Cyprus-Forum.com

[humanist]

VP

I agree the Turkish army will go but this should also be the same for the Gc forces and 100.000 armed reservists in the south, the timing is important because if the Turkish army leave before anything else is agreed then we would be exposed to mayhem of people wanting to claim their old property, who would trust with our safety?

VP I agree that if there is a withdrawl of Turkish troops the national guard should go and the reservists ought to hand back their weapons. The UN will need to step up its protection troops from the threat of the barbaric Turkish army not doing a turn around invasion.

You guys can get around by not being threatened by the GC wanting their properties back by nicely adn willingly handing those homes back.

The RoC can assist in this way by taking a register of those not wanting to move back, those liek myself who would like the ancetral home back but not immediately and those who wish to move in right away. This will allow a smooth transition. The question is though how many TC will be willing to give back what is not theirs?

[zan]

The Crime:

The Illegitimate “TRNC” was born of the rape of Cyprus by Turkey’s Invasion (1974).

Turkey unilaterally invaded Cyprus whilst peaceful means to end the troubles were being sought by neutral agents. It failed to assist those already fighting to restore the legitimate government and instead massacred 7,000 GCs. To fulfil its pre-meditated rape and murder, it ethnically cleansed nearly 200,000 GCs from their homes and has since failed to account for over 1500 missing persons.

The Judgement:

Declared Illegal by countless UN resolutions (353 etc) condemning the invasion and declaring it illegal. Not recognised by any outside country.

The Punishment:

Isolation.... surprisingly the punishment is self imposed (or more accurately, by Turkey) Turkish Cypriot complaints about "isolation" fail to realise economic benefit because it is not the true objective of their leadership. Propagandist claims about "isolation" serve only to justify their current policy of politically upgrading the illegal regime in occupied Cyprus.

Proposed rehabilitation:

Instigate weaning the TCs from Turkey’s apron strings. They have to understand Turkey is only abusing them for her own ends. A bright future awaits the TCs if they abandon the last vestiges of their Mongolian links, just as we GCs have of our Greek links ... And together hand in hand embrace the future with our new partners in the EU.


What say you ....

Charge against Oracle

Pulling numbers out of the Greek propaganda books.......40,000 of the 200,000 refugees returned to their homes near the border almost immediately after 1974.

3,000 of the 7,000 dead ( which should read 6,000 at most) were killed by the coupist Greeks...

The number of missing.....Total fabrication by the likes of Frau Oracle.
(a) Permanent Mission of Greece to the United Nations: ( www.greeceun.org )

Quote:
"Moreover, thousands of people, including civilians, were killed or ill-treated by the Turkish invaders."


(b) The embassy of the illegal GC regime under "RoC" to the United States ( http://www.cyprusembassy.net )

Quote:
"The human cost was immense. Thousands of Greek Cypriots were killed or maimed as a result of the actions of the invading Turkish army."


These people have lied and their lies have been exposed time and time again. The true figures are far from what is being reflected. Minority Rights Group International ( www.minorityrights.org ), who gave a biased interpretation of the Cyprus conflict in the favour of the GCs even mentions:

Quote:
"An estimated 3,000 Greek Cypriots and 500 Turkish Cypriots had been killed within a month."


Even in a figure of 3000, the time of deaths during the coup is included. Here are just a few other credible journals that have reported on the number of deaths during the coup:

Die Zeit, 30 August 1974
Quote:
"In the four days that followed the coup, an estimated 2000 people, known to be ardent supporters of Makarios were killed. Their names were later added to those killed during the subsequent Turkish invasion."


Combat, Belgium, 25 July 1974
Quote:
"It has been confirmed that during the days following the coup in Nicosia at least 2000 of Makarios`s supporters have either been killed in the fighting or executed"


The number of dead and missing as a consequence of the coup have been reflected directly on to the Turkish Peace Operation and multiplied by some imaginary factors to manipulate and distort realities. Here are undisputable resources pointing to this along with a relevant confession by the GC leader:

Ambassador Nelson Ledsky sworn testimony before the US Senate Foreign Relations Committee, 17 April 1991
Quote:
"Most of the missing persons disappeared in the first days of July 1974, before the Turkish intervention on the 20th. Many killed on the Greek side were killed by Greek Cypriots in fighting between supporters of Makarios and Sampson."


GC President Glafkos Clerides, Cyprus Mail, 27 October 1995
Quote:
" Following a study of 487 of the 1,619 cases of missing Greek Cypriots by the Attorney-General's office, 96 people were found to have died in action."


