Cyprus-Forum.com

[zan]

Erdogan letter to EU 26

TURKISH Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan has sent a letter to 26 EU leaders stating that the Annan plan is the basis for future negotiations for the solution of the Cyprus problem.
Cyprus did not get one.

Erdogan’s Greek counterpart Costas Karamanlis, responding to the development yesterday, said the Annan plan had been rejected by the overwhelming majority of Greek Cypriots and no longer constituted a basis for negotiations.

The Greek Prime Minister referred to a recent statement made by Erdogan during Karamanlis’ visit in Ankara, in which he said that the Annan plan was not a basis for discussion.

“I want to reiterate that Turkey’s EU course depends on certain criteria and preconditions which have been expressed with clarity in EU decisions,” he concluded.

Copyright © Cyprus Mail 2008

Erdogan, what a prat, he's causing trouble even before the talks start. He wants to be involved in the forthcoming negotiations but can't even show a little goodwill towards the ROC by sending it a copy. The talks are doomed before they start, but I hope I'm wrong.

In response to Christofias speech about not to think of a solution in UN terms......The first shots have been fired by both sides my friend.....

[Jerry]

Erdogan letter to EU 26

TURKISH Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan has sent a letter to 26 EU leaders stating that the Annan plan is the basis for future negotiations for the solution of the Cyprus problem.
Cyprus did not get one.

Erdogan’s Greek counterpart Costas Karamanlis, responding to the development yesterday, said the Annan plan had been rejected by the overwhelming majority of Greek Cypriots and no longer constituted a basis for negotiations.

The Greek Prime Minister referred to a recent statement made by Erdogan during Karamanlis’ visit in Ankara, in which he said that the Annan plan was not a basis for discussion.

“I want to reiterate that Turkey’s EU course depends on certain criteria and preconditions which have been expressed with clarity in EU decisions,” he concluded.

Copyright © Cyprus Mail 2008

Erdogan, what a prat, he's causing trouble even before the talks start. He wants to be involved in the forthcoming negotiations but can't even show a little goodwill towards the ROC by sending it a copy. The talks are doomed before they start, but I hope I'm wrong.

Turkey does not recognize the GC south, why should they send them anything? Do you guys really believe the UN will start form zero, and repest everything in the AP , call it the Greek plan we dont care but the basic content will be used by the UN experts as a starting point.

Looks like Erdogan isn't the only prat. Even if you don't recognise the ROC there was nothing to stop Turkey sending a copy of the letter to Christfias as the leader of the Greek Cypriots after all he is the man the Turks will be negotiating with.

[bill cobbett]

To my mind we already have a starting point and that is the articles of the EU accession treaty that RoC signed for on behalf of all Cy.

This is a binding contract with its basis in a number of human rights and governmental obligations and with the EU institutions to enforce these. So we don't have to go back to square zero.

In any event as a member posted in the past day or two ( I forget who) we must be mindful that any solution/agreement is compliant with Cy's EU obligations to its own citizens, to the citizens of other member states and to other EU states. Minor tinkerings of the Anon Plan A, with for instance, its restrictions on free movement, to produce Plan B is, imho, unlikely to meet these obligations.

So start at square 2 or 3 with the EU treaty is my very humble advise.

[Kikapu]

Erdogan letter to EU 26

TURKISH Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan has sent a letter to 26 EU leaders stating that the Annan plan is the basis for future negotiations for the solution of the Cyprus problem.
Cyprus did not get one.

Erdogan’s Greek counterpart Costas Karamanlis, responding to the development yesterday, said the Annan plan had been rejected by the overwhelming majority of Greek Cypriots and no longer constituted a basis for negotiations.

The Greek Prime Minister referred to a recent statement made by Erdogan during Karamanlis’ visit in Ankara, in which he said that the Annan plan was not a basis for discussion.

“I want to reiterate that Turkey’s EU course depends on certain criteria and preconditions which have been expressed with clarity in EU decisions,” he concluded.

Copyright © Cyprus Mail 2008

Erdogan, what a prat, he's causing trouble even before the talks start. He wants to be involved in the forthcoming negotiations but can't even show a little goodwill towards the ROC by sending it a copy. The talks are doomed before they start, but I hope I'm wrong.

