Cyprus-Forum.com

[Oracle]

Going back to the topic!

Grivas was a crazy facist, who wanted to use the big Greek military presence on the island to wipe TC's out within a few days. !

Grivas was in Cyprus for over 10 years ... if he wanted to wipe out TCs within days why did he not do so, over the course of 10 years?

A little thing called TURKEY got in the way....Methinks!!!!!

It took over 10 years for them to mount an invasion against a country 100th their size ..... and even then they had to wait until the GCs were half-beaten by the coupists

[zan]

Going back to the topic!

Grivas was a crazy facist, who wanted to use the big Greek military presence on the island to wipe TC's out within a few days. !

Grivas was in Cyprus for over 10 years ... if he wanted to wipe out TCs within days why did he not do so, over the course of 10 years?

A little thing called TURKEY got in the way....Methinks!!!!!

It took over 10 years for them to mount an invasion against a country 100th their size ..... and even then they had to wait until the GCs were half-beaten by the coupists

Stop complaining.......If you wanted to be dominated that bad then there are plenty of places on the Internet that will give you information on where to go...Alternatively...Let me know when you want to Visit Turkey and I will let them know to prepare something special for you......Or you can walk the streets of the "RoC" an wait for the Russian mafia to come along......One a minute I heard!!!

[wallace]

Again leaving from the subject zan.........let's get the realities on the table

All over the world it is well known that there is a occupation on the island of Cyprus. As a so called garantor state you do not invade!!! International law is a prove regarding that. If the turkish cypriots rather live in a regime controlled by the turks no problem. Close the ceasefire lines and get your financials from turkey and leave all other parties involved alone. Stop crying and get on with it like it is now. Be isolated and follow the advises from the so called motherland and be poor. It's a choice you make Read all UN resolutions once more and lets get to the facts. They are there and can not be disputed

[zan]

Again leaving from the subject zan.........let's get the realities on the table

All over the world it is well known that there is a occupation on the island of Cyprus. As a so called garantor state you do not invade!!! International law is a prove regarding that. If the turkish cypriots rather live in a regime controlled by the turks no problem. Close the ceasefire lines and get your financials from turkey and leave all other parties involved alone. Stop crying and get on with it like it is now. Be isolated and follow the advises from the so called motherland and be poor. It's a choice you make Read all UN resolutions once more and lets get to the facts. They are there and can not be disputed

Great then........Many more meatings with the OIC and hope you will not be bleating when we start to make our own way...Hitching our hopes on a fair solution is what has been holding us back anyway....... What fools we are!!!

[wallace]

The only fair solution for the TC's and Turkey is a recognised state. That's not going to happen I'm afraid. How many meetings have there been untill now with the OIC. Many the last couple of years. Did anything change? I don't think so.....and it neither will. They all know that it is against international law to recognise the pseudo state.

But lets look on the bright side 21st will be the first meeting between Christofias and Talat.....The Ledra gate will open soon. First steps are being made. I'd rather have a beer and talk about the wheather when Ledra opens.

We can discuss untill we drop........we are not the ones that will decide on the end of the day. Others will put their signature under the solution

[Oracle]

Going back to the topic!

Grivas was a crazy facist, who wanted to use the big Greek military presence on the island to wipe TC's out within a few days. !

Grivas was in Cyprus for over 10 years ... if he wanted to wipe out TCs within days why did he not do so, over the course of 10 years?

A little thing called TURKEY got in the way....Methinks!!!!!

It took over 10 years for them to mount an invasion against a country 100th their size ..... and even then they had to wait until the GCs were half-beaten by the coupists

Stop complaining.......If you wanted to be dominated that bad then there are plenty of places on the Internet that will give you information on where to go...Alternatively...Let me know when you want to Visit Turkey and I will let them know to prepare something special for you......Or you can walk the streets of the "RoC" an wait for the Russian mafia to come along......One a minute I heard!!!

