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What went on between the 20/7 and 14/8 1974?

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby Kifeas » Mon Mar 10, 2008 5:38 pm

halil wrote:Me too hoping one day ICJ will handle the events in Cyprus frm 1963 -1974 ..... that everything will be come out all the criminals will be charged and fined. Insallah......Insallah ..... Insallah


Well, dear Halil, Turkey has had a great opportunity to have the ICJ examine both the events of 1963 -1974, on the basis of her claims vis-a-vie the "illegality" of the RoC after 1963, and also the RoC claims regarding the illegality of the 1974 Turkish invasion and subsequent occupation, had it accepted just one of the RoC invitations to proceed together to the ICJ. Turkey refused! Does this ring any bells to you? It does many to me, the loudest one being that Turkey doesn’t believe nor has faith in what she claims, both for the 1963-74 period and the 1974 invasion! She simply feels what every body else in the international community does, i.e. that she has no case to prove!
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Postby GreekForumer » Mon Mar 10, 2008 5:52 pm

halil wrote:Nikitas,
we are not finding excuses . read above links again .......
we are all know that we are trying to establish new state or states .....
You asking us why we didn't help to stop the coup attemps or something else.... you all know the conditions of the TC's before 74 . TC's villages were enclaved by who ?


NO! Not TCs! Why didn't The Republic of Turkey help the anti-coupists forces ?
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Postby Oracle » Mon Mar 10, 2008 5:58 pm

Wasn't Turkey meant to guarantee the safety of the whole Island .. i.e. both GCs and TCs?

ARTICLE 3
The Republic of Cyprus, Greece, Turkey and the United Kingdom undertake to consult and co-operate in the common defence of Cyprus.


... why did it choose to save only the TCs from the coupists, whilst itself joining in with the slaughter of the GCs when they were most vulnerable ... concentrating on protecting Cyprus from the coup and its after-effects?
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Postby 74LB » Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:18 pm

The TC's did not have a prayer of achieving anything (except their own slaughter) if they had decided to act in defence of Makarios and his supporters, and if anyone believes otherwise, then they must be bonkers !

The days immediately after 15 July 1974 saw TC's remain in their homes/villages (that is what was advised and I'm pretty certain the majority did just that) because of the uncertainty of what was going on.
My father was trapped in Limassol (he was a lorry driver delivering goods from Famagusta) for 3 or 4 days before he was allowed to make his way home (his fully loaded lorry was used as a barricade by the TC's).

This is the Turkish governments letter to the UN regarding the events of 15 July 1974 (UN doc S-11341 18Jul74) ..........

"I have received the message you sent me through Ambassador Olcay,
Permanent Representative of Turkey to the United Nations, (s/11336) in which
you express grave concern on the developments in Cyprus which took place on 15 July 1974.

"In the opinion of the Turkish Government a grave situation has been
created concerning the independence, territorial integrity and security of the
State of Cyprus as a result of the armed and bloody coup which took place
yesterday on the island.

"News to the effect that Greece, a signatory to the 1960 agreements which
established the State of Cyprus, is associated with or is even the initiator
of this bloody coup and the fact that these are confirmed by neutral and
reliable sources increases the gravity of this situation.

"The emergence of such a situation in the island creates another serious
problem regarding the protection of the security, rights and interests of the
Turkish community, which, in spite of all the efforts throughout the years by
the United Nations, could not be secured. The latest developments indicate
clearly that Greece, violating the existing agreements on Cyprus, has now
intervened against the independence, territorial integrity and security of
Cyprus, whose necessity to be protected is stressed in your message, which I
received yesterday.

"As is known, Greece had illegitimately kept military forces in Cyprus,
which in fact was upsetting the balance of forces between the Turkish and the
Greek Cypriot communities. The fact that these illegitimate forces were
prepared to take action against the independence and territorial integrity of
Cyprus was disclosed in a letter addressed by Archbishop Makarios to the Head of State of Greece.

"In fact Greece, which clandestinely had upset in its favour the balance
of forces, increased its forces to a level that made active intervention
possible and, following the coup it instigated yesterday in the island, brought
to power a person renowned for his unswerving dedication to the cause of
annexing the island to Greece (enosis) and his hatred for the Turks, a person
who is proud of his active participation in the massacre of the Turks during
the aggression which took place against the Turkish community in 1963.

"In view of the fact that no legitimate administration acceptable to the
two communities on an island-wide basis has existed for the past eleven years
for the Turkish community, there is no need under the present circumstances
to describe the insecurity felt by this community and the magnitude of the
threat it confronts as to its life and property when suddenly it finds itself
faced with an administration resulting from a coup.

"The dangerous developments referred to above have clearly proved how
justified and realistic were the warnings voiced for years by Turkey and the
Turkish community against the danger of an overt or covert enosis.

"I am confident that you would appreciate the very deep concern felt by
the Turkish Government, which bears definite responsibilities stemming from
international agreements for the security and the protection of all the legal
rights of the Turkish community as well as of the independence, territorial
integrity and security of Cyprus, and its inability to remain indifferent in
face of these grave developments. Furthermore, in view of the fact that no
parallel can be drawn between the attitude of Turkey, which by no means is
involved in these developments, and the attitude of a Member country which
is associated with and even the initiator of these developments, I assume that
your appeal to . . . those Governments which are closely connected with
Cyprus to exercise the maximum restraint and to avoid any action which might
give rise to further violence is in reality addressed to those whose esponsibility
in this subject leaves no doubt.

