Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kifeas]

So there was no EOKA between 1960-1974? Who attacked TCs in Kokkina in 1964, and in Kofunye in 1967? Turks???

Relax Metecyp, I am not in the business of cheating you.

EOKA was between 1955 and 1959
EOKA B was between 1971 and 1974 and it’s aim was to assassinate Makarios in order to capture the power of GC community and proceed with enosis, with the backing of the Greek military junta which came in power from 1967 until 1974 upon the support of CIA

In 1964 in Kokkina it was the National Guard under the command of Grivas which attacked the enclave of Kokkina. If you remember the Kokkina and the surrounding TC villages formed an enclave on the seaside and they used it as a port to download weapons coming from Turkey for the use of TMT. Grivas was given at that time the command of the newly formed National Guard and decided this attack without the approval of Makarios and the mainland Greek government. Actually Grivas deceived Makarios and the Greek government before taking this action. During this period (July –August 1964) the Atchenson plan was under consideration and both Makarios and the Greek government didn’t wish any violent activities.

The same goes for the attack in Kofinou in 1967. It was the National Guard under the command of Grivas. If you do not know were Kofinou is, it is situated on the main Lefkosia –Limassol road. Nearby there was a TC village called Ayios Theodoros. Some TC irregulars or perhaps under the orders of TMT, occupied a hill next to the main road and set up some machine guns. From there they were randomly firing cars, especially police and army vehicles that were using the main road from/to Limassol /Lefkosia. Grivas send a disproportionate force to neutralise this TC post on the hill. The end result was that not only the hill was neutralised but also Grivas (despite the initial Makarios orders) proceeded into the Ayios Theodoros village and killed several other TC militias and arrested also some TC civilians. Upon this event, Makarios order the withdrawal of the Greek division that secretly arrived in Cyprus during the previous years and asked for Grivas removal from the command of the National Guard and his deportation back to mainland Greece. He also reduced the service period of the National Guard. It was from this point and on that Makarios became the enemy of Grivas and consequently he (Grivas) returned back in 1970 and organised the EOKA B in order to exterminate Makarios on the justification that Makarios was not favouring enosis ant linger and that he should be removed from the leadership of the GC community and the presidency of RoC.

[insan]

In 1964 in Kokkina it was the National Guard under the command of Grivas which attacked the enclave of Kokkina.

Kifeas, was there any time that Grivas and Grivasites abandoned the idea of Enosis. Was there a brave EOKA man to say "no" to anything ordered or asked by Grivas, from 1955 until his death?

Eoka and Eoka-B were the same things. The only difference between Eoka and Eoka-B is that after the establishment of RoC most of the elder EOKA men were upgraded to a government position in RoC but they have never changed their political stance because they couldn't. In undergorund organizations the penalty of "betrayal" is death. I think assassination of Yorgacis was related a "betrayal" dispute. The basic principles of both EOKA's were same because the leadership of both EOKA's were same. In Eoka-B, Grivas only renewed his gang with younger terrorists. Most of the elder EOKA men upgraded to the political front of Enosis cause. If there wasn't a strong political front of Grivas, he couldn't easily enter Cyprus in 1971, arm his thugs and take National Guard under control. All Makarios opponents, including some priests gave political and financial support to EOKA-B between the years 1968-74. The authority of Makarios couldn't stop them undermining RoC. They openly and publicl kept propogating for Enosis. 3 pro Enosis newspapers established afterwards 1967 which were financed by pro-Enosis Greek-GC businessmen and Junta.

Upon this event, Makarios order the withdrawal of the Greek division that secretly arrived in Cyprus during the previous years and asked for Grivas removal from the command of the National Guard and his deportation back to mainland Greece.

Grivas took the orders from Makarios? No, my friend. Turkey and US pressurized Greece to call Grivas and illegal Greek troops back to Athens. Otherwise Turkey was strongly decisive to launch a military intervention in 1968.

[efe]

i still cant believe turkish planes are flying in greek airspace (going as far as athens) to be honest, if a greek plane came close to izmir, it would be shot down (not even ankara).

if planes really, are flying above athens, it would be a HUGE thing. i would expect greeks to shoot them down.

i really dont trust the greek propoganda.

[Main_Source]

lol...you dont believe Turkish aeroplanes are flying into Greek airspace? Its a like a basic fact.

You dont trust Greek propaganda...but trust Turkish propaganda right? Like Saint Nicholas was an 'early Turkish Christian' or the Greek Cypriots aren't really Greek at all...or basically the continuing denial of Greek heritage and culture within Turkey.

[Agios Amvrosios]

Efe ,If you are saying that ethnic cleansing can be justified :

there was only one way, and it was to seperate them. to seperate them you need to move people. therefore turks in south moved to north, greeks in north moved to south.

Then you are definitely not ready for the EU.

This is completely disrespectful and out of line with European principals.

[Kifeas]

In 1964 in Kokkina it was the National Guard under the command of Grivas which attacked the enclave of Kokkina.

Kifeas, was there any time that Grivas and Grivasites abandoned the idea of Enosis. Was there a brave EOKA man to say "no" to anything ordered or asked by Grivas, from 1955 until his death?

Insan, just out of curiosity. What is the relationship between my answer above, regarding who ordered the attack in Kokkina and your question below?
Grivas never abandoned the idea of Enosis, that's true. Like Denktash never abandoned the idea of Taksim.
Whether someone dared to ever say no to Grivas? I do not know.
Grivas was not in Cyprus from 1960 until 1964 and from 1968 until 1971.
From 1964 until 1967 he was appointed by Makarios as commander of the National Guard.
From 1971 until his death in 1973 he was an outlaw and was hiding in some caves, conspiring how to organize EOKA B and directing most of her illegal actions.
Is that sufficient for you?