Don't gloat Zan, you have no pull with Turkey. .. Turkey never came to rescue you ... they came to slaughter GCs, ethnically cleanse them from their homes and take their land ... plain and simple. You are just the hostages for bargaining for Turkey's other demands.

[observer]

Oracle wrote:

At no point did Turkey communicate with the GCs who were themselves already in the process of terminating the coup.

Turkey did not seek alliance with the GCs ... it did not intervene to assist, but it invaded to gain for itself.

Turkey may have communicated with US, and UK and even Greece ... but at no point did they communicate with the GCs who were at the forefront of the resistance to the coup.

So why did Turkey not only by-pass the GCs but also join in killing them?

On the evening of July 19th 1974, when Turkey's decision was made:
1. The GC President, Makarios, had fled the island.
2. Sampson was in power (he didn't resign until 23rd July).
3. All the major population centres in GC hands were held by the coupists.
4. CyBC was held by the coupists.
5. The airport was held by the coupists and additional Greek soldiers had been flown in.
6. More Greek soldiers were on their way to Cyprus by sea.
7. Coupists felt sufficiently in charge to move tanks and artillery (the anti-coupists having none by now) to surround TC areas.
This seems a long way from "the GCs ... already in the process of terminating the coup"

As for the GCs who Turkey should have allied themselves with, can you suggest who they might be? I can not remember any earlier GC outcry against enosis, the illegal stationing of additional Greek soldiers on the island, the illegal National Guard (see Constitution Articles 129 onwards), the blockade imposed on TC enclaves, and the general mistreatment of TCs by armed semi-official thugs. The coup was as a struggle between two different groups of GCs - one who wanted enosis with the dictators in Athens immediately, and another group who wanted enosis with a democratic Greece at a later date.

As for "communicating with GCs at the forefront of the resistance to the coup", I suppose the Turkish ambassador at the UN could have had a word with its most public face, Makarios, but I seem to recall Makarios speaking in favour of enosis on several occasions. At the same time as letting us know the names of "the GCs in the forefront of the resistance to the coup", you might like to also suggest how Turkey should have contacted them - through a spirit medium? I have to laugh at the thought of Turkish radio making broadcasts calling upon the GCs of Cyprus to rise up and fight off the ...er Greek invaders!!

[denizaksulu]

Oracle wrote:

At no point did Turkey communicate with the GCs who were themselves already in the process of terminating the coup.

Turkey did not seek alliance with the GCs ... it did not intervene to assist, but it invaded to gain for itself.

Turkey may have communicated with US, and UK and even Greece ... but at no point did they communicate with the GCs who were at the forefront of the resistance to the coup.

So why did Turkey not only by-pass the GCs but also join in killing them?

On the evening of July 19th 1974, when Turkey's decision was made:
1. The GC President, Makarios, had fled the island.
2. Sampson was in power (he didn't resign until 23rd July).
3. All the major population centres in GC hands were held by the coupists.
4. CyBC was held by the coupists.
5. The airport was held by the coupists and additional Greek soldiers had been flown in.
6. More Greek soldiers were on their way to Cyprus by sea.
7. Coupists felt sufficiently in charge to move tanks and artillery (the anti-coupists having none by now) to surround TC areas.
This seems a long way from "the GCs ... already in the process of terminating the coup"

As for the GCs who Turkey should have allied themselves with, can you suggest who they might be? I can not remember any earlier GC outcry against enosis, the illegal stationing of additional Greek soldiers on the island, the illegal National Guard (see Constitution Articles 129 onwards), the blockade imposed on TC enclaves, and the general mistreatment of TCs by armed semi-official thugs. The coup was as a struggle between two different groups of GCs - one who wanted enosis with the dictators in Athens immediately, and another group who wanted enosis with a democratic Greece at a later date.

