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What went on between the 20/7 and 14/8 1974?

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby halil » Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:29 am

The Two Sides at Geneva, August 1974

While the Geneva meetings had the feel of shadow boxing, with little prospect of a settlement, the two offerings for a new constitutional structure are revealing. The Turkish Cypriots were now in a position of unprecedented strength, and their proposal shows it. The Greek Cypriots were still insisting on most of their previous positions, despite the catastrophic events of July and the probability of a further Turkish intervention. Clerides= plan only gave in on the issue of local self-governance, the concession that could have settled all their differences previously (but was repeatedly vetoed by Makarios), but now was too little, too late.


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˜ Denktash at the Geneva conference after the first Turkish intervention, 1974:

"For eleven years the Greeks have tried , and did all they could, to destroy the 1960 Constitution. Having harassed the Turks and destroyed hundreds of Turkish villages and rendered thousands of Turks refugees, having tried under the guise of self-determination, to destroy the independence of Cyprus and unite the island with Greece, having brought, with the above objective, 20,000 Greek troops into Cyprus, having established underground organisations with the purpose of destroying the Cyprus Republic, having attacked the Turkish Cypriots, having brought from Greece ex-Generals and new generals and put them in charge of EOKA 'B', having then staged a coup with the help of the Greek junta, having further treated the Turks of Cyprus throughout as extremists and as separatists, having continuously harassed the Turks, and having treated them in a way no decent person would treat another, and having finally refused to implement the Geneva Declaration, having done all the above, all that the Greek side could think was to return to the 1960 Constitution".

˜ Proposal of Denktash submitted at Geneva on the 12th of August 1974.

(a) The Republic of Cyprus shall be an independent binational State.

(b) The Republic shall be composed of two federated states with full control and autonomy within their respective geographical boundaries.

(c) In determining the competence to be left to the Federal Government, the binational nature of the State shall be taken into account and the federal competence shall be exercised accordingly.

(d) The area of the Turkish Cypriot Federated State shall cover 34 per centum of the territory of the Republic falling north of a general line starting from the Limnitis-Lefka area in the west and running towards the east, passing through the Turkish controlled part of Nicosia, including the Turkish part of Famagusta and ending at the port of Famagusta.

(3) Pending an agreement on the final Constitutional structure of the Republic, the two autonomous administrations shall take over the full administrative authority within their respective areas as defined above and shall take steps to normalise and stabilise life in the Republic and refrain from acts of violence, harassment and discrimination against each other.

˜ Proposal of the Greek Cypriot Delegation submitted at Geneva on the 13th of August 1974 (the AClerides Plan@):

(1) The constitutional order of Cyprus shall retain its bi-communal character based on the co-existence of the Greek and Turkish communities within the framework of a sovereign, independent and integral Republic.

(2) This constitutional order shall, through an appropriate revision and the active co-operation and free consent of the two communities, ensure an enhanced feeling of security for both.

(3) The co-existence of the two communities shall be achieved in the context of institutional arrangements regarding an agreed allocation of powers and functions between the Central Government having competence over state affairs and the respective autonomous Communal Administrations exercising their powers on all other matters within areas to be established as in paragraph (5) herein below provided.

(4) The structure of the Central Government shall continue to be based on the presidential regime.

(5) The Greek and Turkish Communal Administrations shall exercise their powers and functions in areas consisting respectively of the purely Greek and Turkish villages and municipalities. For the purpose of communal administration such as villages and municipalities may be grouped together by the respective communal authorities. For the same purpose mixed villages shall come under the communal authorities of the community to which the majority of their inhabitants belong.

(6) Legislative authority over the respective Communal Administrations shall be exercised by the Greek and Turkish members of the House of Representatives constituted in separate Councils for this purpose.
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Postby laptachap » Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:56 am

halil wrote:The Two Sides at Geneva, August 1974

While the Geneva meetings had the feel of shadow boxing, with little prospect of a settlement, the two offerings for a new constitutional structure are revealing. The Turkish Cypriots were now in a position of unprecedented strength, and their proposal shows it. The Greek Cypriots were still insisting on most of their previous positions, despite the catastrophic events of July and the probability of a further Turkish intervention. Clerides= plan only gave in on the issue of local self-governance, the concession that could have settled all their differences previously (but was repeatedly vetoed by Makarios), but now was too little, too late.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

