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Illegitimate, Illegal and "Isolated" ...

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby zan » Sat Mar 15, 2008 3:36 pm

miltiades wrote:
zan wrote:
miltiades wrote:
zan wrote:
miltiades wrote:Rubbish , rubbish and more rubbish , incidentally judging fro your syntactical and grammatical utterances may I kindly request the identity of your chosen alcoholic beverage !!
Your are immersed in your own dark world , dont blame the mirror just smash it it so you dont have to look at your self .
Good night from the ASSASIN !!! You plonker !!

"""""Driven out of Cyprus by EOKA and Makarios. Kept out by TPap."""

Who gave this line boy !!


Keep going old man....Even your friends will see that you have no intention of finding the truth.....You are exposed for what you are and you did it yourself.......Nice one......You even issue threats and want my picture......


“Who Can Forget Or Forgive That The Loathsome Coupists Murdered Hundreds Of Cypriot Democrats, Some Of Whom They Buried Alive? Who Can Forget That They Were Planning To Murder About Ten Thousand, Mainly Leftists, In Order To Consolidate The Foreign-Based Fascist Regime they imposed?”
(PAPAIOANNOU, Ezekias (Secretary-General of AKEL) (Haravghi, (Nicosia) 13.01.1985)

You disgust me with your stupidity .I HAVE ISSUED THREATS AGAINST YOU !!!!
In the words of a great Englishman , Enoch Powel , I will not dissacociate my self from something with with which I have never been associated with.
My friend can see that I stand exactly where I did years ago and here is a short synopsis:
The island of Cyprus belongs to the Cypriot people , G/Cs , T/Cs Armenian Maronite British and all other Cypriots . No one has a right to hand a part ofour island to a foreign nation.
There are NO Majorities or minorities in Cyprus all Cypriots are equal under the law.
There is ONLY ONE legal nation in Cyprus and that is the one that the ENTIRE World recognises.
I will challenge all those whose only agenda is to continue spreading propaganda that our people can not live together in order to promote the permanent division of our island and our people, these are the partititionist the extremists the hate mongers such as you in this instance.
I have challenge many on this forum for their extreme and dangerous views that are formulated not on reality but on an agenda given to them by their respective propaganda masters.

Of all propagandists you are perhaps the most dangerous in that by hiding behind your cloak of secrecy you continue to formulate views and opinions detrimental to the interests of the T/C people and all Cypriot people.You clutch at straws to propagate your absurd supposition that the invasion of 1974 was one of liberation and a peace mission , you mentioned the figure of 40 thousand refugees returning back to "near the border" areas , what is the relative importance of this , is it to state that contrary to the invasion there were NO refugees , the occupied areas had NO G/Cs before the invasion !!
I have also stated that my ambition to see a T/C as the President of a united Cyprus is a noble one , in that such an event would herald the beginning of a new political and social era for Cyprus.
You know how much I detest the promotion of foreign flags and anthems , as well as the nonsense that our motherlands are the two nations who are responsible for the indoctrination and mental rape of our people.
Mr Zomby , your views and general outlook are formulated based on propaganda and hatred , where mine are based on realities , necessities and free from propaganda. I interpret situations based on the rules used by the International community , the UN , EU etc. None use inverted Commas in mentioning the ROC but all do in mentioning the TRNC
if any of my friends find my remarks offensive , they will also find them truth to my position as it always was.
Finaly Mr Plonker , let me rimind you of your favourite words of "wisdom"
Makarios , EOKA, TPAP , Drunk , old !!!!


And you disgust me with your false sympathies and your inability to understand what I am saying the the truth.......


The numbers are important because it shows the source from which you people get your information from. I am trying to broaden your horizons and help you see he real truth and not your imagined double glazing salesman crap about what Cyprus is. My hate of your drinking is that it stops you from forming a proper opinion of anything...I have a brother who is a drunk like you and I can see the similarities in your behavior....You do not have a clear head even when sober....

I give you quotes with names and some with Greek names and you chose to ignore the facts....I give you the evidence that my country is under siege by the "RoC" and is not the country under which I was born and I will never accept the illegal regime that took my country and my rights away by the sword and you ignore me. This makes you the propagandist and the one who is most dangerous to Cyprus because you anger each and every TC with your ignorance and apathy. An ignorance that should not be because I have done the leg work for you and brought you all you need to know. Still you try to give us some bullshit about who recognises who and we should surrender to that because of mistakes in the past.....You have been told before where to stick your "RoC" and perhaps you have and that is what is making you so grumpy because of the discomfort. When you come round to giving me my REAL country back and my rights then I will see you as a CYpriot and not another Greek trying to convince me to give up what my fathers died for.

You insulent little minion of a man , what does your alchoholic brother have to do with the price of eggs!!

No Sir , I will not anger T/Cs apart from the likes of you.I have NEVER uttered one word against the T/Cs I have challenged those who share your views and regard his compatriots as ! thieves !! AND MURDERERS. !!
Give it a brake man your boring me to tears I think I need a drink !!


You find your solace in your bottle old man.....The image of yourself is dropping a little so the false bravado is needed from the bottom of a glass...Go...Enjoy..... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

If you are not interested in the truth then that is the best way to go anyway....Drown your sorrows.... :roll:
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Re: Illegitimate, Illegal and "Isolated" ...

Postby Piratis » Sat Mar 15, 2008 7:12 pm

zan wrote:
Oracle wrote:The Crime:

The Illegitimate “TRNC” was born of the rape of Cyprus by Turkey’s Invasion (1974).

