Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

Using blocks out of the AP is not the issue here. The issue is that it can not be used as a basis. Using it as a basis means you will use the existing plan and negotiate from that stage. This plan was rejected and will be rejected again by the GC. And offcourse the TC and Turkey will stall.....they have been doing that the last 33 years! The interests for the Turks on the island should be taken out of the plan. Did you even read the plan before discussing it on a forum? Well.....I did. And believe me....this plan was in no interest for the GC nor the TC. And the recognition option is totally out of the question. Who will recognise the so called TRNC? Only Turky otherwise it means they will have to demolish the UN. If the UN goes against their own resolutions the whole world will see them as a big joke Lets give the Kurds a state aswell while we are at it. The last chance threats and all kind off bullshit we've heard enough the last couple of years, but there is some truth in it. It's the last chance for Turkey to compromise or forget their EU aspirations.

P.S. I have noticed in various threads that when it get's a little tough for you you allways mention what happened in the past and go back to before 74. At least there is some GC that admit that mistakes were made. Unfortunatly we do not see these kind of statements from Turks or TC. Allways need 2 to tango.....so 2 are to blame. Stop crying and let's find a solution for the CYPRIOTS.....not anybody else who has interests on the island

This is where you are wrong, TCs do accept some of the blame but GCs do not want to read or acknowledge this fact abd just like you ignore what we have to say, you may be confused that TCs will always point to enosis for the cause of the divide.

From your above statement it appears that all the problems and pressure are on our side, you can expect forum members to accept this becasue you say so, if you are honest you will now list the problems risks and pressures faced by GCs who rejected the only plan put forward for referndum and backed by the majority of the world.

Lets read what you have to say?

[wallace]

Well.....you are the first 1 I hear mention that TC's are also to blame. And don't get me wrong....you are talking about enosis for the cause of divide.......well.....that says more about you then any other side involved in this problem. Enosis is a word out of the past and is only used as you say for the cause of divide. What you are in matter of fact saying is that you do not want a solution on the island and so do your leaders. Be clear about it then and do not throw bullshit stories around that the Turkish or Turkish Cypriot side has done everything to find a solution.

Let's go back just a couple of years and not all the way before 74. (lets say about 10 )

You tell me what the Turkish and the Turkis Cypriot side has done up untill now to stimulate a solution???

Not one Turkish soldier has left the island. (Occupation army as mentioned in various UN resolutions)
Settlers are coming in by the 1000's
GC property is being sold to foreigners and given to settlers.

Now what has the GC side done? They have given or the ones that want a Cypriot passport.
This means that you have all the benefits of the EU and the same rights as all other citizens etc.
Turkish Cypriots work in the south with better incomes without problems.
Have given you the right to get your property under certain conditions.

But then again.....what more do they want? There own state? Let's get realistic here.
It seems more and more everyday that when Turkey or one of your pseudo politicians open their mouth the following comes out: What's ours is ours and what's yours we also want to be ours.

And last but not least: People in the south of Cyprus have built up a stable economy which we can not say from the north who depends on Turkish liras. The pressures will not be on the GC's. They are allready member of the EU. Let's see if Turkey can also get there with this attitude

[Viewpoint]

waalace we will always differ in opinion as we look at the issue from different sides of the spectrum.

Well.....you are the first 1 I hear mention that TC's are also to blame. And don't get me wrong....you are talking about enosis for the cause of divide.......well.....that says more about you then any other side involved in this problem. Enosis is a word out of the past and is only used as you say for the cause of divide. What you are in matter of fact saying is that you do not want a solution on the island and so do your leaders. Be clear about it then and do not throw bullshit stories around that the Turkish or Turkish Cypriot side has done everything to find a solution.

That is not hwta I am saying at all and says more for your ability to comprehend the other side of the coin.

I refer to enosis as it was what caused the chain of events leading to division. Im trying to to put it as simply as possible so that you may try to understand where I am coming from.

TCs are the ones who want a solution as they are the ones who have lost more in recognition and economic growth and this does not start in 1974 but in 1963 long before the GCs, who have enjoyed the recognition and the benefits that includes.

Let's go back just a couple of years and not all the way before 74. (lets say about 10 )

You tell me what the Turkish and the Turkis Cypriot side has done up untill now to stimulate a solution???

Not one Turkish soldier has left the island. (Occupation army as mentioned in various UN resolutions)
Settlers are coming in by the 1000's

We have opened the borders everyone can roam and settle freely,

We have set up a Property commission and returned land and compensated GC refugees, without having to live in the TRNC for 6 months.

People can use use all places of worship freely

You may fly in and out of our airports without hinderence.

If you do not allow an economy to develop with out isolation it will find ways which can support growth, so in fact GCs are shooting themselves in the foot by not allowing us to develop tourism and exports, instead land sales and foreign workers/settlers will increase to support growth.

Now what has the GC side done? They have given or the ones that want a Cypriot passport.
This means that you have all the benefits of the EU and the same rights as all other citizens etc.
Turkish Cypriots work in the south with better incomes without problems.
Have given you the right to get your property under certain conditions.

ALl these are inforced if they did not conform to this the EU woudl force them, if you cliam that TCs are your people then you have provide the basics a passport, medical care jobs etc...try refusing and see what the outcome will be the negative response by the internantional community woudl be far more than the financial burden.