˜ Denktash at the Geneva conference after the first Turkish intervention, 1974:

"For eleven years the Greeks have tried , and did all they could, to destroy the 1960 Constitution. Having harassed the Turks and destroyed hundreds of Turkish villages and rendered thousands of Turks refugees, having tried under the guise of self-determination, to destroy the independence of Cyprus and unite the island with Greece, having brought, with the above objective, 20,000 Greek troops into Cyprus, having established underground organisations with the purpose of destroying the Cyprus Republic, having attacked the Turkish Cypriots, having brought from Greece ex-Generals and new generals and put them in charge of EOKA 'B', having then staged a coup with the help of the Greek junta, having further treated the Turks of Cyprus throughout as extremists and as separatists, having continuously harassed the Turks, and having treated them in a way no decent person would treat another, and having finally refused to implement the Geneva Declaration, having done all the above, all that the Greek side could think was to return to the 1960 Constitution".

˜ Proposal of Denktash submitted at Geneva on the 12th of August 1974.

(a) The Republic of Cyprus shall be an independent binational State.

(b) The Republic shall be composed of two federated states with full control and autonomy within their respective geographical boundaries.

(c) In determining the competence to be left to the Federal Government, the binational nature of the State shall be taken into account and the federal competence shall be exercised accordingly.

(d) The area of the Turkish Cypriot Federated State shall cover 34 per centum of the territory of the Republic falling north of a general line starting from the Limnitis-Lefka area in the west and running towards the east, passing through the Turkish controlled part of Nicosia, including the Turkish part of Famagusta and ending at the port of Famagusta.

(3) Pending an agreement on the final Constitutional structure of the Republic, the two autonomous administrations shall take over the full administrative authority within their respective areas as defined above and shall take steps to normalise and stabilise life in the Republic and refrain from acts of violence, harassment and discrimination against each other.

˜ Proposal of the Greek Cypriot Delegation submitted at Geneva on the 13th of August 1974 (the AClerides Plan@):

(1) The constitutional order of Cyprus shall retain its bi-communal character based on the co-existence of the Greek and Turkish communities within the framework of a sovereign, independent and integral Republic.

(2) This constitutional order shall, through an appropriate revision and the active co-operation and free consent of the two communities, ensure an enhanced feeling of security for both.

(3) The co-existence of the two communities shall be achieved in the context of institutional arrangements regarding an agreed allocation of powers and functions between the Central Government having competence over state affairs and the respective autonomous Communal Administrations exercising their powers on all other matters within areas to be established as in paragraph (5) herein below provided.

(4) The structure of the Central Government shall continue to be based on the presidential regime.

(5) The Greek and Turkish Communal Administrations shall exercise their powers and functions in areas consisting respectively of the purely Greek and Turkish villages and municipalities. For the purpose of communal administration such as villages and municipalities may be grouped together by the respective communal authorities. For the same purpose mixed villages shall come under the communal authorities of the community to which the majority of their inhabitants belong.

(6) Legislative authority over the respective Communal Administrations shall be exercised by the Greek and Turkish members of the House of Representatives constituted in separate Councils for this purpose.



Sounds very reasonable to me
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Postby Kifeas » Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:16 am

It sounds “very reasonable” to you because your mercenary motives and interests, being yourself an adventurer and a receiver of stolen GC properties in the occupied north, lie with "hearing" and "learning" only one side of the story, the dissembled and twisted Turkish version and thesis! Hardly any surprise! Pray though, one day, you may not have to learn the other side of the story, the hard way!
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Re: What went on between the 20/7 and 14/8 1974?

Postby halil » Mon Mar 10, 2008 11:51 am

halil wrote:
umit07 wrote:This period of history is very vague for me. What exactly went on between this period of time?
:?: :?: :?:


Makarios writes General Ghizikis, July 1974

One of the alleged triggers for the coup against Makarios was his insistence that the Greek troops be removed from Cyprus. This letter to the Apresident@ of Greece is frequently cited as one of the provocations to the Athens military junta.


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Nicosia, 2nd July 1974

Mr. President,

It is with deep regret that I am bound to report to you certain unacceptable conditions and facts, for which I consider the Greek Government responsible.