Turkey unilaterally invaded Cyprus whilst peaceful means to end the troubles were being sought by neutral agents. It failed to assist those already fighting to restore the legitimate government and instead massacred 7,000 GCs. To fulfil its pre-meditated rape and murder, it ethnically cleansed nearly 200,000 GCs from their homes and has since failed to account for over 1500 missing persons.

The Judgement:

Declared Illegal by countless UN resolutions (353 etc) condemning the invasion and declaring it illegal. Not recognised by any outside country.

The Punishment:

Isolation.... surprisingly the punishment is self imposed (or more accurately, by Turkey) Turkish Cypriot complaints about "isolation" fail to realise economic benefit because it is not the true objective of their leadership. Propagandist claims about "isolation" serve only to justify their current policy of politically upgrading the illegal regime in occupied Cyprus.

Proposed rehabilitation:

Instigate weaning the TCs from Turkey’s apron strings. They have to understand Turkey is only abusing them for her own ends. A bright future awaits the TCs if they abandon the last vestiges of their Mongolian links, just as we GCs have of our Greek links ... And together hand in hand embrace the future with our new partners in the EU.


What say you .... :D


Charge against Oracle

Pulling numbers out of the Greek propaganda books.......40,000 of the 200,000 refugees returned to their homes near the border almost immediately after 1974.

3,000 of the 7,000 dead ( which should read 6,000 at most) were killed by the coupist Greeks...

The number of missing.....Total fabrication by the likes of Frau Oracle.
(a) Permanent Mission of Greece to the United Nations: ( www.greeceun.org )

Quote:
"Moreover, thousands of people, including civilians, were killed or ill-treated by the Turkish invaders."


(b) The embassy of the illegal GC regime under "RoC" to the United States ( http://www.cyprusembassy.net )

Quote:
"The human cost was immense. Thousands of Greek Cypriots were killed or maimed as a result of the actions of the invading Turkish army."


These people have lied and their lies have been exposed time and time again. The true figures are far from what is being reflected. Minority Rights Group International ( www.minorityrights.org ), who gave a biased interpretation of the Cyprus conflict in the favour of the GCs even mentions:

Quote:
"An estimated 3,000 Greek Cypriots and 500 Turkish Cypriots had been killed within a month."


Even in a figure of 3000, the time of deaths during the coup is included. Here are just a few other credible journals that have reported on the number of deaths during the coup:

Die Zeit, 30 August 1974
Quote:
"In the four days that followed the coup, an estimated 2000 people, known to be ardent supporters of Makarios were killed. Their names were later added to those killed during the subsequent Turkish invasion."


Combat, Belgium, 25 July 1974
Quote:
"It has been confirmed that during the days following the coup in Nicosia at least 2000 of Makarios`s supporters have either been killed in the fighting or executed"


The number of dead and missing as a consequence of the coup have been reflected directly on to the Turkish Peace Operation and multiplied by some imaginary factors to manipulate and distort realities. Here are undisputable resources pointing to this along with a relevant confession by the GC leader:

Ambassador Nelson Ledsky sworn testimony before the US Senate Foreign Relations Committee, 17 April 1991
Quote:
"Most of the missing persons disappeared in the first days of July 1974, before the Turkish intervention on the 20th. Many killed on the Greek side were killed by Greek Cypriots in fighting between supporters of Makarios and Sampson."


GC President Glafkos Clerides, Cyprus Mail, 27 October 1995
Quote:
" Following a study of 487 of the 1,619 cases of missing Greek Cypriots by the Attorney-General's office, 96 people were found to have died in action."


Cyprus Mail, 3 March 1996
Quote:
"(Greek) Cypriot governments have found it convenient to conceal the scale of atrocities during the 15th July coup in an attempt to downplay its contribution to the tragedy of the summer of 1974 and instead blame the Turkish invasion for all casualties. There can be no justification for any government that failed to investigate this sensitive humanitarian issue. The shocking admission by the Clerides government that there are people buried in Nicosia cemetery who are still included in the list of the "missing" is the last episode of a human drama which has been turned into a propaganda tool."


What say you and what punishment for the fibber of the year????


Here we go again with Zan trying to tell us that Turks are so nice because they didn't ethnically cleanse 200.000 Cypriots but "only" 160.000 :roll:

I can imagine if Hitler had not been killed during the war that in his defense at the court would say something similar to what zan said: "Those that accuse me are lairs! I didn't kill 6 million Jews, I only killed 5 million. I am innocent!". Then again Hitler might not have been so stupid to make such ridiculous claims for his defense.

What is a fact is that the Turks have ethnically cleansed 100s of thousands of native Cypriots from the north part of Cyprus, replaced them with Turkish settlers, and declared some pseudo state on land that belongs by 82% to Greek Cypriots.

What the exact number is of little importance. Zan selected some newspaper articles to present a slightly lower number, but there are articles that show much higher ones. Here is what a report from the Council of Europe says:


14. As an immediate result of the hostilities leading to the partition of the island, in 1974, in addition to a large number of people who were killed and 1 619 missing persons the number of displaced persons amounted to approximately 210 000 people. Out of this figure, the number of Greek Cypriot refugees displaced immediately after the invasion accounted for 201 000 (which constituted one third of the whole population of Cyprus), and the number of Turkish Cypriots was 8 000.

15. At that time about 13 000 Greek Cypriots were still living in the occupied area, and approximately 35–37 000 Turkish Cypriots were living in the Government controlled area.