As for "communicating with GCs at the forefront of the resistance to the coup", I suppose the Turkish ambassador at the UN could have had a word with its most public face, Makarios, but I seem to recall Makarios speaking in favour of enosis on several occasions. At the same time as letting us know the names of "the GCs in the forefront of the resistance to the coup", you might like to also suggest how Turkey should have contacted them - through a spirit medium? I have to laugh at the thought of Turkish radio making broadcasts calling upon the GCs of Cyprus to rise up and fight off the ...er Greek invaders!!

Brilliant post Observer. So much common sense in it that obviously will be ignored, Not.

[Nikitas]

"I have to laugh at the thought of Turkish radio making broadcasts calling upon the GCs of Cyprus to rise up and fight off the ...er Greek invaders!!"

They were doing precisly that, from Monday till the morning of the invasion, they were resisting the coup.

Turkey had a golden opportunity to solve the problem. It could have arrested all those responsible for intercommunal violence and put them on trial. It could have imposed the agreement worked out by Clerides and Denktash in 1973, with separate municipalities and increased autonomy for the TCs, it could have demlitarised the island. Instead it ethnically cleansed the north and created a bigger problem with the settlers.

It did not even arrest those responsible for the Maratha and Sandalaris massacres even though they were trapped in the north after the second Attila operation and could have been caught. The point was conquest of the north all along and nothing else. Cynicism at its Turkish best.

[Tim Drayton]

Oracle wrote:

At no point did Turkey communicate with the GCs who were themselves already in the process of terminating the coup.

Turkey did not seek alliance with the GCs ... it did not intervene to assist, but it invaded to gain for itself.

Turkey may have communicated with US, and UK and even Greece ... but at no point did they communicate with the GCs who were at the forefront of the resistance to the coup.

So why did Turkey not only by-pass the GCs but also join in killing them?

On the evening of July 19th 1974, when Turkey's decision was made:
1. The GC President, Makarios, had fled the island.
2. Sampson was in power (he didn't resign until 23rd July).
3. All the major population centres in GC hands were held by the coupists.
4. CyBC was held by the coupists.
5. The airport was held by the coupists and additional Greek soldiers had been flown in.
6. More Greek soldiers were on their way to Cyprus by sea.
7. Coupists felt sufficiently in charge to move tanks and artillery (the anti-coupists having none by now) to surround TC areas.
This seems a long way from "the GCs ... already in the process of terminating the coup"

As for the GCs who Turkey should have allied themselves with, can you suggest who they might be? I can not remember any earlier GC outcry against enosis, the illegal stationing of additional Greek soldiers on the island, the illegal National Guard (see Constitution Articles 129 onwards), the blockade imposed on TC enclaves, and the general mistreatment of TCs by armed semi-official thugs. The coup was as a struggle between two different groups of GCs - one who wanted enosis with the dictators in Athens immediately, and another group who wanted enosis with a democratic Greece at a later date.

As for "communicating with GCs at the forefront of the resistance to the coup", I suppose the Turkish ambassador at the UN could have had a word with its most public face, Makarios, but I seem to recall Makarios speaking in favour of enosis on several occasions. At the same time as letting us know the names of "the GCs in the forefront of the resistance to the coup", you might like to also suggest how Turkey should have contacted them - through a spirit medium? I have to laugh at the thought of Turkish radio making broadcasts calling upon the GCs of Cyprus to rise up and fight off the ...er Greek invaders!!

"The GCs in the forefront to the resistance to the coup" were, to the best of my knowledge, mainly members of the AKEL and EDEK political parties. Believe it or not, these parties could be contacted by telephone at the time in Cyprus. Why should a spirit medium be necessary?

A further point to consider is that the coup did not come out of the blue. Newspaper columns had been rife with speculation for many months prior to the event as to when (not if) the coup would take place. The Turkish Republic had ample opportunity to coordinate with forces who were likely to oppose the coup and draw up contingency plans if its prime aim had been to defend the independence and territorial integrity of the Republic.