Since the secret arrival in Cyprus of General Grivas, in September 1971, rumours have circulated and there were well founded indications that he came to Cyprus urged and encouraged by certain circles in Athens. It is, however, certain that Grivas, from the first days of his arrival in Cyprus, was in touch with Greek officers from Greece, serving in the National Guard, by whom he was given help and support in his efforts to form an illegal organisation and to struggle allegedly for Enosis. He created the criminal organisation "EOKA B", which was the cause and the source of many ills for Cyprus. The activities of this organisation which, under the mantle of patriotism and Enosis slogans, has committed political assassinations and many other crimes are well known.

The National Guard, which is officered and controlled by Greek officers, was from the start the main supplier of both men and materials to "EOKA B", the members of which euphemistically called themselves "Enosists" and the "Enosist Array".

On many occasion I considered the question why an illegal nationally damaging organisation, which divides and causes internal dissension, splits the internal front, and leads the Greek Cypriots to civil war in Cyprus, is supported by Greek officers. On many an occasion I have also considered the question whether this support is approved by the Greek Government. I had a number of thoughts and reflections in order to find a logical answer to my doubts and to my questions. No answer under any circumstances or reflections could he supported on a logical basis. But the Greek Officers' support of "EOKA B" is in reality an undeniable fact. The National Guard camps in various places and their surrounding areas are decorated with pro-Grivas and pro-" EOKA B" slogans and with slogans against the Cyprus Government and especially against me. Greek Officers make propaganda in favour of "EOKA B" within the camps of the National Guard, openly. It is also known and it is an undeniable fact that the opposition press, which supports the criminal activities of "EOKA B", is financed by Athens, and is guided and takes its line from the persons in charge of the 2nd Bureau of the General Staff and the Greek Central Information Office (KYP) in Cyprus.

It is true, that whenever complaints were transmitted by me to the Greek Government about the attitude and behaviour of certain Greek officers, I received the reply that I ought not to hesitate to report such officers by naming them, and to state concrete accusations against them so that they would be recalled from Cyprus. I did this only on one occasion. Such a task is displeasing to me. But the evil is not cured by dealing with it in this way. What is important is the uprooting of the evil and its prevention and not simply to deal with the resulting consequences.

I regret to say, Mr. President, that the root of the evil is too deep and reaches as far as Athens. From there it is fed and from there it is conserved and spreads growing into a tree of evil, the bitter fruit of which Greek Cypriots are tasting today. And in order to be more and absolutely specific I state that members of the military regime of Greece support and direct the activities of the terrorist organisation "EOKA B". This explains the involvement of Greek officers of the National Guard in the illegal actions, conspiracies and other unacceptable situations.

Evidence of the guilt of the circles of the military regime can be found in documents, which were found recently in the possession of leading "EOKA B" persons. It is from the National Centre that money was sent plentifully for the needs of the organisation. After the death of Grivas and the recall of Major Karousos, who came with him, orders were given regarding the leadership of the organisation, and generally all directives came from Athens. It is not possible to doubt the genuineness of these documents, because the typed ones have corrections made by hand, and the handwriting of the author is known. I enclose one such document as an example.

I have always had as a principle and have repeatedly stated that cooperation with each Greek Government constitutes a national duty for me. National interest dictates harmonious and close cooperation between Athens and Nicosia. Whichever the Government of Greece is, it is for me the Government of the motherland and I must cooperate with it. I cannot say that I have special sympathy with military regimes especially in Greece, the country which gave birth to and is the cradle of democracy. But even in this case I did not waver from the principle of cooperation. You should understand however, Mr. President, the sad thoughts which occupy and torment me, after ascertaining that persons of the Government of Greece are guiding conspiracies against me, and worst of all dividing the Greeks of Cyprus and driving them to destroy each other. Not just on one occasion up to now have I felt, and in some instances almost been touched by an invisible hand stretched from Athens, searching in order to destroy my human existence. However, for the sake of national expediency I kept silent. Even the crafty spirit which seized the three defrocked bishops who, created a great crisis in the church, had its source of origin and emanated from Athens. However, I said nothing regarding this. I just pondered and considered all this. I would have continued to remain silent regarding the responsibility of the Greek Government in the present drama of Cyprus, if I was the only sufferer on the stage of this drama. But covering up and silence are not permissible, when all of Cypriot Hellenism is suffering, when Greek officers of the National Guard, urged by Athens are supporting "EOKA B" in criminal activities, which include political assassinations and are generally aimed at the dissolution of the state.