16. Many of the people whose places of residence were in dangerous areas within the control of the Government returned to their homes by 1977 while at the same time enclaved persons were forced to move to the southern part resulting in a total of 167 000 Greek Cypriot refugees.

17. On the other hand expulsions of Greek Cypriots from the occupied area have continued following discrimination, harassment and intimidation. By 1989, the number of Greek Cypriot refugees staying in the Government controlled area increased to 193 000.
http://assembly.coe.int/Documents/Worki ... OC9799.htm


Similar is the case with the amount of people the Turks murdered during the invasion. Even the lower figures talk about many 1000s of Cypriots killed by the Turkish army within days. That is a kind of massacre Cyprus had not witnessed since the times of the Ottoman rule (where the Turks on several occasions murdered Cypriots by the 1000s).

Zan then tells us that many Greek Cypriots where also killed during the coup. Yes Zan, many Greek Cypriots where killed during the coup, and no Turkish Cypriot did. That is because while Greek Cypriots where fighting against the coupists and while the president of Cyprus was at the UN contemning the coup, the Turkish Cypriots where instead collaborating with Turkey in order to use this weak moment for Cyprus to put into action the plan they had since the 50s to partition Cyprus.

The lie of the century is the one made by the Turkish propaganda that they supposedly invaded Cyprus to save the Turkish Cypriots who were murdered. The truth is, that the inter-communal conflict which TCs started back in 1957 and where both sides lost a few 100s of people, was over by 1968 and had noting to do with the Turkish invasion of 1974.

In 1974 there was a coup in Cyprus (like the many that happened in Turkey), and Cypriots where fighting against it. Turkey and TCs found that as an excuse to put into action their partition plan, which involved the ethnic cleansing of the majority of Cypriots from the north part of Cyprus, with the aim to artificially create some "Turkish Republic" on land stolen from Cypriots.

Their lame excuses where not accepted even by their closest allies, and this is why the occupation of Cyprus by Turkey, as well as the illegal pseudo state they declared on our land are illegal.
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Postby zan » Sat Mar 15, 2008 7:59 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Waffle baby waffle......


Now...

I thank you for making my point quite clearly...You speak from propaganda pages while I do research and bring you up to date numbers. There is no mention of the 40,000 that returned very soon after the intervetion by Turkey because you have not bothered to do your homework and find out the truth...... But they very certainly did return. The missing numbers were made up to look worse than they were by adding those killed in action as confessed to by GCs. As I said...One is to many but it goes to show that you guys are still being fed rubbish and it makes me wonder what else you haven't read...... :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
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Re: Illegitimate, Illegal and "Isolated" ...

Postby Oracle » Sat Mar 15, 2008 8:36 pm

zan wrote:Charge against Oracle

Pulling numbers out of the Greek propaganda books.......40,000 of the 200,000 refugees returned to their homes near the border almost immediately after 1974.

3,000 of the 7,000 dead ( which should read 6,000 at most) were killed by the coupist Greeks...

The number of missing.....Total fabrication by the likes of Frau Oracle.

What say you and what punishment for the fibber of the year????


This is what say I (plus help from a fellow GC who will be acknowledged, as appropriate later).

Well where are your references or sources, Zan?

But you clearly agree with me on the 200,000 as the acceptable figure after the invasion.

The figure at the time from “TIME” magazine:
the right of the 180,000 Greek Cypriot refugees to return to their homes in Turkish-occupied parts of the island


and further:

70% of the economic potential of Cyprus came under military occupation.


The readjustments that came later were many.

For example there were about 12,000 enclaved GCs remaining in the occupied villages in the north by the end of 1974 living under conditions of oppression, harassment and deprivation. Less than 500 Greek Cypriots and 173 Maronites remain (June 1998 figures).

So, you agree 200,000 was the correct figure AT ONE POINT IN TIME.

Plus or minus 40,000 does not change the ORDER OF MAGNITUDE.

If we used 1 SIGNIFICANT FIGURE, then do we round up or down the number of refugees. 200,000 or 100,000 refugees ? Which number would you choose Zan ? Is the number you chose a "lie" ? In any case we can the figure is 25% wrong! Does choosing one number or the other change the narrative significantly ?

As Piratis has also covered for you, 6,000,000 Jews perished at the hands of the Nazis. Do you really think it was really 6,000,000 Jews, Zan ? Do you think they rounded it up or down ? Does 6,000,000 reflect the ORDER OF MAGNITUDE of their annihilation ?

Whether 160,000 or 200,000 , does it really matter that much ? Isn't what matters is that ALL GCs were ethnically cleansed from Turkish held territory ? If that's not true, then there are enclaved Greeks ? Are they an equal partner with VETO in the new state ? These are the important questions.

Now, let's give an example of rubbery figures which involve a difference in the ORDER OF MAGNITUDE. see thread
http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.p ... ing#213339

According to Turkish sources, the number of dead is 800 and the number of missing is 500. Total 1300.

The Journalist who said 7,000 TCs were killed is not 25% wrong but 540% wrong!
The sign that reads 12,000 TCs killed is not 25% wrong but 920% wrong!

7000 to 12000! That's equivalent to what Turks did to the Armenians in the Hamidian massacres of 1894-1896!

