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The Yin of Turks and the Yang of Cypriots .....

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby Oracle » Sun Mar 09, 2008 1:51 pm

Viewpoint wrote:
Oracle wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
humanist wrote:Oracle
What can we do to make Turkey see the light?


My dear oracle, the more time I spend reading posts on this forum I am beginning to believe that Turkey ids not the enemy but the Turkish speaking Cypriots.

It is beyond me how so called compatriots can and do feel okay with occupying homes that do not belong to them, support the regime that promotes thia and furthermore indulge Turkey to continue violating human rights infact they are violating human rights of their compatriots whom they view as "pigs" as one members described Greek speaking Cypriots.


Do you think it any different from our "compatriots" that turned a blind eye to our suffering in 1963 to 1974? without the benefit you enjoy today, who do think is worse off? the GCs of today or the TCs of the past??? please try to dig deep into your consience and start seeing the reality of the situation.


You gave up "compatriotship" in 1963 ... when you declared yourselves enemies of Cyprus by wanting what was best for TCs rather than what was best for Cyprus and hence all the people of Cyprus in the long term.

At least have the decency to admit that your never were patriots of Cyprus ... merely the invaders who took a back seat to the British for a Century and then wanted Cyprus back to rule once again ...

It is the reason you ignore the will of the majority of the people on Cyprus ... precisely because you retain the Invader-Mentality ...

You do not know the meaning of "compatriot" ... you have always been invaders, never compatriots. You use the label only when it suits you.


Rubbish, you stabbed us in the back when you did not accept the Supreme court judgement against you and forced us at gunpoint out of government then when we had the courage to return you placed the Akritas plan obstacle in front of us.

The TCs withdrew from government in 1963 because they wanted to oppose reform, and to be able to continue with Taksim, to divide the island ... not Democratise it, as was right.

What kind of patriots are these that destroy the country they live in, every time they fear losing overgenerous allowances, to the judgement of a fair and Democratic distribution?
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Postby denizaksulu » Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:51 pm

boomerang wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
boomerang wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
boomerang wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:Its like being let down by your neighbour who turns a blind eye during your time of suffering and then wants you buried alive and out or the way so that they can gift your homeland to Greece, would you side with such a neighbour who turned a blind eye for 11 years or woudl you grab the hand of hope and survival.


You weren't the only one that was terrorised...you make it sound that everyone was agianst the tcs, which is a long way from the truth...

If all the gcs were against the tcs you wouldn't have survived the onslaught...It would have been over within 2 weeks...

The straw that broke the camels back was the coup and enosis...we fought against the coup our worsed nightmare, and you back stabbed us...


After 11 years of GC domination and discrimination what did you expect us to do? support those that voted 99% for enosis.


You do you have to be so much of a dick...

It took place prior to the establishment of the RoC...The question was easy then...After 1960, people accepted the idea of not enosis, hence why the fighting during the coup....

You back stabber...

PS...get your dates and facts right before talking out of your ass...as per usual


99% changed their minds and decided to sign a constitution they had no intention of adhering to and you want us to believe you becuase you said you do not want enosis you tried to water down the consitituion by using Akritas all the for the sake of unity while dominating and distcriminating aginst TCs, well done we all believe you. Why is that the international community do not run to your rescue and kick out bad old Turkey??? just think about it for 2 minutes and you may be able to work out that they dont give a shit about GCsand think they are paying for their own mistakes, you played with a bomb and it went off in your face, then you blame everyone else but yourselves.


Oh...they don't give a shit you say...I say otherwise...look at who is got EU membership and who is knocking and can't come in...

Your ref and the akritas, whatever, are long gone...have you got anything else to bring to the table...if not here is
Image



I see lots of holes in it B........g :lol: Get my drift?
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Postby Viewpoint » Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:55 pm

Oracle wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
Oracle wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
humanist wrote:Oracle
What can we do to make Turkey see the light?


My dear oracle, the more time I spend reading posts on this forum I am beginning to believe that Turkey ids not the enemy but the Turkish speaking Cypriots.

It is beyond me how so called compatriots can and do feel okay with occupying homes that do not belong to them, support the regime that promotes thia and furthermore indulge Turkey to continue violating human rights infact they are violating human rights of their compatriots whom they view as "pigs" as one members described Greek speaking Cypriots.


Do you think it any different from our "compatriots" that turned a blind eye to our suffering in 1963 to 1974? without the benefit you enjoy today, who do think is worse off? the GCs of today or the TCs of the past??? please try to dig deep into your consience and start seeing the reality of the situation.


You gave up "compatriotship" in 1963 ... when you declared yourselves enemies of Cyprus by wanting what was best for TCs rather than what was best for Cyprus and hence all the people of Cyprus in the long term.

At least have the decency to admit that your never were patriots of Cyprus ... merely the invaders who took a back seat to the British for a Century and then wanted Cyprus back to rule once again ...