Cyprus Mail, 3 March 1996
Quote:
"(Greek) Cypriot governments have found it convenient to conceal the scale of atrocities during the 15th July coup in an attempt to downplay its contribution to the tragedy of the summer of 1974 and instead blame the Turkish invasion for all casualties. There can be no justification for any government that failed to investigate this sensitive humanitarian issue. The shocking admission by the Clerides government that there are people buried in Nicosia cemetery who are still included in the list of the "missing" is the last episode of a human drama which has been turned into a propaganda tool."


What say you and what punishment for the fibber of the year????

And please tell us what peace talks were going on at the time....I have many more PROPER quotes for you.....

[Viewpoint]

VP

I agree the Turkish army will go but this should also be the same for the Gc forces and 100.000 armed reservists in the south, the timing is important because if the Turkish army leave before anything else is agreed then we would be exposed to mayhem of people wanting to claim their old property, who would trust with our safety?

VP I agree that if there is a withdrawl of Turkish troops the national guard should go and the reservists ought to hand back their weapons. The UN will need to step up its protection troops from the threat of the barbaric Turkish army not doing a turn around invasion.

You guys can get around by not being threatened by the GC wanting their properties back by nicely adn willingly handing those homes back.

The RoC can assist in this way by taking a register of those not wanting to move back, those liek myself who would like the ancetral home back but not immediately and those who wish to move in right away. This will allow a smooth transition. The question is though how many TC will be willing to give back what is not theirs?

The UN will also have to ensure the GCs disband rather than regroup after the Turkish Army depart.

Properties should be handed back to those who want to live in the north under TC administration in an orderly manner and only after people have been relocated/rehoused. Those that do not want to move back should be compensated the register should conducted by an indepedent body as the "RoC" is not trusted by the TCs and could be manipulated by GC officials to claim uncliamed properties by GCs.

[Oracle]

The Crime:

The Illegitimate “TRNC” was born of the rape of Cyprus by Turkey’s Invasion (1974).

Turkey unilaterally invaded Cyprus whilst peaceful means to end the troubles were being sought by neutral agents. It failed to assist those already fighting to restore the legitimate government and instead massacred 7,000 GCs. To fulfil its pre-meditated rape and murder, it ethnically cleansed nearly 200,000 GCs from their homes and has since failed to account for over 1500 missing persons.

The Judgement:

Declared Illegal by countless UN resolutions (353 etc) condemning the invasion and declaring it illegal. Not recognised by any outside country.

The Punishment:

Isolation.... surprisingly the punishment is self imposed (or more accurately, by Turkey) Turkish Cypriot complaints about "isolation" fail to realise economic benefit because it is not the true objective of their leadership. Propagandist claims about "isolation" serve only to justify their current policy of politically upgrading the illegal regime in occupied Cyprus.

Proposed rehabilitation:

Instigate weaning the TCs from Turkey’s apron strings. They have to understand Turkey is only abusing them for her own ends. A bright future awaits the TCs if they abandon the last vestiges of their Mongolian links, just as we GCs have of our Greek links ... And together hand in hand embrace the future with our new partners in the EU.


What say you ....

Charge against Oracle

Pulling numbers out of the Greek propaganda books.......40,000 of the 200,000 refugees returned to their homes near the border almost immediately after 1974.

3,000 of the 7,000 dead ( which should read 6,000 at most) were killed by the coupist Greeks...

The number of missing.....Total fabrication by the likes of Frau Oracle.
(a) Permanent Mission of Greece to the United Nations: ( www.greeceun.org )

Quote:
"Moreover, thousands of people, including civilians, were killed or ill-treated by the Turkish invaders."


(b) The embassy of the illegal GC regime under "RoC" to the United States ( http://www.cyprusembassy.net )

Quote:
"The human cost was immense. Thousands of Greek Cypriots were killed or maimed as a result of the actions of the invading Turkish army."


These people have lied and their lies have been exposed time and time again. The true figures are far from what is being reflected. Minority Rights Group International ( www.minorityrights.org ), who gave a biased interpretation of the Cyprus conflict in the favour of the GCs even mentions:

Quote:
"An estimated 3,000 Greek Cypriots and 500 Turkish Cypriots had been killed within a month."


Even in a figure of 3000, the time of deaths during the coup is included. Here are just a few other credible journals that have reported on the number of deaths during the coup:

Die Zeit, 30 August 1974
Quote:
"In the four days that followed the coup, an estimated 2000 people, known to be ardent supporters of Makarios were killed. Their names were later added to those killed during the subsequent Turkish invasion."