We have seen this habit of Turks focusing on numbers before. Turks argue that the number of Armenian children that died like drought stricken cattle does not reflect the truth. It wasn't 500,000 Armenian children that died horrific, disgusting, ghastly deaths in the deserts. It was only 200,000. But you know what is more evil than this heinous mass murder of these children ? Lying about the numbers! Yes, those damn Armenians lying about the numbers!
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Postby miltiades » Sat Mar 15, 2008 9:10 pm

Viewpoint wrote:Miltiates you are not being truthful you have cursed and condemned TCs in past posts, albeit when angered but saying you have never done this make you look stupid and a liar.

VP , point me to ne post where I uttered a single word or phrase againts the T/Cs .I challenged the fanatics just as I have challenged the G/C extremists .Do please tell where and in which post.
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Postby Oracle » Sat Mar 15, 2008 9:36 pm

The New York Times
"Since then the Turkish side has been pursuing total separation of the communities. Last year all ethnic Turks were allowed to go north in exchange for promises that the ethnic Greeks in the Turkish area would be given free movement, better schools and more medical care. In addition, the Turkish side promised to allow the United Nations to set up posts in the north and provide the Greeks with moral and material support.

The Turkish side, keeping few of its promises, persisted in putiing pressure on the remaining ethnic Greeks to leave. As a result a steady trickle of departures has become a flood. Abouy 30 Greeks go south every day".

Steven V. Roberts, "The New York Times", 1.11.1976.

The Times
"Further expulsions belie Turkish claims of a voluntary exodus"
"Then we had a visit from two Turkish Cypriots on November 8. The were originally from Kokkina (a Turkish Cypriot village still under control of the Cypriot Government) and they said we had 15 days to leave. They said they had been told that they could have our house and that the authorities had send them roud to us.

"I did not believe this was true and said:'You cannot tell us to leave. What authority have you got?' So the taller man held up a piece of paper with a Turkish stamp on it, which gave his name as Hasun Mehmet and listed our house as 'F55'. In Yaloussa, the village was so small that we never had street numbers but this was the Turkish designation for our home. I told the men to leave and they did.

"But next day a Turkish girl who lived two houses away and who was a friend of mine came to our home. She said that Turks were going to burn my husbands' lorry unless we agreed to leave immediately.

"On the same day, Mr. Mehmet came back. He said he could bring some boxes for us if we nedded extra packing cases when we moved. Then he asked my husband to show him how the water-heater worked in our bathroom".

Robert Fisk, "The Times" 9.12.1976.

"Identical reports appear throughout the documents which also refer to acts of violence against Greek Cypriots. On October 9 this year, summary 4040, again dealt with Sector Six and stated: 'During night time 3/10 to 4/1076 five Tk Cyp (Turkish Cypriot) men entered the house of Gk Cyp Lysandros Foka in the vilaage of Ayias Trias, beat him up, robbed money in the value of 581 Cyprus pounds (#830) and raped his 14-years-old daughter. Another Tk Cyp was guarding outside while te five committed te crimes. The Tk Cyps were carrying a shotgun and fired at least one shot in the air".

"The Times", 13.2.1976.

The Guardian
"Death of a village of peace"
" the old countryman's eyes were heavy with tears he had not yet shed. What did he think would happen to Bellapais when the last of its people had left? His previously firm voice broke at the thought and the tears began to flow. 'Erimia', he said, 'Desolation'.

Bellapais has been dying by degrees since the beginning of the year when the Turks began movong out in small groups the 700 inhabidants of this hauntingly beautiful village, made world famous by Lawrence Durrell's 1955 bestseller Bitter Lemons.

There are now fewer than 20 people left in the village and they will all be gone by the weekend".

John Bierman, "The Guardian", 5.7.1976.

The Economist
"Cyprus-A Bitter Lemon Squeezed Dry"
"Bellapais, the Greek Cypriot village made famous by Lawrence Durrell's "Bitter Lemons", is no longer Greek: two weeks ago its last seven Greek inhabidants gave up struggle against the Turkish squeeze. With their departure the number of Greek Cypriots in the entire Kyrenia District of northern Cyprus is now fewer than 30. Because of this, the Turkish authorities say that the United Nations force in Cyprus no longer needs a post in that area".

"The Economist" 4.9.1976.
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Postby bill cobbett » Sat Mar 15, 2008 9:46 pm

Very moving post O.
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Postby miltiades » Sat Mar 15, 2008 9:48 pm

Taken from the BBC News Archive covering the Cyprus invasion.
Any one can see that both of our communities suffered and many lost their lives .
1974: Cyprus - 'a tragedy all round'
The coup on Cyprus in July 1974 which overthrew Archbishop Makarios immediately sparked tensions on the island.
Turkish-Cypriots feared the new Greek-backed leader, Nicos Sampson, would seek unification with Greece against their wishes. When talks between the two sides broke down, Turkey invaded northern Cyprus.

The island was split into two and the continued failure to reach a settlement in the following months polarised the island's population: Greek-Cypriots fled to the south and the Turkish community to the north.

Cyprus is still a divided island.

Your accounts of the conflict:

The comments below reflect the balance of opinion received.


Serdar Boztas, a Turkish Cypriot now living in Australia was 13 at the time of the Turkish invasion. He was living to the north west of the capital, Nicosia.

I remember seeing the paratroopers land.

That first night the Greek tanks came within 100 metres of our village, Geunyeli, but did not enter the village.


I was injured by a shrapnel from a mortar shell fired from the Greek positions, which landed right on top of our car and destroyed it


Serdar Boztas, Australia


There was lots of shelling of the village and I was injured by a shrapnel from a mortar shell fired from the Greek positions, which landed right on top of our car and destroyed it.