It is the reason you ignore the will of the majority of the people on Cyprus ... precisely because you retain the Invader-Mentality ...

You do not know the meaning of "compatriot" ... you have always been invaders, never compatriots. You use the label only when it suits you.


Rubbish, you stabbed us in the back when you did not accept the Supreme court judgement against you and forced us at gunpoint out of government then when we had the courage to return you placed the Akritas plan obstacle in front of us.

The TCs withdrew from government in 1963 because they wanted to oppose reform, and to be able to continue with Taksim, to divide the island ... not Democratise it, as was right.

What kind of patriots are these that destroy the country they live in, every time they fear losing overgenerous allowances, to the judgement of a fair and Democratic distribution?


Kindly tell us about the supreme court judgement and why the GCs did not adhere to it? why did they take things into their own hands and disrespect a decision from the highest authority?
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Postby Oracle » Sun Mar 09, 2008 7:16 pm

Viewpoint wrote:
Oracle wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
Oracle wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
humanist wrote:Oracle
What can we do to make Turkey see the light?


My dear oracle, the more time I spend reading posts on this forum I am beginning to believe that Turkey ids not the enemy but the Turkish speaking Cypriots.

It is beyond me how so called compatriots can and do feel okay with occupying homes that do not belong to them, support the regime that promotes thia and furthermore indulge Turkey to continue violating human rights infact they are violating human rights of their compatriots whom they view as "pigs" as one members described Greek speaking Cypriots.


Do you think it any different from our "compatriots" that turned a blind eye to our suffering in 1963 to 1974? without the benefit you enjoy today, who do think is worse off? the GCs of today or the TCs of the past??? please try to dig deep into your consience and start seeing the reality of the situation.


You gave up "compatriotship" in 1963 ... when you declared yourselves enemies of Cyprus by wanting what was best for TCs rather than what was best for Cyprus and hence all the people of Cyprus in the long term.

At least have the decency to admit that your never were patriots of Cyprus ... merely the invaders who took a back seat to the British for a Century and then wanted Cyprus back to rule once again ...

It is the reason you ignore the will of the majority of the people on Cyprus ... precisely because you retain the Invader-Mentality ...

You do not know the meaning of "compatriot" ... you have always been invaders, never compatriots. You use the label only when it suits you.


Rubbish, you stabbed us in the back when you did not accept the Supreme court judgement against you and forced us at gunpoint out of government then when we had the courage to return you placed the Akritas plan obstacle in front of us.

The TCs withdrew from government in 1963 because they wanted to oppose reform, and to be able to continue with Taksim, to divide the island ... not Democratise it, as was right.

What kind of patriots are these that destroy the country they live in, every time they fear losing overgenerous allowances, to the judgement of a fair and Democratic distribution?


Kindly tell us about the supreme court judgement and why the GCs did not adhere to it? why did they take things into their own hands and disrespect a decision from the highest authority?

Well as a survivor from the fallout of this and Turkey's rapid response to bomb and Napalm my area ... I will forever be sickened by the failure of the TCs to observe Kucuk's recommendations for the TC community to remain calm since he was the one closest to Makarios and knew that the TC community, if behaving like patriotic citizens and listening to their President would allow the reformation of the constitution to a form more favourable in the long-term to all.

The President had executive power with the right to reference, recourse and veto the Supreme Constitutional Court. Forsthoff's resignation was an indication that he had made the wrong decision anyway and his ego did not allow him to continue in his capacity as Court President.

The Supreme Court was as flawed in design as the Constitution was ... so why should its decisions be observed by a President that was setting out to improve what the Imperialist, Colonialist Powers had decided was right for the Cypriots whilst they were effectively enslaved?

So my question to you is why did the TC community ignore Kucuk's call for calm?

Why did the TC community turn against their President and their country?

Why did they sow the seeds for the bombardments by Turkey that left so many of my relatives dead or traumatised... and scores dead even by Napalm?

And finally how does any of this justify what Turkey is currently doing to 200,000 GCs by keeping them from their homes and occupying virtually half of the Island?
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Postby Viewpoint » Mon Mar 10, 2008 1:31 am

Oracle wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
Oracle wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
Oracle wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
humanist wrote:Oracle
What can we do to make Turkey see the light?


My dear oracle, the more time I spend reading posts on this forum I am beginning to believe that Turkey ids not the enemy but the Turkish speaking Cypriots.

It is beyond me how so called compatriots can and do feel okay with occupying homes that do not belong to them, support the regime that promotes thia and furthermore indulge Turkey to continue violating human rights infact they are violating human rights of their compatriots whom they view as "pigs" as one members described Greek speaking Cypriots.


Do you think it any different from our "compatriots" that turned a blind eye to our suffering in 1963 to 1974? without the benefit you enjoy today, who do think is worse off? the GCs of today or the TCs of the past??? please try to dig deep into your consience and start seeing the reality of the situation.


