them to make up their own mind?
A goodwill gesture on the part of Turkey would be to reduce the number of troops stationed on cyprus soil. that would be a great gesture of commitment. but friend i believe you and i know they are not about to commit to any loosening of their grip any time soon. with the noises coming from Turkey and the occupied turkish cypriot area even before the meeting i dont think turkey will ever leave cyprus to govern itself in my lifetime.

[Get Real!]

My point here is how the hell can a united community function when the cultures are so different. Wake up people partition is the ONLY SOLUTION.

Let me remind you of the days when you and your family were squatting to piss, way before a multicultural western country like the US, UK, or Australia, were kind enough to adopt you and your kind. Remember the place you learned the basic English you’ve demonstrated in this feeble thread?

Well, funnily enough you fitted in JUST FINE over there, despite having to live and get along with DOZENS of other races in your multicultural adopted home, but for some funny reason you seemingly get cocky when in Cyprus! I wonder why O’ brave Turkophile…

[GreekForumer]

No Sotos, they do not prefer to leave from our island ...... I think they prefer that the GCs leave from Cyprus:

... more their style, as exemplified for Hatay by GreekForumer:

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=9641

I love Robert Fisk.

Well you know what I mean.

He is simply the best Middle East journalist these days. He has no equal when it comes to historical knowledge. He mentioned Hatay in his column just the other day (Saturday, 15 March 2008)

George Bush – along with M. Sarkozy – has been berating Damascus for its lack of democracy and its human rights abuses and its supposed desire to gobble up Lebanon and "Palestine" and even Cyprus. But I always feel that Syria had a raw deal these past 90 years.

First came the one-armed General Henri Gouraud, who tore Lebanon off from Syria in 1920 and gave it to the pro-French Christians. Then Paris handed the Syrian coastal city of Alexandretta to the Turks in 1939 – sending survivors of the 1915 Armenian genocide into exile for a second time – in the hope that Turkey would join the Allies against Hitler. (The Turks obliged – in 1945!) Then in the Six Day War, Syria lost the Golan Heights – subsequently annexed by Israel. Far from being expansionist, Syria seems to get robbed of land every two decades.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/fisk/ ... 96359.html

And from last year,

US power games in the Middle East
4 April 2007

Aanjar was in fact given by the French to the Armenians after they were forced to leave the city of Alexandretta in 1939 - the French allowed a phoney referendum there to let the Turks take over in the vain hope that Ankara would fight Hitler - and Aanjar's citizens hold their title deeds. But receiving threats that they are going to be ethnically cleansed from their homes is - for Armenians - a terrible reminder of their genocide at the hands of the Turks in 1915. Lebanon likes its industrious, highly educated Armenians who are also represented in parliament. But that such hatred could now touch them is a distressing witness to the fragility of the Lebanese state.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/fisk/ ... 40856.html

They still have their Title deeds!
When are you going to say "Sorry" and give back their property, Big Al ?