It was parked in the yard and I was running back to the underground shelter after having come home for a drink of water.

Some of my family became refugees in the British sovereign bases and could not leave for the liberated areas for up to two years.

In the end, Makarios and Denktash signed a population exchange agreement and the exchange happened.

It was a liberation for us Turkish Cypriots, and Cyprus has been in peace, a peace enforced by the strength of the Turkish army, a legal guarantor of Cyprus.

The Greek Cypriots have recently shown they do not want a settlement by rejecting a UN-sponsored unification plan on a bi-zonal basis.


Amanda Lee was on holiday in northern Cyprus at the time of the invasion.

I was in Kyrenia at the time of the invasion. I'd been out there for a month, on holiday and was out at the Six Mile Beach when the news had come a few days before of the deposition of Makarios and the attempted coup by the Greek Cypriots.

I had a long walk back to town that first day, as all the public transport stopped.

There was fighting round our hotel that first evening, as those involved in the attempted coup fought the other Cypriots.

Very noisy it was.


The friends in whose hotel I had been staying, being Greek Cypriots, lost everything


Amanda Lee, UK


A couple of days later, as the news wasn't getting any better and I had to get back to Akrotiri for my flight home (I was in the RAF at the time), I persuaded some Cypriot friends to smuggle me into Nicosia and then down across the central plain to Akrotiri.

Rather nerve-wracking although I was glad I'd got out just before the Turkish troops arrived in Kyrenia because those holiday makers left in the town were stuck for some time and were eventually taken off by RN ships.

The friends in whose hotel I had been staying, being Greek Cypriots, lost everything - and they'd only opened that summer.

The situation in Kyrenia had always seemed less fraught than in some other areas, with less space between the Turkish and Greek communities.

A tragedy all round.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Andrew Davis from Hong Kong writes on behalf of his Turkish Cypriot wife, Rebia, who was four at the time of the coup.
My wife's family lived in the Turkish quarter of Limassol.

She clearly remembers during the coup the Greek Cypriots shelling the Turkish enclave which scared her tremendously.

She vividly remembers Greek Cypriot soldiers came to her house and prepared to shoot her father on the spot. But he was saved at the last second by a Greek Cypriot friend.

The man hid her family in his house for nearly a week at which point her family posed as Greek Cypriots (they speak Greek) and made their way through border checkpoints to the safety of the North which, by this point in time, had been occupied by Turkish soldiers.

My wife clearly remembers being extremely frightened by the Greek soldiers as her parents negotiated the checkpoints.

Other members of her family, along with other Turkish residents, were rounded up into a public square.

An uncle was dragged from his hospital bed and made to lie for hours in the hot July sun.

The men were then taken to a football stadium and the women were let go when it became clear the stadium wasn¿t big enough to hold them all.

My wife's aunties then escaped to the North by vehicle or by foot and my wife's uncles were eventually bussed North a week or two later.

My wife's family eventually settled into a Greek Cypriot house in the North which had been totally stripped bare as it had been on the front line of the fighting.

From there they have started their lives again and, due to the economic embargo, have never been able to rebuild the wealth and success they had to leave behind in Limassol.

Nevertheless, they have felt safe and secure which is more important.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Christopher Christofi was eight years old when the conflict came to his village
I was from a village called Davlos near Kantara Castle which had a radio and television mast located on the mountain.

I recall Turkish jets bombing the mountain, after which they flew past the burning forests and then down to the village. There they strafed us in the fields where we had gone for shelter.


I saw the National Guard truck drive by containing the covered bodies of the same Guardsmen who had been dining the night before


Christopher Christofi, UK


I recall my father ordering me to dash across a hot and dusty wheat field to get away from the strafing, whilst he ran holding my newborn baby sister, and I remember a final jump down a crevice of five or so feet - an Olympian task it appeared to me.

After the shadow of the jets disappeared we popped our head over the edge of the crevice. Soon after a Turkish jet went spinning into a nearby mountain, its wing missing from the hit scored by the anti-aircraft guns on Kantara.

The explosion was seen before it was heard and each repeat prompted a cheer from the harassed villagers who had all tuned their radios in to hear the news and listen to the incessant martial music.

That evening a table was made at the local taverna for the National Guard troops who descended the windy roads from the mountain in their battered truck for some respite. Although weary, they all seemed very young - a mixture of shyness and dash.

That evening the mountain had a red glow from the raging forest fires. My father went to Kantara to help the National Guardsmen.

The next day he brought some "trophies" - bits of a Turkish jet shot down nearby. I held on to these as I saw the National Guard truck drive by containing the covered bodies of the same Guardsmen who had been dining the night before.

There is only one fair solution for Cyprus and its a simple one which everyone apart from the politicians seem to know about, namely that everyone goes home and lives in peace, whether its Turks back to their old properties in the South or Greeks going back to theirs in the North.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Antonis Antoniou was only five years old during the invasion, but vividly remembers the fear he felt
I remember the sound of the airplanes and bombs. The fear, the pain and cries of women and children running to save their life.


We had a family, a life a house and one morning we woke up hungry and scared in some olive tree field


Antonis Antoniou, VA USA


I remember people crying over their relatives' graves. My family was forced out of their land just because they were Greek-Cypriots. I spent my early years in tents, old houses and refugee camps. We had no food and we had to stand in line for UN aid.