You gave up "compatriotship" in 1963 ... when you declared yourselves enemies of Cyprus by wanting what was best for TCs rather than what was best for Cyprus and hence all the people of Cyprus in the long term.

At least have the decency to admit that your never were patriots of Cyprus ... merely the invaders who took a back seat to the British for a Century and then wanted Cyprus back to rule once again ...

It is the reason you ignore the will of the majority of the people on Cyprus ... precisely because you retain the Invader-Mentality ...

You do not know the meaning of "compatriot" ... you have always been invaders, never compatriots. You use the label only when it suits you.


Rubbish, you stabbed us in the back when you did not accept the Supreme court judgement against you and forced us at gunpoint out of government then when we had the courage to return you placed the Akritas plan obstacle in front of us.

The TCs withdrew from government in 1963 because they wanted to oppose reform, and to be able to continue with Taksim, to divide the island ... not Democratise it, as was right.

What kind of patriots are these that destroy the country they live in, every time they fear losing overgenerous allowances, to the judgement of a fair and Democratic distribution?


Kindly tell us about the supreme court judgement and why the GCs did not adhere to it? why did they take things into their own hands and disrespect a decision from the highest authority?

Well as a survivor from the fallout of this and Turkey's rapid response to bomb and Napalm my area ... I will forever be sickened by the failure of the TCs to observe Kucuk's recommendations for the TC community to remain calm since he was the one closest to Makarios and knew that the TC community, if behaving like patriotic citizens and listening to their President would allow the reformation of the constitution to a form more favourable in the long-term to all.

The President had executive power with the right to reference, recourse and veto the Supreme Constitutional Court. Forsthoff's resignation was an indication that he had made the wrong decision anyway and his ego did not allow him to continue in his capacity as Court President.

The Supreme Court was as flawed in design as the Constitution was ... so why should its decisions be observed by a President that was setting out to improve what the Imperialist, Colonialist Powers had decided was right for the Cypriots whilst they were effectively enslaved?

So my question to you is why did the TC community ignore Kucuk's call for calm?

Why did the TC community turn against their President and their country?

Why did they sow the seeds for the bombardments by Turkey that left so many of my relatives dead or traumatised... and scores dead even by Napalm?

And finally how does any of this justify what Turkey is currently doing to 200,000 GCs by keeping them from their homes and occupying virtually half of the Island?



So any supreme court decision makarios didnt like he overturned, how democratic and TC friendly. So what was to stop makarios doing what ever he wished against the TCs which he inevatably did by discriminating and persecuting TCs which led to TCs living in ghettos. Its was at this time that we realized the true objective of the GCs was to water down and wipe out TCs constitutional rights so that could have clear path to gifting our contry to Greece, so we had to fight back with everything we had and our biggest strength was Turkey whom you thought would never intervene, wrong again.

Turkey will continuing what we want her to do and that is to keep the peace until we have resolved matters and agree a solution, why cant you get that into your thick skull.
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Postby Oracle » Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:45 am

Viewpoint wrote:
Oracle wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
Oracle wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
Oracle wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
humanist wrote:Oracle
What can we do to make Turkey see the light?


My dear oracle, the more time I spend reading posts on this forum I am beginning to believe that Turkey ids not the enemy but the Turkish speaking Cypriots.

It is beyond me how so called compatriots can and do feel okay with occupying homes that do not belong to them, support the regime that promotes thia and furthermore indulge Turkey to continue violating human rights infact they are violating human rights of their compatriots whom they view as "pigs" as one members described Greek speaking Cypriots.


Do you think it any different from our "compatriots" that turned a blind eye to our suffering in 1963 to 1974? without the benefit you enjoy today, who do think is worse off? the GCs of today or the TCs of the past??? please try to dig deep into your consience and start seeing the reality of the situation.


You gave up "compatriotship" in 1963 ... when you declared yourselves enemies of Cyprus by wanting what was best for TCs rather than what was best for Cyprus and hence all the people of Cyprus in the long term.

At least have the decency to admit that your never were patriots of Cyprus ... merely the invaders who took a back seat to the British for a Century and then wanted Cyprus back to rule once again ...

It is the reason you ignore the will of the majority of the people on Cyprus ... precisely because you retain the Invader-Mentality ...

You do not know the meaning of "compatriot" ... you have always been invaders, never compatriots. You use the label only when it suits you.


Rubbish, you stabbed us in the back when you did not accept the Supreme court judgement against you and forced us at gunpoint out of government then when we had the courage to return you placed the Akritas plan obstacle in front of us.

The TCs withdrew from government in 1963 because they wanted to oppose reform, and to be able to continue with Taksim, to divide the island ... not Democratise it, as was right.

What kind of patriots are these that destroy the country they live in, every time they fear losing overgenerous allowances, to the judgement of a fair and Democratic distribution?


