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Cyprus-forum farewell present to Rauf...

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Rauf Raif Denktas - will you miss him?

Poll ended at Sun Apr 17, 2005 4:18 pm

Yes
10
56%
No
6
33%
Rauf who?
2
11%
 
Total votes : 18

Cyprus-forum farewell present to Rauf...

Postby cannedmoose » Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:18 pm

On a comical, albeit Cyprus problem-related issue, now that dear ol' Rauf is departing for a comfortable retirement by the sea, I'm inviting suggestions for a farewell gift that we as a forum could offer him after a half-century of representation. Like him or loath him, you can't accuse him of not sticking to his principles, something that's quite rare in politicians these days. Therefore, what would be your parting gift to Rauf this Sunday?

To kick things off, knowing Rauf's great affection for the 'only true Cypriots', and since they look vaguely like moose, my gift to him would be a lifetime sponsorship of Jason, one of the Donkeys at the Friends of the Cyprus Donkey sanctuary.

http://www.donkeycyprus.com/adopt.html

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Postby insan » Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:26 pm

I'll miss the Rauf of 1965-82 period. For 1982 - 2005 period, I'll remember him as a man who had done some things correct and many things wrong.

As for the Sunday gift for Rauf; a double-sided medal that the symbol on front side will remind him what he did correctly and another symbol on the back side for reminding him what he did wrongly.
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Postby brother » Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:52 pm

My sentiments are almost identical to insan's but i think he has already given himself enough presents over the years like the shit load of lands etc.
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Postby cannedmoose » Thu Apr 14, 2005 7:42 pm

Why until 1982, what do you think changed at that point? Do you think the declaration of TRNC in '83 changed his mindset? Do you think he simply saw himself and TRNC as one and the same and became obstinate as a result? I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.

P.S. Yay, this is my 500th post! Image
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Postby turkcyp » Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:22 pm

Looking for the day where you open the same topic for T.Pap. and alikes in the GC side.

p.s. As a person who had voted for Denktas in all of the previous presidential elections in north. However he should have retired a while ago.
Last edited by turkcyp on Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby insan » Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:32 pm

cannedmoose wrote:Why until 1982, what do you think changed at that point? Do you think the declaration of TRNC in '83 changed his mindset? Do you think he simply saw himself and TRNC as one and the same and became obstinate as a result? I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.

P.S. Yay, this is my 500th post! Image



As far as I understood form what I've read about the Cyprus problem and the approaches of Denktash. Most of the times Denktash felt himself frustrated by GC leadership. He felt himself frustrated by Makarios in 1963-74 period. He felt himself frustrated by Kyprianou in 1977- 1982 period.

The Turkish-Cypriot attitude to the Interim Agreement' proposal.

Throughout the 1980s the Turkish Cypriots were under the leadership of Rauf Denktash, a fact very much reflected in the intercommunal talks and in the attitude of Turkish Cypriots to the Interim Agreement proposal. The fundamental issue for the Turkish Cypriot leadership was the nature of the federal government in any given proposal. It argued that 'federation must be built from the basis of the existing two de facto administrations and that Cyprus should be a "decentralised" or "weak", federation with provisions for slow and long-term progress to a customs union and centralised fiscal and economic policy-making.' Obviously, this differed widely from the Greek Cypriots' idea of a centralised federation, which Turkish Cypriots asserted was not a genuine 'federation', because a strong central government would have powers to override the units." This difference sometimes showed itself in a bitter fashion: at one stage Denktash called his opposite number Kyprianou 'a shortsighted Enosis puppet', lacking all qualities of seriousness, responsibility and understanding.


http://www.cyprus-conflict.net/int'l%20 ... '80-86.htm

The reaction of frustrated Denktash shouldn't have been TRNC and allowing more settlers to come Cyprus.

In the 80s, in my opinion; he should have focused on to gradually fulfill the provisions of mutually ratified agreements. In 80s, there wasn't so many settlers and they weren't given citizenships yet. In early 80s an interim bi-communal chamber could have been formed in order to open a way for parliamentarians of both sides to come together, discuss the fulfillment of the provisions of mutually ratified agreements, take decisions and implement them.

I strongly believe that despite the known stance of GC side, if Turkish side had focused upon the solution of the Cyprus problem in boundaries of mutually ratified agreements and UN resolutions; solutions could have been found for some important parts of the problem.