I grew up in fear that the Turkish army would proceed further and kill more people. I also remember very well the arrogant and the discriminative policies of the British soldiers, the "civilized" force, when we were hungry and asking for help.

We had a family, a life a house and one morning we woke up hungry and scared in some olive tree field. All that because we had the bad-luck to be born Greek-Cypriots.

Thirty years later I realise the pity. War is evil and no one wins. Sadly enough, war is decided by "educated" people like diplomats and politicians. They sit at their fancy UN headquarters with their fancy "elite" style making war decisions for poor innocent people. I only wish that their children will never experience war in their life.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Panos Hadjinicolaou's father was murdered by Turkish Cypriots in August 1974
I was six years old. We were on holidays in our family house in Yialousa, a coastal Greek Cypriot village in Karpasia, with a population of 2500.

The Turkish army, despite the agreed ceasefire, went on to the second phase of the invasion in early August. Turkish soldiers, together with Turkish Cypriots, walked into the village cafe and arrested nine Greek-Cypriot civilians - one of them was my father.


I want to able to live now in a United Cyprus


Panos Hadjinicolaou, UK


Rumours say they were executed in a nearby village as a revenge to previous Greek-Cypriot violence in the area.

Turkey's response to the Greek intervention in Cyprus was disproportionate in force and brutality. An "emergency intervention" ended up a permanent land grab. Innocent people paid with their lives for the Greek nationalistic stupidity, the Turkish aggressiveness and the Anglo-American interests.

I don't want any more revenge. I want to find my father's remains and remember him properly. But, more than that, I want go back to my village, which is currently being bulldozed illegally by the Turks for a tourist "development", and re-connect with my memories and the other half of myself left in the north.

Thirty years of Greek-Cypriot suffering away from their land and Turkish-Cypriot suffering of isolation are enough. I want to able to live now in a United Cyprus and prosper with my Turkish Cypriot brothers in the EU, together with Greece and Turkey.



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Andreas Charalambous was forced out of his village after the invasion
I was a young boy living happily with my family in a small village in Karpasia at the time. When the invasion occurred people panicked. There was very little fighting in our region and Turkish troops along with local Turkish Cypriot entered our village three weeks later.

They proceeded to round up all the men folk and beat them publicly in the village square before taking them to concentration camps in Turkey. Local Turkish Cypriots who a few days before were out neighbours joined in.

I remember one guy leading the mainland troops into the village and dragging people from their houses. He still lives happily in Ayios Andronikos village in Cyprus.

We were forced out one year later after being subjected to the worst humiliation and abuse the Turkish army had to offer. Whatever they say, it was no peace operation - the Turkish invasion was a brutal barbaric act and Turks should wake up and treat it for what it is, instead of celebrating genocide against the Greek Cypriots of northern Cyprus.

If the Germans can be mature to reflect on the Holocaust why can't the Turks do the same?



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

James was a child during the invasion whose family was attacked by Turkish troops
I was a 12 year old living in Cyprus during this dreadful time. I was in a small village when the Turkish Soldiers came in and started being really nasty to all the villagers.

One so-called soldier came into our house. He hit my 75-year-old grandfather, ransacked our little house, shot our dog and hit me on the way out. I remember his face, his nasty grin. I hope this guy sleeps well at night - there is a lot more I can say about him and his colleagues. May god forgive them because I know I cannot.



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Kelvin Nichols was a 16-year-old living in Famagusta when the Turkish forces invaded
My parents were attached to the armed forces. We lived in flats overlooking Famagusta beach and we had a wonderful lifestyle.


I thought it was the RAF on training - until they started strafing the beach


Kelvin Nichols, UK


Early morning on 20 July - about 0600 - I was on the roof of the flats and I saw jets come screaming in towards the city from the sea. At first I thought it was the RAF on training, until they started strafing the beach. Apparently they were shooting at Greek forces who were approaching the Turkish community who lived in the old part of town.

The following few days were fantastic ones for an impressionable young boy of 16. There followed a period of confusion were we were not allowed to go to school, a journey of 12 miles.

We spent our days swimming as normal, but we weren't swimming and fishing for fish but for shrapnel and bullets. I still have a large shell somewhere in my parent's house. Eventually we were evacuated to Dhekalia where we were billeted with an army family for a week, then flown out by Hercules plane to Oxfordshire via Episkopi.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tony Hart is a former British Army soldier who toured in Cyprus
I was serving in the army in Ulster, looking forward to a six-month UN tour of duty in Cyprus in 1975. My main concern was if my six-month (perceived) holiday was going to turn into Northern Ireland but with sunshine.

The tour went ahead as planned and I remember escorting an entire Turkish village to the border with the Turkish-controlled North. They just packed their bags, climbed on the coaches and never looked back.

I feel Cyprus will be united in the future, but how long it will take to overcome the bitterness and distrust I just don't know.


Tony Hart: Escorted an entire Turkish village to the border



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nick Bennett was on holiday in Istanbul during the invasion
Travelling to the east of Turkey by boat we were joined, half-way into the journey, by a contingent of enlisted Turkish soldiers.

During the night, and fuelled by too much to drink, some of them toured the boat asking passengers their nationality. Anyone silly enough to own-up to being from any nation that opposed the Turkish invasion of Cyprus (and Britain was amongst these), was subjected to verbal, and in a couple of cases, physical abuse.

When it came to my turn to answer their question I said I was Japanese. Despite being 6ft 4in and very obviously white Caucasian, my answer satisfied the recruits who passed on to their next passenger - a memorable holiday.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Other comments

It was very interesting reading the experiences other people had during the Turkish invasion in 1974.