Kindly tell us about the supreme court judgement and why the GCs did not adhere to it? why did they take things into their own hands and disrespect a decision from the highest authority?

Well as a survivor from the fallout of this and Turkey's rapid response to bomb and Napalm my area ... I will forever be sickened by the failure of the TCs to observe Kucuk's recommendations for the TC community to remain calm since he was the one closest to Makarios and knew that the TC community, if behaving like patriotic citizens and listening to their President would allow the reformation of the constitution to a form more favourable in the long-term to all.

The President had executive power with the right to reference, recourse and veto the Supreme Constitutional Court. Forsthoff's resignation was an indication that he had made the wrong decision anyway and his ego did not allow him to continue in his capacity as Court President.

The Supreme Court was as flawed in design as the Constitution was ... so why should its decisions be observed by a President that was setting out to improve what the Imperialist, Colonialist Powers had decided was right for the Cypriots whilst they were effectively enslaved?

So my question to you is why did the TC community ignore Kucuk's call for calm?

Why did the TC community turn against their President and their country?

Why did they sow the seeds for the bombardments by Turkey that left so many of my relatives dead or traumatised... and scores dead even by Napalm?

And finally how does any of this justify what Turkey is currently doing to 200,000 GCs by keeping them from their homes and occupying virtually half of the Island?



So any supreme court decision makarios didnt like he overturned, how democratic and TC friendly. So what was to stop makarios doing what ever he wished against the TCs which he inevatably did by discriminating and persecuting TCs which led to TCs living in ghettos. Its was at this time that we realized the true objective of the GCs was to water down and wipe out TCs constitutional rights so that could have clear path to gifting our contry to Greece, so we had to fight back with everything we had and our biggest strength was Turkey whom you thought would never intervene, wrong again.

Turkey will continuing what we want her to do and that is to keep the peace until we have resolved matters and agree a solution, why cant you get that into your thick skull.


Kucuk would have had the same rights to "veto" as Makarios.

It was precisely because of how flawed and un-Democratic the 1960 Agreement was that Makarios sought to improve it.

I think Kucuk knew this and he tried to calm the TCs ... but they did not listen to their "leader" because they wanted to push for Partition ....

Well whatever the means, and whatever opposition the GCs managed to master against the might of the "TC-marionettes of Turkey" .... you got what you were after all along .... nearly half the island.

There' no point you going on about any resistance to this plan that the GCs may have offered to the TCs.

You can have no sympathy for any complaints you may have against the GCs ..... because it is clearer now, they were fighting pending Taksism all along ...

Your (temporary) Victory is tantamount and proof to that goal ...

Enjoy it and stop complaining that we did not let you have our island more easily but dared instead, to put up some resistance against your violence to us ....
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Postby denizaksulu » Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:34 am

Oracle wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
Oracle wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
Oracle wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
humanist wrote:Oracle
What can we do to make Turkey see the light?


My dear oracle, the more time I spend reading posts on this forum I am beginning to believe that Turkey ids not the enemy but the Turkish speaking Cypriots.

It is beyond me how so called compatriots can and do feel okay with occupying homes that do not belong to them, support the regime that promotes thia and furthermore indulge Turkey to continue violating human rights infact they are violating human rights of their compatriots whom they view as "pigs" as one members described Greek speaking Cypriots.


Do you think it any different from our "compatriots" that turned a blind eye to our suffering in 1963 to 1974? without the benefit you enjoy today, who do think is worse off? the GCs of today or the TCs of the past??? please try to dig deep into your consience and start seeing the reality of the situation.


You gave up "compatriotship" in 1963 ... when you declared yourselves enemies of Cyprus by wanting what was best for TCs rather than what was best for Cyprus and hence all the people of Cyprus in the long term.

At least have the decency to admit that your never were patriots of Cyprus ... merely the invaders who took a back seat to the British for a Century and then wanted Cyprus back to rule once again ...

It is the reason you ignore the will of the majority of the people on Cyprus ... precisely because you retain the Invader-Mentality ...

You do not know the meaning of "compatriot" ... you have always been invaders, never compatriots. You use the label only when it suits you.


Rubbish, you stabbed us in the back when you did not accept the Supreme court judgement against you and forced us at gunpoint out of government then when we had the courage to return you placed the Akritas plan obstacle in front of us.

The TCs withdrew from government in 1963 because they wanted to oppose reform, and to be able to continue with Taksim, to divide the island ... not Democratise it, as was right.

What kind of patriots are these that destroy the country they live in, every time they fear losing overgenerous allowances, to the judgement of a fair and Democratic distribution?


Kindly tell us about the supreme court judgement and why the GCs did not adhere to it? why did they take things into their own hands and disrespect a decision from the highest authority?

