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Erd:there is no `Kurdish minority` in Turkey

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby insan » Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:03 pm

Greek nationalism had its hesitant beginnings in Cyprus at the end of the eighteenth century at a time when there was emerging a commercial merchant class along with a tax-farming class.[26] A small segment of Cypriot society became sensitive to Greek nationalist influences penetrating the island in the first two decades of the nineteenth century. No fully - fledged mass nationalist movement was evident in Cyprus during the last fifty years of Ottoman rule, but there is more than ample evidence to support the British Consular Report of 1866 that “the townspeople (of Cyprus) had become inculcated by the Hellenic Idea”.[27]


This nationalist orientation spread from prelates and notables to the mass of the Greek Cypriot population. The Greek Orthodox Church was the irredentist nationalist movement’s foremost exponent through its maintenance and control of education. The increase in literacy meant the spread of nationalist ideology, the social and national indoctrination of the younger generations. Moreover, Greek Cypriot students attended secondary schooling in Greece and to these were added later students at the University of Athens. Teachers from Greece staffed Cypriot schools especially in the decades before and after the British occupation in 1878. These efforts were reinforced by the assistance of organisations specifically structured to promote Greek Cypriot nationalism.[28] The whole structure to promote neo-Hellenic nationalism in Cyprus operated openly and more freely after the British occupation.


N Ganzis



I hope you know who N Ganzis is.
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Postby Main_Source » Fri Apr 15, 2005 5:17 pm

At the end of the day, if it wasnt for Greek nationalism, the official language of Athens would still be Turkish.
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Postby garbitsch » Fri Apr 15, 2005 5:42 pm

Kifeas wrote:
garbitsch wrote:**Turkey is a nation-state. Just like France and Greece. Turkey is founded by Turks and today's Turkey had been ruled by Turks for centuries (in 2071, we will be celebrating the 1000. year in Anatolia). Kurds had never ruled themselves before (except the defacto Kurdish administration in Northern IRaq, which was protected by Turkey).


Oh I see! Because they have never ruled themselves in a modern sense of nation state, a term that appeared only during the last 200 years, they should be permanently ruled by the Turks, because the Turks know better how to rule them. The Kurds have no right to rule themselves. The Kurds are an inferior tripe. Turks know better, and will always and for ever know better!

garbitsch wrote:** On the other hand, Cyprus is not an ethnic state.


Really?? What is it then? Are France, Greece, Britain, and Turkey ethnic states? Do you know any ethnic states? Just name a few if you know.

garbitsch wrote:**It does not state in the constitution that Cyprus is a Greek island.


Does it say in Turkey’s constitution that it is a British land?
Why should it say in our constitution that Cyprus is a Greek island???
Or a Turkish Island???
Cyprus is a Cypriot island!
????

garbitsch wrote:**Rep of Cyprus was founded by BOTH Greek Cyps and Turkish Cyps.


Really?? Did you read RoCy constitution?
Here is a link for it.
http://www.mfa.gov.cy/mfa/mfa.nsf/ConstitutionW?OpenForm
Do you see anything like your above statement to be written in it?
Just find the text and post it here.


1- Don't make your own interpretation of my arguements! I didn't say that Kurds are incapable of ruling themselves. I just see no point for the Greeks who demand Kurdish independence or self-rule. If Kurds shall rule themselves, the Bretons and Corsicans should rule themselves in France, and the Turks and other minorities in Greece! How about that? These people are not even recognised as an "ethnic minority" by their host states. The Cyprus case is different!
2- Ok it doesn't say in the constitution that ROC was founded by GCs and T.Cs but it talks about a Greek Cypriot community and a Turkish Cypriot community with some religious minority. This makes me feel that Cyprus has two main ethnic communities. But in France, Greece and Turkey, only one ethnic community is mentioned in the national constitutions. IS IT TOO HARD TO GET THIS SIMPLE ARGUEMENT INTO YOUR BRAIN?
3- Cyprus is a Cypriot island?? If it is, why did people kill each other in the past then? Oh, after 11 years, the Greek Cypriots had forgotten their Greekness and Greek heritage and become somewhat "Cypriots"? This is an artificial term, which in my eyes only means "people who are citizens of Rep. of Cyprus". OR you want to use this term to rule over the Turks in the island? That's another option! Having %90 Greek MPs in the Parliament and saying "don't worry we are all Cypriots eh?". Is that so?
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Postby cannedmoose » Fri Apr 15, 2005 5:43 pm

Main_Source wrote:At the end of the day, if it wasnt for Greek nationalism, the official language of Athens would still be Turkish.


Highly unlikely and a mockery of 19th century history. The Ottomans were a failing force and would inevitably have lost their Greek possessions. Much more likely that the official language would either have been Italian or English... and then ultimately would have become Greek through decolonisation.
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Postby garbitsch » Fri Apr 15, 2005 5:44 pm

Main_Source wrote:At the end of the day, if it wasnt for Greek nationalism, the official language of Athens would still be Turkish.


What do you want us to do? Ok we are the bad guys, you are the angels. Fine? Are you satisfied now?
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Postby Main_Source » Fri Apr 15, 2005 5:55 pm

CannedMoose, was it not through Greek nationalism that the revolution came about?

Also, are you saying that the Greeks should have waited around for the 'sick man of Europe' to finally move out of the Greek spoken lands?
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Postby garbitsch » Fri Apr 15, 2005 5:59 pm

Main_Source wrote:CannedMoose, was it not through Greek nationalism that the revolution came about?

Also, are you saying that the Greeks should have waited around for the 'sick man of Europe' to finally move out of the Greek spoken lands?


We should stop scraching the history mate. What concerns us is Cyprus not the Greek revolution in 1821.
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Postby Main_Source » Fri Apr 15, 2005 6:01 pm

Garbitsch, Im not saying the ordinary Turkish person is the bad guy...but I do think the powers that be in Turkey's history have not been the most noble of leaders.

Besides, my point was that there are different levels of nationalism...and like it or not, ultimatley nationalism is what keeps an identity of people alive. It was nationalism that brought about the Greek revolution. It was also an extreme form of nationalism that was in power in Greece between the mid 60's and the mid 70's (which I am not a fan of). Im just responding to Insans rants about Greek nationalism...to which I made a point that Greek nationalism is what brought about the revoloution.
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Postby garbitsch » Fri Apr 15, 2005 6:06 pm

Main Source, I've read some of your posts and in each of them you simply blamed the Turkish side for the every thing, as if the Greek side had done nothing bad! An ultra nationalist would do this! The Turkish nationalism in 1910s and 1920s saved the Turks and the Turkish land from six invading nations. But you would argue that during this period the invading powers had the right to do that. Wouldn't you? For instance, do you favour the invasion of West Anatolia by the Greeks? Just wanna know your opinion.
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