I was in the RN at the time and having a good time in Malta and totally unaware of what was to come untill we were recalled to our ship HMS Andromeda and sent to Kyrenia.

We were the first RN ship to arrive and we were to assist in the evacuation of inocent people from the Island.

Although we witnessed and heared of some horrific things I often think of the people we helped and what became of the people we had to leave behind.
Mike Marriott, UK



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On 20th July 1974, I was in Nicosia and saw some heroic fighting between the small and lightly armed Turkish Army contingent based there since 1960 and the Greek Army who tried to break through with their tanks towards the mountains.

Two days earlier on 18th July 1974, I travelled from Nicosia to Lapithos along northern coastline to bring back the security guard we had left alone at the Celebrity Hotel construction site, following the coup of 15th July.

Lapithos was originally a mixed village from where Turks were forced out in 1963 and following the coup, the security guard was not safe alone there.


A lot of things happened ... between Greeks and Turks and it is very difficult now for the two communities to live in harmony in mixed neighbourhoods


Kubilay Ali, UK


Along my way from Nicosia to Lapithos and back I encountered two check points in Kyrenia, both manned by Greek soldiers with tanks.

However, the most frightening experience I had was at Karavas by-pass (just before Lapithos) where armed civilian EOKA members stopped me and searched my car.

When I arrived at the hotel construction site I had time to have a quick coffee at nearby Greek-run seaside coffee place. Mr Panayi who was running the abandoned Turkish owned property was crying and explained to me that his son was injured at the Presidential Palace in Nicosia during the coup attempt and he did not know how he was.

His son was an officer with Makarios¿ own presidential guards who were attacked.

To this day I wonder what happened to his son.

A lot of things happened in Cyprus between Greeks and Turks and it is very difficult now for the two communities to live in harmony in mixed neighbourhoods.
Kubilay Ali, UK

Fear and confusion as the Turks invaded, running out under the cover of night with nothing but the clothes on our backs.


The violation still continues with churches being converted to stables and mosques


Demetris Drakos, Cyprus


Leaving behind our ancestral homes, our lives and in some cases or loved ones.

And the violation still continues with churches being converted to stables and mosques and Cypriots being denied the most basic of human rights to live where they like and be free.

And the international community is doing nothing about this as Turkey we know is of great importance to the western powers and they do not want to upset the "just" state where article 305 of the legal code there can land you in prison for 10 years for simply saying in public "Turkish troops out of Cyprus".

All we want is the right to return to our homes, to our deceased ones to cry for them and our churches to pray in.
Demetris Drakos, Cyprus

I am so sure that you will not publish my message but in any way I want to send it.

As Turks we are entirely happy for invading the Northern Cyprus in which now Turkish people live in peace.

If we did not invade there would be no Turks there and you would be so happy for that.
Tunay, Turkey

I am a Turkish Cypriot and have been living in the UK all my life.

I have heard many details from relatives who suffered in those terrible (for the Turks) pre-1974 days.

One such tale is from my brother-in-law who lost a baby brother because his mother was not allowed access to a hospital by the Greek soldiers.

Another where the men of a village were carted off never to return.

All this because the Greeks did not want the Turks on the island.

It absolutely amazes me that despite the problem being brought about by the Greek forces the world has held in solitary the Turkish half of the island and made a suffering people suffer further.

It is now plain to see that the Greeks do not want a unified island even though the Turkish half voted for it in an attempt to escape embargoes and hardship.

So why is it that the world still does not lift these sanctions even though they promised to after the referendum?

Why force a situation to re-unite under a single government when it can only be destined to end in yet more misery for all concerned?
Levent, UK

A lot of people forget the days we had no water, bread, no electricity and medical needs for months and years from Dec 23rd 1963 until 1974.

Thanks to our the Greeks living in Larnaca was hell as we did not have anything really.

Yet to this day I can not understand that Greeks they still believe they have done nothing wrong.

They will never change - always crying about how bad the Turks are - nothing new.
Ahmet Mustafa, Australia

I was 18 years old when I woke up to a war in Cyprus. Thirty years later I think of my Greek friends and wonder if they made it.

I was with the British forces as a civilian and had two baby girls. I was trapped in Limassol for three days with my little babies. I was lucky I was allowed the sanctuary of Akrotiri air force base, where we stayed for three weeks and listened to the massacre. I will never forget.
Brenda Wise, England

I was four years old when we left our Eftakomi village with the clothes on our backs and the tears in our eyes.

I went back 30 years later. Our first stop was the cemetery. My mother trying to find her father's unmarked grave, trying to remember the location her mother had told her about.

She held a bottle of holy water and both she and my father kept saying: if she was still alive she would know.

Unfortunately or fortunately my grandmother died in 2001 in the "free" Cyprus, two years before we were "allowed" to return to Eftakomi with a "visa".

We never found my grandfather's grave. My mother emptied the bottle of holy water everywhere she thought he might be and I tried to envision his smile as if he were alive asking him to guide me.

He was the life of the village. Everyone knew "ton Kroko". Stand-up comedian with an abundance of Turkish Cypriot friends. The barber who once made a soon to be groom bald just for a prank. Everyone loved him.

The second year we visited a Turkish Cypriot friend we encountered in the village came with us. We searched for the grave together and his eyes watered along with ours.