Well as a survivor from the fallout of this and Turkey's rapid response to bomb and Napalm my area ... I will forever be sickened by the failure of the TCs to observe Kucuk's recommendations for the TC community to remain calm since he was the one closest to Makarios and knew that the TC community, if behaving like patriotic citizens and listening to their President would allow the reformation of the constitution to a form more favourable in the long-term to all.

The President had executive power with the right to reference, recourse and veto the Supreme Constitutional Court. Forsthoff's resignation was an indication that he had made the wrong decision anyway and his ego did not allow him to continue in his capacity as Court President.

The Supreme Court was as flawed in design as the Constitution was ... so why should its decisions be observed by a President that was setting out to improve what the Imperialist, Colonialist Powers had decided was right for the Cypriots whilst they were effectively enslaved?

So my question to you is why did the TC community ignore Kucuk's call for calm?
Why did the TC community turn against their President and their country?

Why did they sow the seeds for the bombardments by Turkey that left so many of my relatives dead or traumatised... and scores dead even by Napalm?

And finally how does any of this justify what Turkey is currently doing to 200,000 GCs by keeping them from their homes and occupying virtually half of the Island?



OrPh, were you aware of what was going on in 1963?

Dr. Kucuk call to 'remain calm' was in response to the intercommunal strife going on all over the island. If you remeber rightly (but how can you, you was but a little girl) the Turkish sector of Nicosia was surrounded by GC irregulars and other armed GC forces. The only outside connection was by helicopters bringing in murdered TC villagers for burial in a non-existent cemetery. What are you ranting on about woman?
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Postby Oracle » Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:57 am

denizaksulu wrote:
Oracle wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
Oracle wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
Oracle wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
humanist wrote:Oracle
What can we do to make Turkey see the light?


My dear oracle, the more time I spend reading posts on this forum I am beginning to believe that Turkey ids not the enemy but the Turkish speaking Cypriots.

It is beyond me how so called compatriots can and do feel okay with occupying homes that do not belong to them, support the regime that promotes thia and furthermore indulge Turkey to continue violating human rights infact they are violating human rights of their compatriots whom they view as "pigs" as one members described Greek speaking Cypriots.


Do you think it any different from our "compatriots" that turned a blind eye to our suffering in 1963 to 1974? without the benefit you enjoy today, who do think is worse off? the GCs of today or the TCs of the past??? please try to dig deep into your consience and start seeing the reality of the situation.


You gave up "compatriotship" in 1963 ... when you declared yourselves enemies of Cyprus by wanting what was best for TCs rather than what was best for Cyprus and hence all the people of Cyprus in the long term.

At least have the decency to admit that your never were patriots of Cyprus ... merely the invaders who took a back seat to the British for a Century and then wanted Cyprus back to rule once again ...

It is the reason you ignore the will of the majority of the people on Cyprus ... precisely because you retain the Invader-Mentality ...

You do not know the meaning of "compatriot" ... you have always been invaders, never compatriots. You use the label only when it suits you.


Rubbish, you stabbed us in the back when you did not accept the Supreme court judgement against you and forced us at gunpoint out of government then when we had the courage to return you placed the Akritas plan obstacle in front of us.

The TCs withdrew from government in 1963 because they wanted to oppose reform, and to be able to continue with Taksim, to divide the island ... not Democratise it, as was right.

What kind of patriots are these that destroy the country they live in, every time they fear losing overgenerous allowances, to the judgement of a fair and Democratic distribution?


Kindly tell us about the supreme court judgement and why the GCs did not adhere to it? why did they take things into their own hands and disrespect a decision from the highest authority?

Well as a survivor from the fallout of this and Turkey's rapid response to bomb and Napalm my area ... I will forever be sickened by the failure of the TCs to observe Kucuk's recommendations for the TC community to remain calm since he was the one closest to Makarios and knew that the TC community, if behaving like patriotic citizens and listening to their President would allow the reformation of the constitution to a form more favourable in the long-term to all.

The President had executive power with the right to reference, recourse and veto the Supreme Constitutional Court. Forsthoff's resignation was an indication that he had made the wrong decision anyway and his ego did not allow him to continue in his capacity as Court President.

The Supreme Court was as flawed in design as the Constitution was ... so why should its decisions be observed by a President that was setting out to improve what the Imperialist, Colonialist Powers had decided was right for the Cypriots whilst they were effectively enslaved?

So my question to you is why did the TC community ignore Kucuk's call for calm?
Why did the TC community turn against their President and their country?

Why did they sow the seeds for the bombardments by Turkey that left so many of my relatives dead or traumatised... and scores dead even by Napalm?

And finally how does any of this justify what Turkey is currently doing to 200,000 GCs by keeping them from their homes and occupying virtually half of the Island?



OrPh, were you aware of what was going on in 1963?