Turkey does not recognize the GC south, why should they send them anything? Do you guys really believe the UN will start form zero, and repest everything in the AP , call it the Greek plan we dont care but the basic content will be used by the UN experts as a starting point.

"But a process of reconciliation and peace and reunification means at least two, so I hope we find the same spirit on the Turkish Cypriot side," Barroso said, adding that Turkey also had a "constructive role" to play in the process.

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/03/ ... Cyprus.php

Looks like Barroso is saying to the TC's, "you need to be active players in this peace talks and do not wait everything to be handed to you from the GC's".

What do you think it means VP.?? Do you also believe as I do, that the EU also wants to take important part in negotiations this time around and not mostly by the UN as the case was in 2004, since Cyprus is now a EU member.??

In my humble opinion, the UN does not need to start from the beginning to produce another "white elephant peace plan" with 9,000+ useless pages that lead to no nowhere. The whole AP was nothing more than a "maze" that would have stopped anything from ever happening in Cyprus. Everytime when someone thought they would have found the way out of all the crap in the 9,000 pages of the AP, they would have hit a "roadblock". Good riddance to that shitty plan.

For the next plan, "Keep It Simple Stupid" or just "KISS" for short.

[bill cobbett]

Absolutely K. Keep it simple, with, if I may say so, a proven formula, which is why I place my faith in a basis on the EU treaty for much of our solution/agreement. It's simple and it works in the other 20 odd member states.

[Nikitas]

TRNC is seeing its "initiative" eroding and panic has set in. Erdogan's move to send a letter to all EU countries ecept Cyprus prives the panic. He could have done the diplomatic thing and sent both Christofias and Talat the letter, but his monolithing attitude could not extend that far. One must wonder what message is understood by the leaders who received that letter and see that it was not sent to the two people most immediately concerned.

[zan]

Erdogan letter to EU 26

TURKISH Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan has sent a letter to 26 EU leaders stating that the Annan plan is the basis for future negotiations for the solution of the Cyprus problem.
Cyprus did not get one.

Erdogan’s Greek counterpart Costas Karamanlis, responding to the development yesterday, said the Annan plan had been rejected by the overwhelming majority of Greek Cypriots and no longer constituted a basis for negotiations.

The Greek Prime Minister referred to a recent statement made by Erdogan during Karamanlis’ visit in Ankara, in which he said that the Annan plan was not a basis for discussion.

“I want to reiterate that Turkey’s EU course depends on certain criteria and preconditions which have been expressed with clarity in EU decisions,” he concluded.

Copyright © Cyprus Mail 2008

Erdogan, what a prat, he's causing trouble even before the talks start. He wants to be involved in the forthcoming negotiations but can't even show a little goodwill towards the ROC by sending it a copy. The talks are doomed before they start, but I hope I'm wrong.

Turkey does not recognize the GC south, why should they send them anything? Do you guys really believe the UN will start form zero, and repest everything in the AP , call it the Greek plan we dont care but the basic content will be used by the UN experts as a starting point.

"But a process of reconciliation and peace and reunification means at least two, so I hope we find the same spirit on the Turkish Cypriot side," Barroso said, adding that Turkey also had a "constructive role" to play in the process.

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/03/ ... Cyprus.php

Looks like Barroso is saying to the TC's, "you need to be active players in this peace talks and do not wait everything to be handed to you from the GC's".

What do you think it means VP.?? Do you also believe as I do, that the EU also wants to take important part in negotiations this time around and not mostly by the UN as the case was in 2004, since Cyprus is now a EU member.??

In my humble opinion, the UN does not need to start from the beginning to produce another "white elephant peace plan" with 9,000+ useless pages that lead to no nowhere. The whole AP was nothing more than a "maze" that would have stopped anything from ever happening in Cyprus. Everytime when someone thought they would have found the way out of all the crap in the 9,000 pages of the AP, they would have hit a "roadblock". Good riddance to that shitty plan.

For the next plan, "Keep It Simple Stupid" or just "KISS" for short.