But then again.....what more do they want? There own state? Let's get realistic here.
It seems more and more everyday that when Turkey or one of your pseudo politicians open their mouth the following comes out: What's ours is ours and what's yours we also want to be ours.

Rubbish, I want a solution that everyone would back but I am also ralistic at what can be achieved and the last 48 years is testment to my rightness that the chasm is wide to bridge and the best solution for everyone will be agree partition as we prove time and time again that we do not have the ability of the capacity to compromise which is vital to finding a solution.

And last but not least: People in the south of Cyprus have built up a stable economy which we can not say from the north who depends on Turkish liras. The pressures will not be on the GC's. They are allready member of the EU. Let's see if Turkey can also get there with this attitude

They have built up their economy on the theft of my part of the "RoC" using recognition for their sole benefit and isolating the TCs for wanting their share of the 1960s partnership.

[wallace]

Everyone can settle freely accept the GC. The first compensation money still has to be transferred. And you say....I want a solution that is backed by everyone and then again you think partition is the best solution.
Lots of people...TC and GC will not agree. Eventhough problems have occured in the past I can mention that due to the growth in the south....people have gotten much more mature the last decades.

The only ones to blame for the isolation of the north of Cyprus is the Turks. They mis-used their guarantorship to invade the island. I do not understand why you guys allways blame the GC side for you isolation. It's the UN that sees your selfmade pseudo state as an illegal state. Can you imagine if everybody that calls himself a minority starts creating states of their own in various countries? What a shitty world we would have

Believe me......if they would let the GC en TC sit around the table without interference from 3rd parties I think that a solution can be found within days.

[Viewpoint]

Everyone can settle freely accept the GC. The first compensation money still has to be transferred. And you say....I want a solution that is backed by everyone and then again you think partition is the best solution.
Lots of people...TC and GC will not agree. Eventhough problems have occured in the past I can mention that due to the growth in the south....people have gotten much more mature the last decades.

The only ones to blame for the isolation of the north of Cyprus is the Turks. They mis-used their guarantorship to invade the island. I do not understand why you guys allways blame the GC side for you isolation. It's the UN that sees your selfmade pseudo state as an illegal state. Can you imagine if everybody that calls himself a minority starts creating states of their own in various countries? What a shitty world we would have

Believe me......if they would let the GC en TC sit around the table without interference from 3rd parties I think that a solution can be found within days.

GC can settle in the north today and there a few who have, but they do not want to admit we exist and abide by our laws therefore acknowledging the TRNC exists. I really don't think that the GCs have matured a great deal the packaging may have changed but the bottom line is GCs do not see us as equals they do not accept us as equal partners, they see us as a minority in a GC state, which we will never accept, that's why the stalemate continues.

Why are the Turks the only ones to blame? they arrived to sort the problem out were we able to sort anything out? we couldn't in 1963 and we cant even today, so saying they are the only problem would not be right. The last refusal of BBF put forward by the UN was rejected by non other than yourselves.

We had a partnership, with community rights on which you reneged not a minority-ship and stole our country, we fought back and against all the odds grabbed ourselves a piece of our own land and created a safe haven until a solution can be found, which as I have stated before is near enough impossible as the chasm is to wide and getting wider.

The GCs and TCs did sit around a table and negotiate during the AP the GCs didn't like the outcome, who's to say that they will like what comes out of this round of talks if they ever get started.

[Nikitas]

"Quote: Tess, Larnaca airport, or part of it, is on TC land, the WHOLE of the TRNC is on GC land, so let us not quibble about a few acres here and there! end quote

That is absolutely NOT true, and what I said about Larnaca was in responce to Oracles comments.
Tess"

Talat himself has stated the amount of TC landholding in the north at below 16 per cent of private land ownership. Look at the development going on in the north. Is it limited to 16 per cent of the land? We all know the answer.

[Viewpoint]

"Quote: Tess, Larnaca airport, or part of it, is on TC land, the WHOLE of the TRNC is on GC land, so let us not quibble about a few acres here and there! end quote

That is absolutely NOT true, and what I said about Larnaca was in responce to Oracles comments.
Tess"

Talat himself has stated the amount of TC landholding in the north at below 16 per cent of private land ownership. Look at the development going on in the north. Is it limited to 16 per cent of the land? We all know the answer.

Did you really expect us to restrict ourselves to 16% if thats the % while waiting for you guys to make up your mind to even talk to us? Life goes on and will keep going we cannot be expect to be held hostage in all areas of our exsistence.

[Nikitas]

If you needed more land you could have used government owned land, not privte citizens' property. If you had done that maybe the soslution would have been faster in coming. But easy money is hard to resist. The property theft was not a state business, it was done by individual while the so called government looked the other way.

[zan]

If you needed more land you could have used government owned land, not privte citizens' property. If you had done that maybe the soslution would have been faster in coming. But easy money is hard to resist. The property theft was not a state business, it was done by individual while the so called government looked the other way.

That is exactly what we did until the OXI on the Annan Plan....How long do you think we are going to tip toe around in our own state as if the land has been mined?????

[wallace]

Bullshit.....land has been sold even before the AP. What state? You call it a state......but nobody recognises it. I have just declared 4 square kilometers around my house the internal Wallace state in Cyprus. i will start all procedures today to get recognised the coming 100 years