Dr. Kucuk call to 'remain calm' was in response to the intercommunal strife going on all over the island. If you remeber rightly (but how can you, you was but a little girl) the Turkish sector of Nicosia was surrounded by GC irregulars and other armed GC forces. The only outside connection was by helicopters bringing in murdered TC villagers for burial in a non-existent cemetery. What are you ranting on about woman?


It was VP who brought up this period of History .... I was discussing today with Humanist.

But the TCs went on the rampage which is why Kucuk called for calm from his community ... Why?

It went unheeded, and the rest is unfortunate (for the GCs) ...

How different it may all have been if the TCs did not set off on this path ... but the outcome is all they were interested in!

The TCs vision of a greater good that would make any suffering worthwhile ... the division of the island and setting up their own "state" ... was the only outcome they desired.

..... was it worth fighting for?
Well you have what you set out to get! .... for the moment!
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Postby denizaksulu » Mon Mar 10, 2008 11:28 am

It was VP who brought up this period of History .... I was discussing today with Humanist.

But the TCs went on the rampage which is why Kucuk called for calm from his community ... Why?

It went unheeded, and the rest is unfortunate (for the GCs) ...

How different it may all have been if the TCs did not set off on this path ... but the outcome is all they were interested in!

The TCs vision of a greater good that would make any suffering worthwhile ... the division of the island and setting up their own "state" ... was the only outcome they desired.

..... was it worth fighting for?
Well you have what you set out to get! .... for the moment!




OrPh writes:It was VP who brought up this period of History .... I was discussing today with Humanist.

But the TCs went on the rampage which is why Kucuk called for calm from his community ... Why?

It went unheeded, and the rest is unfortunate (for the GCs) ...

How different it may all have been if the TCs did not set off on this path ... but the outcome is all they were interested in!

The TCs vision of a greater good that would make any suffering worthwhile ... the division of the island and setting up their own "state" ... was the only outcome they desired.

..... was it worth fighting for?
Well you have what you set out to get! .... for the moment!




Or Ph, what I will say will be the last last as it has been said numerous times before.

Had the idea and the wish for Enosis not been on the GC agenda, the TCs were happy to live on this beautiful island together, hand in hand in peace.
The idea of Partition was the only option. You must be blind not to see that.

Can you show me anywhere where Partition was thought of before Enosis?
I thought not.

Regards
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Postby zan » Mon Mar 10, 2008 11:31 am