Combat, Belgium, 25 July 1974
Quote:
"It has been confirmed that during the days following the coup in Nicosia at least 2000 of Makarios`s supporters have either been killed in the fighting or executed"


The number of dead and missing as a consequence of the coup have been reflected directly on to the Turkish Peace Operation and multiplied by some imaginary factors to manipulate and distort realities. Here are undisputable resources pointing to this along with a relevant confession by the GC leader:

Ambassador Nelson Ledsky sworn testimony before the US Senate Foreign Relations Committee, 17 April 1991
Quote:
"Most of the missing persons disappeared in the first days of July 1974, before the Turkish intervention on the 20th. Many killed on the Greek side were killed by Greek Cypriots in fighting between supporters of Makarios and Sampson."


GC President Glafkos Clerides, Cyprus Mail, 27 October 1995
Quote:
" Following a study of 487 of the 1,619 cases of missing Greek Cypriots by the Attorney-General's office, 96 people were found to have died in action."


Cyprus Mail, 3 March 1996
Quote:
"(Greek) Cypriot governments have found it convenient to conceal the scale of atrocities during the 15th July coup in an attempt to downplay its contribution to the tragedy of the summer of 1974 and instead blame the Turkish invasion for all casualties. There can be no justification for any government that failed to investigate this sensitive humanitarian issue. The shocking admission by the Clerides government that there are people buried in Nicosia cemetery who are still included in the list of the "missing" is the last episode of a human drama which has been turned into a propaganda tool."


What say you and what punishment for the fibber of the year????

And please tell us what peace talks were going on at the time....I have many more PROPER quotes for you.....

I have been noticing you Zan ... chasing me betwixt the threads ... just choosing to ignore you until you make sense ...

This is not to say that you are now making sense ... just informing you that you will be ignored until you do ask a sensible question ...

[zan]

The Crime:

The Illegitimate “TRNC” was born of the rape of Cyprus by Turkey’s Invasion (1974).

Turkey unilaterally invaded Cyprus whilst peaceful means to end the troubles were being sought by neutral agents. It failed to assist those already fighting to restore the legitimate government and instead massacred 7,000 GCs. To fulfil its pre-meditated rape and murder, it ethnically cleansed nearly 200,000 GCs from their homes and has since failed to account for over 1500 missing persons.

The Judgement:

Declared Illegal by countless UN resolutions (353 etc) condemning the invasion and declaring it illegal. Not recognised by any outside country.

The Punishment:

Isolation.... surprisingly the punishment is self imposed (or more accurately, by Turkey) Turkish Cypriot complaints about "isolation" fail to realise economic benefit because it is not the true objective of their leadership. Propagandist claims about "isolation" serve only to justify their current policy of politically upgrading the illegal regime in occupied Cyprus.

Proposed rehabilitation:

Instigate weaning the TCs from Turkey’s apron strings. They have to understand Turkey is only abusing them for her own ends. A bright future awaits the TCs if they abandon the last vestiges of their Mongolian links, just as we GCs have of our Greek links ... And together hand in hand embrace the future with our new partners in the EU.


What say you ....

Charge against Oracle

Pulling numbers out of the Greek propaganda books.......40,000 of the 200,000 refugees returned to their homes near the border almost immediately after 1974.

3,000 of the 7,000 dead ( which should read 6,000 at most) were killed by the coupist Greeks...

The number of missing.....Total fabrication by the likes of Frau Oracle.
(a) Permanent Mission of Greece to the United Nations: ( www.greeceun.org )

Quote:
"Moreover, thousands of people, including civilians, were killed or ill-treated by the Turkish invaders."


(b) The embassy of the illegal GC regime under "RoC" to the United States ( http://www.cyprusembassy.net )

Quote:
"The human cost was immense. Thousands of Greek Cypriots were killed or maimed as a result of the actions of the invading Turkish army."


These people have lied and their lies have been exposed time and time again. The true figures are far from what is being reflected. Minority Rights Group International ( www.minorityrights.org ), who gave a biased interpretation of the Cyprus conflict in the favour of the GCs even mentions:

Quote:
"An estimated 3,000 Greek Cypriots and 500 Turkish Cypriots had been killed within a month."


Even in a figure of 3000, the time of deaths during the coup is included. Here are just a few other credible journals that have reported on the number of deaths during the coup:

Die Zeit, 30 August 1974
Quote:
"In the four days that followed the coup, an estimated 2000 people, known to be ardent supporters of Makarios were killed. Their names were later added to those killed during the subsequent Turkish invasion."