Again, the holy water sprinkled on the area we thought he might be and the Turkish friend telling us: "You sprinkle water too on the dead, just like us?"

Similar and the same we are Turkish Cypriots and Greek Cypriots, one face and one heart but yet the cemetery was even more devastated this summer. We couldn't see any more crosses on the graves, the few that were there the first year had disappeared, the tombstones had been broken and some moved as if the dead souls would go away if their monuments didn't exist.

Brothers and sisters we are, we are not Greeks or Turks, let's just call ourselves Cypriots, no other labeling, no more atrocities, erase the pain and live in peace just like then when o Krokos drank coffe with Mourat in Theoulos' coffee house.

They were smart enough to know that they shouldn't even look at the hate trees that had been planted by those who wished to eat their fruit one day. The big shots, the politicians, and the money-makers.

The companies buying the land in Varosi and Yialousa so their souls can be encrusted in bloody gold when they descend in the unknown. And beautiful Eftakomi and Yiouti and Krokos and Mourat untouched by all and alive still.
Despina, US

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The Turks invaded five days after the Greek-backed coup





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The island has remained divided since the 1974 invasion

Witness
My father was in the RAF and we lived with a Greek Cypriot family in Famagusta when the invasion happened.
I was eight years old, and vividly remember spending days in a bedroom in our house with a bed propped against the window. Being so young I had no idea of what was coming but knew my parents were worried about something.

Then one day we were sitting on the veranda when a Turkish Phantom streaked past followed by a huge explosion. The next thing we knew war was raging on the streets outside.

There was a ceasefire during which we went to the beach and were amazed by the damage to the town. I remember seeing a hotel on the beach that had been hit and half was standing, the other half had collapsed.

The ceasefire didn't last long and the fighting went on around us but the British army were unable to get us out until another ceasefire was in effect. My father ended up having to risk all by driving out to Ayos Nikolayos during the fighting to get help.

While he was gone my mother decided to try to get the Greek Cypriot woman, from downstairs, to come upstairs. She was worried that the soldiers would treat her, and her young daughter, badly if they broke in.

We were fired on when we tried to get down to the lower level of the house as we had to go outside to get down there. Eventually we got everyone upstairs again and waited for help to arrive.

The fighting seemed to go on forever but eventually the British army brought a convoy in to the town and we were taken to Pergamos army base, then we were flown to Akrotiri, and on to the UK. We eventually returned to Cyprus for a few more years finally leaving in 1977.

I never found out what happened to the woman from downstairs and her family. Her husband had gone to fight with the national guard, I can only hope they were ok. I will always feel sorry for the innocent people caught up in the struggle but the experience opened my eyes to both sides of human nature.
Graeme Stanford, England




Witness Stories
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1963: 'Stunned into silence' by JFK's death

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1980: The legend of Lennon
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Postby miltiades » Sat Mar 15, 2008 9:58 pm

Taken from the above BBC archive .

""""Brothers and sisters we are, we are not Greeks or Turks, let's just call ourselves Cypriots, no other labeling, no more atrocities, erase the pain and live in peace just like then when o Krokos drank coffe with Mourat in Theoulos' coffee house. """
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Postby Oracle » Sat Mar 15, 2008 9:58 pm

Zan wrote:Missing persons, what is the truth?


There are still 1.619 Greek Cypriots missing as a result of the Turkish invasion, many of whom were held in Turkish custody.

The ascertainment of the fate of the missing persons is still pending
Ecevit's distortion of Cypriot history arises from the same deeply ingrained ethic of reflexive denial that has led Turkish apologists to deny past and present horrors—from the Armenian Genocide earlier this century, to the ethnic cleansing of Kurds and Cypriots today—pervading every aspect of Turkey's self-evaluation and continuing to stunt its moral and political development.

BBC wrote:The Turkish army, despite the agreed ceasefire, went on to the second phase of the invasion in early August. Turkish soldiers, together with Turkish Cypriots, walked into the village cafe and arrested nine Greek-Cypriot civilians - one of them was my father.

I want to able to live now in a United Cyprus

Panos Hadjinicolaou, UK

Rumours say they were executed in a nearby village as a revenge to previous Greek-Cypriot violence in the area.
Turkey's response to the Greek intervention in Cyprus was disproportionate in force and brutality. An "emergency intervention" ended up a permanent land grab. Innocent people paid with their lives for the Greek nationalistic stupidity, the Turkish aggressiveness and the Anglo-American interests.
I don't want any more revenge. I want to find my father's remains and remember him properly. But, more than that, I want go back to my village, which is currently being bulldozed illegally by the Turks for a tourist "development", and re-connect with my memories and the other half of myself left in the north.

Andreas Charalambous was forced out of his village after the invasion
I was a young boy living happily with my family in a small village in Karpasia at the time. When the invasion occurred people panicked. There was very little fighting in our region and Turkish troops along with local Turkish Cypriot entered our village three weeks later.
They proceeded to round up all the men folk and beat them publicly in the village square before taking them to concentration camps in Turkey. Local Turkish Cypriots who a few days before were out neighbours joined in.
We were forced out one year later after being subjected to the worst humiliation and abuse the Turkish army had to offer. Whatever they say, it was no peace operation - the Turkish invasion was a brutal barbaric act and Turks should wake up and treat it for what it is, instead of celebrating genocide against the Greek Cypriots of northern Cyprus.
If the Germans can be mature to reflect on the Holocaust why can't the Turks do the same?

The violation still continues with churches being converted to stables and mosques
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