The Bloody Co-existence of
Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots
(1963-1974)
George Nakratzas
Any nationalist expansionist policy can be carried out only by means of war. And the people have to be psychologically prepared for this by a propaganda device, which idealises their own acts and demonizes those of the enemy.
Greece has employed this device in the past, and continues to do so today, one typical exponent being the new Archbishop of Athens, Christodoulos, who has publicly, in the presence of the President of the Hellenic Republic, referred to the Turks as 'the eastern barbarians'.
It's a well-known fact that the Turks treated the Greek minority in Istanbul with great barbarity in 1955; and it is equally well known that dozens, if not hundreds, of Greek Cypriot captives were executed in Cyprus in 1974. Rauf Denktash has publicly admitted it.
But what the young people of Greece have no idea of is that Turkish Cypriots were murdered by the parastatal groups run by Sampson, Yeorgadzis, and Lyssaridis between 1963 and 1967. It should be borne in mind that at that time the Cypriot government was responsible for safeguarding the life, the honour, and the property of all Cypriot citizens, irrespective of national or religious identity.
A somewhat more detailed analysis of the Greek and foreign literature on the events in Cyprus in this period may fill the gap in young modern Greeks' knowledge.
The invasion of Cyprus by the Turkish army in 1974 resulted in the partition of the island into two zones, a northern zone populated by Turkish Cypriots and Turkish settlers and a southern zone populated by Greek Cypriots. Since then, the Cypriot government has steadfastly demanded the withdrawal of the Turkish occupation forces so that Cyprus may be restored to its former status. However, a study of the relations between the two communities between 1963 and 1967 may tell us something about the quality of their 'peaceful co-existence'.
Regarding the Greek Cypriots' supposed intention to live in peace and equality with the Turkish Cypriots, an extract from a speech by Archbishop Makarios in the village of Panayia is particularly telling. It is quoted by Rustem and Brother, according to whom, on 4 September 1962, Makarios said: Until this small Turkish community, forming a part of the Turkish race, which has been the terrible enemy of Hellenism, is expelled, the duty of the heroes of EOKA can never be considered as terminated. (1, p. 47)
A letter from Denktash protesting about the Panayia speech was never answered.
Fourteen months later, on 30 November 1963, Makarios submitted his famous thirteen-point amendment of the Constitution, in direct contravention, as he himself publicly admitted, of the Geneva Convention (2, p. 56). The Geneva Convention ruled out any unilateral change to the Cypriot Constitution, as also any partition of the island or unification with Greece. It should be borne in mind that even today the Republic of Cyprus derives its legitimacy from the Geneva Convention.
Makarios's proposed changes would have meant that the Turkish Vice-President would lose his right of veto and would be elected not by the Turkish Cypriots but by the parliamentary majority, i.e. the Greek Cypriots. These two articles, together with another nine similar ones, would have lost the Turkish Cypriots the rights which the Cypriot Constitution had guaranteed them until then.
The Cypriot mass media presented the Turkish Cypriots' refusal to accept this unilateral amendment of the Constitution as 'Turkish insubordination to the state', which was quite untrue, because, as we have seen, from a legal point of view it was not the Turkish Cypriots, but Makarios who had made a unilateral, arbitrary attempt to violate the Constitution.
General Karayannis, Commander of the Cypriot National Guard,
confirmed that it was not the Turks who initiated the so-called insubordination in an interview in Ethnikos Kirix on 15 June 1965:
When the Turks objected to the amendment of the Constitution, Archbishop Makarios put his plan into effect and the Greek attack began in December 1963. (3, p. 87)
That Makarios had a premeditated plan to exterminate the Turks is also indirectly confirmed by the Communist Party of Cyprus, which published the following critique of the Archbishop in issue No. 57 of its organ Neos Dimokratis in July 1979: Armed by Makarios, Mr Lyssaridis . . . formed his own armed bands, which, in 1963-4, together with those of Yeorgadzis and Sampson, waged a 'liberation struggle' against the Turkish Cypriots and as a result brought us the Green Line and, eventually, Attila. (2, p. 67)
That the sole purpose of the so-called liberation struggle was to force the Turkish Cypriots to yield to Makarios's unilateral amendment of the Constitution is also officially revealed by an article in the Cypriot newspaper Haravyi, which was published on the second day of the clashes, 22 December 1963: And since it is accepted that the tension is the result of the climate created by the Zurich and London agreements and the undemocratic terms of the Constitution,... the Turkish government,. . . which is inflaming the tempers of our fanatical compatriots, and the Turkish Cypriot leadership must reconsider their negative attitude and approach the President of the Republic's proposals in a constructive manner. (2, p. 73)
The Greek Cypriot assault on the Turkish Cypriots started
on 21 December 1963, when Greek Cypriot police officers shot and killed a Turkish Cypriot couple in the Turkish sector of Nicosia while attempting to carry out a spot check.
The most serious attack was the assault on Omorfita, a suburb of Nicosia inhabited by 5,000 Turkish Cypriots. The Greek Cypriot parastatals were headed by Nikos Sampson, whom the Greek Cypriot press henceforth dubbed 'the conqueror of Omorfita'. The material damage wreaked by Sampson's parastatals in Omorfita is described in the UN Secretary General's report No. S/5950 to the Security Council, which states that 50 houses were totally destroyed and 240 partially destroyed (4, para. 180). As for the human losses, 4,500 Turkish Cypriots managed to flee to the Turkish sector of Nicosia and 500 were captured and taken to Kykkos School in Nicosia, where they were held with 150 Turkish Cypriots from the village of Kumsal.
On Christmas day, 150 of the 700 or so captives were selected and dragged away, and the sound of shooting followed.