Do you wonder why Makarios allowed or agreed for Grivas to gain the command of the National Guard?
There is an answer to this question too.
Tell me what do you think first.

[insan]

Insan, just out of curiosity. What is the relationship between my answer above, regarding who ordered the attack in Kokkina and your question below?

It has relationship with your answer to metecyp concerning the existence of EOKA between the years 1960-67. And I've made it clear with the following paragraph of the relevant post. EOKA has always existed.

Eoka and Eoka-B were the same things. The only difference between Eoka and Eoka-B is that after the establishment of RoC most of the elder EOKA men were upgraded to a government position in RoC but they have never changed their political stance because they couldn't. In undergorund organizations the penalty of "betrayal" is death. I think assassination of Yorgacis was related a "betrayal" dispute. The basic principles of both EOKA's were same because the leadership of both EOKA's were same. In Eoka-B, Grivas only renewed his gang with younger terrorists. Most of the elder EOKA men upgraded to the political front of Enosis cause. If there wasn't a strong political front of Grivas, he couldn't easily enter Cyprus in 1971, arm his thugs and take National Guard under control. All Makarios opponents, including some priests gave political and financial support to EOKA-B between the years 1968-74. The authority of Makarios couldn't stop them undermining RoC. They openly and publicl kept propogating for Enosis. 3 pro Enosis newspapers established afterwards 1967 which were financed by pro-Enosis Greek-GC businessmen and Junta.

Grivas never abandoned the idea of Enosis, that's true. Like Denktash never abandoned the idea of Taksim.

According to my researches, Taksim idea has always been brought to agenda and gained momentum as a retaliation to Enosis. Denktash made this clear to Clerides in his letter witten to Clerides in 1971. In 1967-74 period, there was not just a single TMT attack towards anyone. TMT had changed its stance into a passive resitence and chose diplomacy after Makarios accepted to negotiate with TC leadership without any pre-conditions. Most of the TC refugees had returned to their homes and Denktash was negotiating with Clerdies with a goodwill at its maximum despite the provocative actions of Junta sponsored GC media, actions of EOKA-B and the majority rule insistence of Makarios.

Whether someone dared to ever say no to Grivas? I do not know.
Grivas was not in Cyprus from 1960 until 1964 and from 1968 until 1971.

Evdokas, Sampson etc aka Grivas clan and all others which I cannot remember the names now were all in Cyprus.

From 1964 until 1967 he was appointed by Makarios as commander of the National Guard.

Makarios dug his own hole by appointing Grivas as the commander of the National Guard. When Junta came to power in 1967, he realized how big mistake was appointing Grivas to command National Guard. Most of the youngsters of 30.000 National Guard were brain washed by Greek officers and prepared for Enosis.

From 1971 until his death in 1973 he was an outlaw and was hiding in some caves, conspiring how to organize EOKA B and directing most of her illegal actions.

At that age it was normal for this coward monarcho fascist hide himself in some caves. He commanded EOKA-B, Greek officers and National guard and political front of Enosis from his cave.

Is that sufficient for you?

Do you wonder why Makarios allowed or agreed for Grivas to gain the command of the National Guard?

At the time when Makarios allowed/agreed or took the orders from Athens for Grivas to gain the command of National Guard; Makarios was still in political front of Enosis. The official excuse of calling Grivas from Athens to command National Guard was seemingly to unite several irregular Enosis bands and the national guard which divided into left-right camps. Yes, he was sent to Cyprus by Athens with approval of Makarios to unite all Enosis forces under one roof and elliminate leftists. Am I missing something about this issue?

[/quote]

[Main_Source]

Insan, where do you get your professional knowledge of EOKA from? Or are you adding fiction to fact to paint your own version of things?

Anyway, no one made an issue of my points that Taksim had been in plan since 1957...and probably even before then, seeing as Ataturk blatently coverted Cyprus. Yet people like you Insan still choose to believe the fairytale that Turkey invaded for a 'peace-mission' to protect the Turkish Cypriots (who are now the minority in N.Cyprus), when it's obvious Turkey's desire of Cyprus goes way back before EOKA was formed. So I expect you think the GC should've waited around like lame ducks for Turkey to invade (like the tried to in the 50's)?

[efe]

your suggestions are hard to prove. they are contravertial. but eoka trying to join cyprus to greece is a fact. you say turkey had secret plans, but in reality they havent taken as obvious steps towards their goal. (ofcourse now you are going to say 1974 invasion)

[insan]

Insan, where do you get your professional knowledge of EOKA from? Or are you adding fiction to fact to paint your own version of things?

Anyway, no one made an issue of my points that Taksim had been in plan since 1957...and probably even before then, seeing as Ataturk blatently coverted Cyprus. Yet people like you Insan still choose to believe the fairytale that Turkey invaded for a 'peace-mission' to protect the Turkish Cypriots (who are now the minority in N.Cyprus), when it's obvious Turkey's desire of Cyprus goes way back before EOKA was formed. So I expect you think the GC should've waited around like lame ducks for Turkey to invade (like the tried to in the 50's)?

I've answered your questions long ago but it seems you still haven't satisfied. Enosis and Enosists existed since 1830s. Ataturk, Denktash, Taksim etc were not born yet. Do you remeber the first public uprising of GC rebels for Enosis in 1929? Do you remeber the petition for Enosis organized by church in 1950 and signed by %97 of GCs?