Turkish side shouldn't have retaliated to everything they didn't like about the Hellenic stance. I think, afterwards 1982, Turkish side lost its hopes for a federal reunification and wanted to open a path for recognition as a seperate state. Afterwards 1982, Turkish side acted like a seperate state without taking into consideration the concequences of such stance.

On the other hand Turkish side kept negotiating the UN proposals in frame of its own solution thesis and its own interpretation based on mutually ratified agreements and UN resolutions. Everything proposed by UN and GC side that were interpretated/considered out of the frame of Turkish solution thesis, mutually ratified agreements and UN resolutions rejected by turkish side.

Conclusion:

1- Self-Proclamation of TRNC was a wrong step. There's no need for changing the name of Cyprus Turkish Federated State to TRNC. Self-Proclamation of TRNC created negative impressions on relevant parties and international public opinion.

2- Turkish side couldn't effectively defend its solution thesis. As I stated above there were many things Turkish side was able to do. At least, Turkish side was able to propose many things in frame of mutually ratified agreements. Perhaps the proposals of Turkish side would have been rejected by GC side but Turkish side would have shown its willingness to solve the problem. To the contrary of these, Denktash and his team had most of the times been seemed like the intrasigence side. It's true that Hellenic lobby had a huge role of creating such a negative international impression about Denktash and Turkish side but it was Denktash's and Turkey's wrong policies that provided the propaganda material for the Hellenic lobbyists to exagerrate the events, distort the facts in order to achieve their own goal.


The irrational steps taken by the Cyprus problem solution team of Turkish side caused a big damage on TC communal cause.

1- %9 of the land should have been given back to GC administration right after the ratification of summit agreements in 1977. If Turkish side gave %9 of the occupied land back to GC administration, it would have resolved a part of land ownership and refugees issues.

2- The settlers shouldn't have been given the GC properties for free. The GC properties should have been rented to settlers with the market prices of the North. Such a measure would have stopped most of the settlers to rush to North.

3- In 80s Turkish side should have focused upon to study and make suggestions concerning some important issues:

a- Gradual return of a certain number of GC refugees, according to mutually ratified agreements.

b- Pro-active, effective arguments to create an international public opinion for lifting the embargos imposed upon TC community.

c- Bi-lateral reduction of military power on both sides of the Island.

d- Exchange of properties.


The things I've stated above could also have been done/suggested by Hellenic side. However put aside Hellenic side taking such practical steps, suggesting some practical solutions on some specific issues; they pushed Turkish side to a more draconian point by following a destructive propagandist approach against TC administration and Turkey.

Denktash and his Cyprus problem solution team made many unforgiveable mistakes afterwards 1982. Retaliatory approches have always damaged the interests of all concerned parties but the retaliatory approches of Turkish side afterwards 1982 has damaged the interests of TC community and Turkey more than it has damaged the interests of GC community.
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Postby MicAtCyp » Thu Apr 14, 2005 10:48 pm

Like it or not it's Denktash's intangidence that brought you to the 2 separate states situation as described in the Anan plan.
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Postby insan » Thu Apr 14, 2005 11:39 pm

MicAtCyp wrote:Like it or not it's Denktash's intangidence that brought you to the 2 separate states situation as described in the Anan plan.


As long as Hellenic ruling elite insist on majority rule, return of all refugees and nullification of treaty of guarantee; the result wouldn't be different.

Like it or not, this is the fact. This is not something related with intansigence of Hellenic side but their strong belief which has its roots in irredentism and Hellenism.
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Postby Main_Source » Fri Apr 15, 2005 3:04 am

lol...who tries to compare Denktash to Papadoplous. It makes me laugh, for everything there is negeive in N. Cyprus, certain people here have to try and make an example of a Greek Cypriot...even if the comparisons are that stupid.
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Postby turkcyp » Fri Apr 15, 2005 4:31 am

Main_Source wrote:lol...who tries to compare Denktash to Papadoplous. It makes me laugh, for everything there is negeive in N. Cyprus, certain people here have to try and make an example of a Greek Cypriot...even if the comparisons are that stupid.


You are right. WE are not being fair to Denktas. He is worse than him....
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