Gibbons reports that an English teacher at Kykkos School told the High Commission that she had seen the results of the shooting; whereupon, for security reasons, the British administration put her on the first plane to London, because she was the only eye witness to what_ha3J§ppened (5, p. 139). As for the 150 captives, the Greek Cypriot authorities told their families for many years that they should regard them as missing. Other major assaults by the Greek Cypriots near Nicosia targeted the villages of Mathiati, Ayos Vassilios, and Kumsal. In Kumsal, the Greek Cypriot parastatals executed 150 people in cold blood.
The most apalling photograph, which went round the world, showed three small children and their mother lying dead in a pool of blood in the bath in their home. These unfortunates were the family of Major Ilhan, an officer in the Turkish expeditionary force in Nicosia (3, p. 95).
In the surgical clinic in Nicosia Hospital, the Greek Cypriots dragged from their beds twenty-two Turkish Cypriot convalescents, all trace of whom vanished for ever (3, 91).
Government and parastatal armed forces continued their attacks on the Turkish Cypriots over the next four months. One notable incident, which almost provoked a Greek-Turkish war, took place at Famagusta, where, on 11 May 1964, three Greek officers and a Greek Cypriot policeman took their car into the Turkish sector, possibly intending to make a display of power. A Turkish Cypriot policeman attempted to obstruct them, there was an exchange of fire, and in the end two of the Greek officers, the Greek Cypriot policeman, and a passing Turkish Cypriot lay dead. Two days later, the Greek Cypriots abducted thirty-two Turkish Cypriots, who were never seen again. The abduction is confirmed by the UN Secretary General's report No. S/5764 (6, para. 93).
Lastly, on 9 August 1964, there was the attack on the Turkish Cypriot enclave of Kokkina-Mansoura, where the Turkish air force ended the hostilities by dropping napalm bombs.
The UN Secretary General's report No. S/5950, para. 142, tells us that, during the period of the hostilities — from 21 December 1963 to 8 June 1964 — 43 Greek Cypriots and 232 Turkish Cypriots disappeared and have been officially posted as missing ever since. The missing Turkish Cypriots include the 150 hostages from Kykkos School in Nicosia and the 32 abductees from Famagusta.
The Cypriot media constantly show pictures of Greek Cypriot women holding photographs of their nearest and dearest and seeking information about their whereabouts; yet the Greek media have never shown similar pictures of Turkish Cypriot women seeking information about their own lost relations.
The termination of the Cypriot government's assaults on the Turkish Cypriots led to the creation of Turkish Cypriot enclaves, where the Turkish Cypriot refugees lived in wretched conditions for no less than eleven years. According to Kranidiotis, in Unfortified State: Cyprus 1960-74 (in Greek):
…these enclaves occupied 4.86 per cent of Cypriot territory Seeing that the Greek Cypriot armed bands were unable to assert themselves over the Turks,... on 26 December, Makarios was obliged to accept the Green Line. . . . Six large Turkish enclaves were formed,. . . which corresponded to 4.86 per cent of the territory of Cyprus. (2, p. 75)
From 1964 to 1967, owing to the restrictive measures imposed by the Greek Cypriot government, the day-to-day efforts of the confined Turkish Cypriots consisted exclusively in a struggle for survival. Apart from imposing an economic embargo on the enclaves, the Makarios administration also banned the supply of strategic commodities, such as cement, tractors, men's socks, and wollen clothing.
The imposition of the military dictatorship in Greece in 1967 heralded fresh problems for Cyprus. On 15 November 1967, Greek and Greek Cypriot forces armed with cannon, machine-guns, and bazookas attacked the lightly armed Turkish Cypriots in the villages of Ayos Theodoros and Kofinou in the Larnaca area. As the defences crumbled, the Greek Cypriots killed twenty-seven Turkish Cypriots (3, p. 139).
The incident brought Greece and Turkey to the brink of war, which was avoided only when the illicit Greek division and General Grivas were recalled from Cyprus.
The slaughter and looting at Kofinou were confirmed in the Greek parliament on 21 February 1986 by Andreas Papandreou, who spoke, inter alia, of the 'great provocation of 15 November 1967,' and added that the operation had been 'ordered by the Supreme Command of the Greek Armed Forces [and] killing and looting took place' (2, p. 33).
The military junta brought its political career to an end in 1974 with the invasion of Cyprus and an attempt on Makarios's life. We shall not discuss subsequent events here, because both warring sides perpetrated crimes against humanity during that period.
Even now, both the Greek and the Turkish propaganda do their best to convince us that such acts of barbarity were commited exclusively by the other side. But this sort of propaganda is mainly intended for domestic consumption.
What needs noting is that a war was fought between two nations in 1974, and it is usually the case in any war situation that criminal elements seize the opportunity to legitimise acts that would land them in prison in peace time. The reason why the blame lies so heavily on the Greek Cypriot side is the fact that, between 1963 and 1967, the Cypriot government was exclusively responsible for any acts committed by Greek Cypriot government or parastatal armed forces. During the forthcoming talks on the island's entry into the European Union, the Republic of Cyprus will have two questions to answer.
Since the Cypriot government refuses
1) either to recognise the Turkish Cypriot state
or
2) to countenance a loose Greek-Turkish Cypriot confederation.
Which of the two remaining solutions has it in mind"?
1) That the Turkish Cypriots should return to the villages in which they were living before 1963?
or
2) That the Turkish Cypriots should return to the enclaves in which they were confined for eleven years?
Literatur
1. Rustem, and Brother,. (1998) : Excerpta Cypria For Today
Edited by Andrew Faulds MP , Lefkosha-lstanbul-London
The Friends of North Cyprus Parliamentary Group
The House of Commons, London SW1, ISBN 9963-565-09-3
2. To Kypriako ke ta diethnistika kathikonta ellinokiprion epanastaton. 2nd Edition, Ekdosis “Erghatiki Dimokratia”, May 1989, Athens.
3. Oberling, P., (1982) : The Road to Bellapais, Social Science Monographs, Boulder
Distributed by Columbia University Press, New York, ISBN 88033-0000-7
4. Report of the Secretary-General to the Security Counsil on the United Nations
operation in Cyprus , Document S/5950, 10 September 1964.
5. Gibbons, H, S., (1997): The Genocide Files
Charles Bravos, Publishers, London , ISBN 0-9514464-2-8
6. Report of the Secretary-General to the Security Counsil on the United Nations
operation in Cyprus , Document S/5764, 15 Juni 1964.
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