In the effort to dissolve the state of Cyprus great is the responsibility of the Greek Government. The Cyprus state can only be dissolved in the case of Enosis. Since, however, Enosis is not feasible it is imperative to strengthen the statehood of Cyprus. The Greek Government in its entire stance regarding the issue of the National Guard is practicing an abrogative policy on the Cyprus state. Some months ago the General Headquarters of the National Guard, which consists entirely of Greek officers, submitted to the Government of Cyprus for approval a list of candidates for cadet officers, who would he trained in a special school and would subsequently serve, during the course of their service, as officers. The Council of Ministers did not approve fifty-seven of the candidates on the list. General Headquarters was duly informed by letter. Despite this, on instructions from Athens, Headquartes did not pay any attention to the decision of the Council of Ministers, which had, on the basis of legislation, the exclusive right to appoint officers of the National Guard. Acting with impunity and arbitrarily General Headquarters trampled on laws, ignored the decision of the Government and enrolled the candidates which had not been approved in the school for officers. I consider absolutely unacceptable this attitude of the National Guard Headquarters, which consists of officers dependent on the Greek Government. The National Guard is an organ of the state of Cyprus and it must be controlled by it and not by Athens. The theory of a unitary defensive area of Greece-Cyprus has its sentimental side, but in reality the situation is different. The National Guard, in the way it is composed and officered today has deflected itself from its purpose and has become a place of burgeoning illegality, a centre of conspiracies against the state and a source of supplies for "EOKA B". Suffice it to say that vehicles of the National Guard in the recently increased activities of "EOKA B" transported arms and moved members of the organisation, whose arrest was imminent, to safety. The absolute responsibility for this deviation of the National Guard rests with Greek officers, some of whom are from head to foot mixed up and participate in "EOKA B ". And the National Centre is not without its share in responsibility. The Greek government could, with a simple nod, put an end to this regrettable situation. The National Centre could order an end to the violence and the terrorism of "EOKA B", because it is from Athens that the organisation derives the means of its support and its strength, as is proved by various evidence and receipts. As proof of this unacceptable situation I note here in parenthesis, that in Athens slogans were written against me on the walls of churches and other buildings, including the building of the Cyprus Embassy, yet the Greek Government, despite the fact, that it knows the identity of the perpetrators made no attempt to arrest and punish even one of them, tolerating thus propaganda for "EOKA B".

I have a lot more to say, Mr. President, but I do not think that I ought to speak at greater length. And in conclusion I convey to you that the National Guard which is officered by Greek officers, and whose sorry plight has shaken the confidence of the people of Cyprus, will be restructured on a new basis. I have shortened the period of service in order to reduce the ceiling of the National Guard and the extent of the evil. Possibly it could be observed that the reduction in the strength of the National Guard, due to the shortening of the period of service, would render it incapable of fulfilling its duty in the case of national danger. For reasons I do not wish to state here, I do not share this view. And I would request that the Greek officers serving in the National Guard be recalled. Their continued service and command of the National Guard would be damaging to the relations between Athens and Nicosia. I would, however, be happy should you wish to send to Cyprus about a hundred Greek officers to act as instructors and advisers to assist in the reorganisation of the armed forces of the Republic. I hope that, in the meantime, instructions will he given from Athens to "EOKA B" to terminate its activities since while it is not disbanded definitely it cannot be excluded that it will start a new wave of violence and assassinations.

I regret, Mr. President, that I found it necessary to say many unpleasant things in order to describe in these lines and in a language of raw sincerity the lamentable situation which has existed for a long time. This, however, is dictated by National interest, which I always have as a guide for all my actions. I do not wish to interrupt my co-operation with the Greek Government. It must, however, he kept in mind that I am not an appointed commissioner nor a locum tenens of the Greek Government in Cyprus, but an elected leader of a large section of Hellenism and I demand analogous behaviour towards me from the National Centre. The contents of this letter are not secret.