"In view of the urgency of the situation created by the developments I
have explained hereinabove and the immediate necessity for the adoption of at
least certain initial measures by the United Nations, which has particular
responsibilities on Cyprus, the following appear to have first priority:

"(1) To prevent the further deterioration of the balance of forces
already
heavily upset to the detriment of the Turkish community on the island;

"(2) To exert vigilance and take all necessary steps to prevent the
illegal entry
of military forces, weapons and ammunition into the island;

"( 3) To ensure, in the same framework that during the rotation today of
the Greek contingent stationed in the island in accordance with the 1960
Agreements, and which will be carried out on the basis of agreements the
number and quantity of the incoming and the outgoing military forces, weapons
and ammunition are in conformity with the provisions of the agreements.

"Moreover it is clear, in view of the relevant resolutions of the United
Nations and particularly the letter and spirit of the resolution of the
Security Council dated 4 March 1964, that recognition as 'the Government of
Cyprus' of the administration which proclaimed its assumption of power
following yesterday's coup is not possible.

"At present, so long as the overthrown administration is not capable of
maintaining its status at the United Nations, the only institution in Cyprus
having a legitimate constitutional base remains the Turkish-Cypriot
administration,
which continues to maintain, through the special representative
of the
Secretary-General and UNFICYP Commander, the sole legitimate relations envisaged
by the spirit and letter of the resolutions of the United Nations and particularly
by the resolution of 4 March 1964 and as such the Turkish-Cypriot
administration is more than ever dissociated from the Greek-Cypriot administration.

"Please accept, Mr. Secretary-General, the assurances of my highest consideration.

"Biilent ECEVIT
Prime Minister"
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Postby Viewpoint » Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:53 pm

Kifeas wrote:
halil wrote:Me too hoping one day ICJ will handle the events in Cyprus frm 1963 -1974 ..... that everything will be come out all the criminals will be charged and fined. Insallah......Insallah ..... Insallah


Well, dear Halil, Turkey has had a great opportunity to have the ICJ examine both the events of 1963 -1974, on the basis of her claims vis-a-vie the "illegality" of the RoC after 1963, and also the RoC claims regarding the illegality of the 1974 Turkish invasion and subsequent occupation, had it accepted just one of the RoC invitations to proceed together to the ICJ. Turkey refused! Does this ring any bells to you? It does many to me, the loudest one being that Turkey doesn’t believe nor has faith in what she claims, both for the 1963-74 period and the 1974 invasion! She simply feels what every body else in the international community does, i.e. that she has no case to prove!


You know full well why Turkey does not go to the ICJ, they do not recognize or subscribe to this body nor do the recognize the "RoC" in its current state.
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Postby Oracle » Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:55 pm

74LB wrote:The TC's did not have a prayer of achieving anything (except their own slaughter) if they had decided to act in defence of Makarios and his supporters, and if anyone believes otherwise, then they must be bonkers !

Leaving the TCs aside ... why did Turkey not only ignore the plight of the GCs that were effectively being "invaded" by the coupists ... but also went out of her way to slaughter them in the thousands, whilst they were obviously already weakened ... :(

.... thus effectively showing it cared more for the acquisition of Cyprus, than fulfilling its role as a guarantor.
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Postby Viewpoint » Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:56 pm

Nikitas wrote:Observer, if this:

"I think that we can all agree that there was a coup on 15th July 1974. It was exclusively a Greek/GC affair to bring about enosis. I suspect the desire for enosis still existed among a larger proportion of the GCs than is now admitted, although many did not want enosis with the government that ruled Greece at the time. "

Is your starting point then you are WRONG. The coup was NOT about Enosis, the majority of GCs did NOT want Enosis in 1974, the coup once established did NOT declare Enosis. This is a Turkish myth to justify the invasion, partition and practical annexation of northern Cyprus. It is a cheap excuse!


Where the hell were you educated??its like saying the Turkish army never intervened andd they are not here on the island its your imagination and you are totally wrong for fearing them.
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Postby Oracle » Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:58 pm

Viewpoint wrote:.....You know full well why Turkey does not go to the ICJ, they do not recognize or subscribe to this body nor do the recognize the "RoC" in its current state ....


.... how convenient!

It must be great to live in a Country that can opt out of anything that does not suit its requirements! ..... including Human Rights!
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Postby 74LB » Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:04 pm

Oracle wrote:
74LB wrote:The TC's did not have a prayer of achieving anything (except their own slaughter) if they had decided to act in defence of Makarios and his supporters, and if anyone believes otherwise, then they must be bonkers !

Leaving the TCs aside ... why did Turkey not only ignore the plight of the GCs that were effectively being "invaded" by the coupists ... but also went out of her way to slaughter them in the thousands, whilst they were obviously already weakened ... :(

.... thus effectively showing it cared more for the acquisition of Cyprus, than fulfilling its role as a guarantor.


I was in Famagusta at the time so cannot tell you what went on in Girne suffice to say that the landings of Turkish troops must have been horrendous for all involved. Once the shooting started, no doubt all hell broke loose.

I know that my village just on the outskirts of Famagusta was attacked by Greeks/GC's with tanks, mortars and gunfire on the morning of 20th July 74 and there was not a single Turkish soldier in sight.
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Postby Viewpoint » Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:08 pm

quote="Oracle"]
Viewpoint wrote:.....You know full well why Turkey does not go to the ICJ, they do not recognize or subscribe to this body nor do the recognize the "RoC" in its current state ....


.... how convenient!

It must be great to live in a Country that can opt out of anything that does not suit its requirements! ..... including Human Rights![/quote]

Its called having the freedom and choice to subscribe or not whats wrong with that? Turkey is not the only country who opted out.
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