Combat, Belgium, 25 July 1974
Quote:
"It has been confirmed that during the days following the coup in Nicosia at least 2000 of Makarios`s supporters have either been killed in the fighting or executed"


The number of dead and missing as a consequence of the coup have been reflected directly on to the Turkish Peace Operation and multiplied by some imaginary factors to manipulate and distort realities. Here are undisputable resources pointing to this along with a relevant confession by the GC leader:

Ambassador Nelson Ledsky sworn testimony before the US Senate Foreign Relations Committee, 17 April 1991
Quote:
"Most of the missing persons disappeared in the first days of July 1974, before the Turkish intervention on the 20th. Many killed on the Greek side were killed by Greek Cypriots in fighting between supporters of Makarios and Sampson."


GC President Glafkos Clerides, Cyprus Mail, 27 October 1995
Quote:
" Following a study of 487 of the 1,619 cases of missing Greek Cypriots by the Attorney-General's office, 96 people were found to have died in action."


Cyprus Mail, 3 March 1996
Quote:
"(Greek) Cypriot governments have found it convenient to conceal the scale of atrocities during the 15th July coup in an attempt to downplay its contribution to the tragedy of the summer of 1974 and instead blame the Turkish invasion for all casualties. There can be no justification for any government that failed to investigate this sensitive humanitarian issue. The shocking admission by the Clerides government that there are people buried in Nicosia cemetery who are still included in the list of the "missing" is the last episode of a human drama which has been turned into a propaganda tool."


What say you and what punishment for the fibber of the year????

And please tell us what peace talks were going on at the time....I have many more PROPER quotes for you.....

I have been noticing you Zan ... chasing me betwixt the threads ... just choosing to ignore you until you make sense ...

This is not to say that you are now making sense ... just informing you that you will be ignored until you do ask a sensible question ...

Answer to the charges dear and stop shifting around...I can see you!!!!!!!

[humanist]

The UN will also have to ensure the GCs disband rather than regroup after the Turkish Army depart.

Properties should be handed back to those who want to live in the north under TC administration in an orderly manner and only after people have been relocated/rehoused. Those that do not want to move back should be compensated the register should conducted by an indepedent body as the "RoC" is not trusted by the TCs and could be manipulated by GC officials to claim uncliamed properties by GCs.

VP as per your first point totally agree, though my point was made in toungue and cheek, both scenarios are possible though I have to agree Turkey would most likely not do that, however fascists from both sides living on the Island might. Very important point that needs to be accounted for.

as per your second point I totally agree if what you refer too as TC administration is one thta is under a unified Cyprus with a federal governmnetal system as propposed under a BBF model. As far as the independent committee I would also agree but would suggest that if we are going to be living togeher perhaps there can be representatives from both communties as well the maronite coommunities as there are a few maronites that may be affected by the process.

[Oracle]

[Answer to the charges dear and stop shifting around...I can see you!!!!!!!

.... it's not a pretty sight at the moment... I am demolishing my Chinese Take-Away from Latchi, whilst polishing off the complimentary bottle of wine, in my flannelette nightie (it's cold here tonight ) and my hair (too long not seen scissors) ... tied up in a bun ...

[zan]

[Answer to the charges dear and stop shifting around...I can see you!!!!!!!

.... it's not a pretty sight at the moment... I am demolishing my Chinese Take-Away from Latchi, whilst polishing off the complimentary bottle of wine, in my flannelette nightie (it's cold here tonight ) and my hair (too long not seen scissors) ... tied up in a bun ...

AH! Just as I imagined you anyway but instead of a chinese you are crouched over a dead body with blood dripping from your mouth!!!

[Oracle]

[Answer to the charges dear and stop shifting around...I can see you!!!!!!!

.... it's not a pretty sight at the moment... I am demolishing my Chinese Take-Away from Latchi, whilst polishing off the complimentary bottle of wine, in my flannelette nightie (it's cold here tonight ) and my hair (too long not seen scissors) ... tied up in a bun ...

AH! Just as I imagined you anyway but instead of a chinese you are crouched over a dead body with blood dripping from your mouth!!!

Zan ... definitely no animal products ... fried rice, mix veg stir fry with ginger sauce and spinach with garlic ....

[zan]

[Answer to the charges dear and stop shifting around...I can see you!!!!!!!

.... it's not a pretty sight at the moment... I am demolishing my Chinese Take-Away from Latchi, whilst polishing off the complimentary bottle of wine, in my flannelette nightie (it's cold here tonight ) and my hair (too long not seen scissors) ... tied up in a bun ...

AH! Just as I imagined you anyway but instead of a chinese you are crouched over a dead body with blood dripping from your mouth!!!

Zan ... definitely no animal products ... fried rice, mix veg stir fry with ginger sauce and spinach with garlic ....

Then sit back and wait for the full moooooowwwwwn......