With hearty wishes,

Makarios of Cyprus
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Postby Tim Drayton » Mon Mar 10, 2008 11:58 am

boomerang wrote:
denizaksulu wrote:.....At the time of the Greek engineered coup against President Makarios, and the appointment of Nicos Sampson as the new president, as Miltiades said, did instil the fear into the TCs and Turkey that Enosis would be declared. The reaction of Turkey and the TCs was greatly underestimated. Had anybody else apart from N. Sampson been appointed as president, I believe Enosis would have been proclaimed. Hoever I think that this would have led to a three way civil war. I only say this as I believe that a significant number of GCs were against Enosis.(This is at least what we are led to believe).


Not a three way civil war Deniz if the tcs fought against the coupists along with the gcs...to defeat the evil coupists...our worsed nightmare...

I also think "turkey=fascist" was wrong in not restoring the constitution as a guarantor state...

This is why we had guarantors in the first place...in case shit hit the fan...to which it did...

And now the tcs ard demanding the same "turkey=fascist state" to be a guarantor again...you see the twisted logic here?


I wonder if I can come in here with some questions? I realise that this was a very painful period for people who lived through it, but certain question marks have formed in my mind as I try to make sense of what went on.

What interests me is the extent to which there was resistance to the coup. One hears stories of AKEL members taking to the streets with their hunting rifles in a futile attempt to defend the Republic. I believe that here in Limassol a battle raged for about a day at the Agios Nikolaos roundabout where AKEL supporters were defending a position in an office block. I hear that the working class area of Omonia in Limassol had the distinction of being the final place in Cyprus to surrender. This seems to be an aspect of 1974 that has not been researched in great detail. I wonder if people who witnessed events first hand were aware of such organised attempts to resist the coup, and how effective such attempts were.

The second question in my mind is that if, as Turkey claimed, it was intervening in accordance with the Treaty of Gurantee which required it to defend the existence and territorial integrity of the Republic, it surely had to attempt to ally itself with any forces within the GC community that were resiting the coup and were fighting to defend the Republic. Is there any evidence that Turkey attempted to contact those GCs who were staging this short-lived attempt to defend the Republic? If not, this must cast doubt on Turkey's allegation that it was simply exercising its right to intervene as a guarantor power.

I don't claim to have any answers to these questions. Like Umit, I am just interested in learning from those who experienced these events. Thanks.
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Postby halil » Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:16 pm

İ read in this forum some members were asking During the 74 coup why Turkish Cypriots didn't joint to resist fighters against the Coup.
İt was not possible that time . Before 74 in Cyprus there was a frontiers
between TC's and GC's .Both sides had their own front lines and armies .
TC's Mucahit's and GC's national guard and Greek army from Greece .
TC's and GC's sectores were forumed all around the island . İn this position how they could work together against the Coup ?
some members were saying , that coup was done by EOKA _B .
Who were the at frontiers between 64 and 74 ? İf the EOKE-B was forumed by little force and rest of the GC's didn't support them , who were staying at frontiers . Why the cities ,towns or villages were divided in two .Turkish/Greek sectors.......
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Postby Nikitas » Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:24 pm

Tim,

The resistance to the coup was not researched because it was so open and obvious, it is assumed that everyone knows about it.

The political side which fought against the coup most intensely were the EDEK socialists, and they did not use hunting weapons, there were many Kalashnikovs in their hands since they had been armed from before in anticipation of the coup and as means tou counter EOKA B' at the village level.

Cyprus being a small place, even smaller in social terms back in 1974, everyone knew everyone else's political affiliation and activity. In Nicosia a tank detachment was sent to the EDEK offices which were on the wall of the city. A battle was fought there and some antitank rockets were fired at the tanks. In Limassol the civilians joined the police in resisting the coup. Conflicts borke out in most towns when the coupists and EOKA B attacked the most obvious targets, the police stations.

When the invasion started the two sides declared a truce and people who had been arrested were armed and sent to the front. The military were in a mess. Brigadier Georgitsis, commander of the National Guard, had to hang his phone outside his window to convince Athens that Nicosia was being bombed. Athens refused to believe him. After reading about these incidents and seeing TV interviews of the people involved I believe that there was an agreement between the Greek junta and the Turks for a limited military action with minimum force. Hence the Athens lot could not believe that bombing was actually going on. It was not part of the deal. I can cite all kinds of evidence for this, but what stands out most is the fact that Georgitsis has never been called to testify, never interviewed, never prosecuted for his treason, and after his "retirement" he started a steel fabrication factory in Thessaloniki.