You see...This is axactly what wwe have been saying about the rubbish you guys write...You have been told that the 9000 pages are every laws that were put together by 300 Cypriot lawyers and not the UN but still you keep up with your propaganda the Annan Plan proper is 260 pages, or there abouts and does not need to start again but have the two sides go through what they like and don't like...

[Kikapu]

Ok Zan, so you had 260 pages of "proper AP" and 9000 pages of laws. Don't you think those 9,000 pages of laws would have played any part in creating a completely non functional country, because once you accept those laws, whether or not it was understood at the time, the country would have been stuck with them, and good luck in trying to change them later. You make it sound like the 9,000 pages of laws were nothing to be concerned about. Even the 260 pages was way too much, even if there were no 9,000 pages of laws. Laws are meant to be created by the citizens, not passed on to them by others.

[Viewpoint]

I can see an Anon B plan coming that rewards the RoT for the invasion and occupation. Trust the good people of Cy will reject that as well.

Lets see if they can or even if it gets to that point, the GCs are playing a dangerous game another rejection will seal recognition, so they will either bow out very soon or accept that a BBF is better than partition.

If Turkey and The Turkish Cypriots are SERIOUS about a solution they should stop trying to wrankle the Greek Cypriots with this Annan Plan business.
Sure, I think elements of the annan plan will be in any new solution - the thing is christofias will have to sell it as something different in order to gain support. It's almost as if the TCs and Turks are trying to antagonise him from the outset.

My view: Turkey has met with Talat and said...

1. The TCs voted yes to the annan plan
2. The GCs voted no and realised they made amistake.
3. The GCs voted in christofias
4. The solution is either recognition of TRNC or what was under the annan plan, with some very minor changes, these will include some in Turkeys favour.
5. No other solution is on the table.
6. We will ensure this is put into a referendum and use the same formula and previously
7. Our number one achievement will be the GC refusal of the plan and the recognition of TRNC. We are close now, only a matter of years.
8. In summary the voting of christofias is a recognition that the GCsmade a mistake in not saying yes to the annan plan and this is their last opportunity to accept it - we must ensure that no solution is reached which weakens *Turkey's* position.

All the TCs side is saying that we have a foudation to build on call the foundation what you wish but saying it does not stem from the old AP is being pig headed for the sake of it, sell it how you like but the bottom line is that the UN cannot scrap the AP and start from zero. What we have to concentrate on is getting elements which made with GCs say No without losing the TCs yes, thats the trick and what we shoudl concentrate on. I also agree with our President Talat that there should be a timetable otherwise negotiations will be going on for many more years without any outcome. The AP process at least made both sides realize they had to negotiate as the dead line was expiring. The time scale can be as long as we want 1 year 2 years etc but there has to a date after which both sides will realize the outcome and the penalities for not using the process to reach an agreement.

let's start from where we are (july 8th) and move to annan plan as we progress...in terms of having a timetable - it didn't work out well last time, the whole 'let the meddlers fill in the gaps bit'....so while i agree a deadline focuses minds it should also be careful to not repeat history.

Addmitidly the time frames were very strict during AP due to the run up to the GC entry into the EU, we can arrange a timefrmae which each side should commit to this will help everyone focus on the job ahead and start to negotiate without wasting time as they know what the end result will be if they choose to yet again adopt delay tactics. The side more likely to do this will object to timetables from the outset.

[Viewpoint]

To my mind we already have a starting point and that is the articles of the EU accession treaty that RoC signed for on behalf of all Cy.

This is a binding contract with its basis in a number of human rights and governmental obligations and with the EU institutions to enforce these. So we don't have to go back to square zero.

In any event as a member posted in the past day or two ( I forget who) we must be mindful that any solution/agreement is compliant with Cy's EU obligations to its own citizens, to the citizens of other member states and to other EU states. Minor tinkerings of the Anon Plan A, with for instance, its restrictions on free movement, to produce Plan B is, imho, unlikely to meet these obligations.

So start at square 2 or 3 with the EU treaty is my very humble advise.

Do those documents contain TC communities signature? we didnt agree to them so they are not binding on our behalf.