As for Turkey, it realised that the Greeks were in a mess and decided to push the dvantage. They saw that they could partition the island and did just that. There was no attempt made to make contact with anti coup forces, nor was there any attempt to isolate the EOKA B operatives or the people who massacred TC in Maratha and Sandalaris. So much for the care shown by Turkey for TCs and their safety or the restitution of the Republic.
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Postby Nikitas » Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:42 pm

Umit said:

"Well I know that Deniz Hoca, I am asking for facts on what both sides wanted during the period. I think the period in concern is a very important part of Cyprus history of which I know very little about."

The assumption held by most TCs is that the Greek junta of Athens wanted to take over Cyprus and unite the island with Greece. This is the main mistake. The junta wanted to oust Makarios and eradicate what they perceived back then as being a communist threat. You must remember that most of the Greek junta leaders were young non commissioned officers during the Greek civil war of 1946-49 in which 600 000 people were killed. That kind of experience marks people for life. Fighting communism was more important to them than Enosis.

Naturaly there will be those in this forum who like simplistic versions of reality and who will object saying "you wanted Enosis" etc. Their problem!

Ioannidis in his long term psychosis failed to perceive reality. He thought he had a deal with the Americans and would have their full support if he managed to have Makarios killed. He failed in that task and with Makarios alive and the British refusing flat out to recognise Sampson as the president the Americans withdrew their support. The apparent control of the island gained by the junta people could not last. It was a matter of little time for resistance to be organised and the coup smashed. Cypriots had managed to keep 45000 British troops pinned down during the EOKA. They would have made monkeys of the junta in a few weeks. The US must have calculated that risk before giving Turkey the green light.

There is irrefutable evidence that when the invasion started and Ioannidis could no longer deny reality he shouted out "the bastards betrayed me!". We do not know who the bastards were and how they betrayed him. The asshole is still alive in jail but refuses to make a statement of repent and will not talk about those times. Other junta operatives who have been released from jail have been careful not to touch on Cyprus. So we must draw our inferences and conclusions from circumstantial evidence.
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Re: What went on between the 20/7 and 14/8 1974?

Postby halil » Mon Mar 10, 2008 1:11 pm

umit07 wrote:This period of history is very vague for me. What exactly went on between this period of time?


Turkish Cypriots appealed to the Guarantor powers for help, but only Turkey was willing to make any effective response." On 20 July 1974 Turkey intervened under Article IV of the Treaty of Guarantee"—(UK Foreign & Commonwealth Office doc. CPS/75, Jan, 1987). The Greek newspaper Eleftherotipia published an interview with Nicos Sampson on 26 February 1981 in which he said "Had Turkey not intervened I would not only have proclaimed ENOSIS—I would have annihilated the Turks of Cyprus."
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/p ... 13we45.htm
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Re: What went on between the 20/7 and 14/8 1974?

Postby GreekForumer » Mon Mar 10, 2008 2:06 pm

halil wrote:
umit07 wrote:This period of history is very vague for me. What exactly went on between this period of time?


Turkish Cypriots appealed to the Guarantor powers for help, but only Turkey was willing to make any effective response." On 20 July 1974 Turkey intervened under Article IV of the Treaty of Guarantee"—(UK Foreign & Commonwealth Office doc. CPS/75, Jan, 1987). The Greek newspaper Eleftherotipia published an interview with Nicos Sampson on 26 February 1981 in which he said "Had Turkey not intervened I would not only have proclaimed ENOSIS—I would have annihilated the Turks of Cyprus."
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/p ... 13we45.htm


Halil, before Sampson could have annihilated the Turks, he would have to defeat the Makarios supporters to completely secure power and the machinery of state. Do you think Sampson had enough forces to defeat the Makarios supporters ? I think you probably do! Do you you think Sampson had the forces to defeat Makarios if the Makarios forces had the support of the Republic of Turkey ? Why didn't Turkey help the Makarios forces defeat the coupists instead of killing 7000+ Greeks ?
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