Cyprus-Forum.com

[Ghandi]

Hi,

I recently posted a thread called Sorry.In it I asked if the GC and TC governments where to apologise what would they have to apologise for?

I did not receive any responses.Could i assume then that the Cypriots and their governments are no way to blame for the history of the island.It is all the fault of the English, and Greek and Turkish mainlanders.

The killing of civilians was done by the Turkish mainlanders and the selling of land is just a necessarity because of the unrecognition and financial restraints.

Considering there is so much finger pointing on the forum you would think that the TC and the GC would have something to apologise for.

Maybe all Cypriots are innocent parties.

[Ghandi]

What have the GC and TC really done wrong besides not negotiate and try to survive ?

[Piratis]

Ghandi, the magnitude of responsibility of each side is known.

Overall there is no doubt that Cypriots have been (and continue to be) the victims of foreigners who either caused harm to the Cypriot people directly by sending their armies to our island to kill and oppress us, or indirectly by promoting divide and rule practices and imposing on us divisive agreements instead of allowing the Cypriot people to take its own democratic choices. To put it simply, if no foreign invaders where interested in Cyprus, then Cyprus would be a peaceful island with no more problems than the ordinary. So that is where the root of the problem is and where the biggest responsibility lies. Thats the important "big picture".

This doesn't mean of course that Cypriots have not made mistakes, and they have not committed crimes. We did, just like every other nation in the world, but in a smaller scale than most due to the small size of Cyprus. (we didn't have the capabilities to throw atomic bombs, or colonize and enslave half the world).

When it comes to the harm that we have caused to each other during the last few decades, the Greek Cypriot side has contemned any crimes committed against Turkish Cypriots. We condemned the actions of EOKA B and Junta, the leaders of which went to jail, as well as the crimes committed against innocent TCs during the inter-communal conflict. Unfortunately the leadership of the TC side under the guidance of Ankara continues to have partition as their aim, and this is why they don't accept their share of crimes during the inter-communal conflict because they want to present TCs as the "innocent victims" and GCs as the "evils" who now deserve to be punished by having 1/3rd of their island stolen from them.

[Ghandi]

So all the bickering and finger pointing done on this sight towards the TC
is not warranted.

They have not apologised but they cannot as Ankara holds all the cards.They can not have it any other way because of their financial and cultural isolation.

The GC has apologised for its only mistakes so therefore the TC can not finger point.

My question is now why does it happened.Have the big powers brainwashed most of the people on this sight?

[Piratis]

Ghandi, divide and rule is not about brainwashing by foreigners. It is mainly about giving incentives and promises to one side that if it acts in a certain way they (the foreign powers) will help them to have gains against the other side.

In the 50s the British didn't want to lose the whole of Cyprus, and Turkey wouldn't mind to take a piece of it either, so the TC minority was used in that direction. Where do you think all the claims that "TCs are not a minority" and all the privilages that where given to TCs with the 1959 agreements come from?

Those same incentives and promises for gains on the loss of the other side still hold true today. TCs are now promised that if they play along those foreign powers will grand to them land and power which is disproportionally large to their size, on the loss of GCs.

Personally I would be more than happy for all the bickering between Cypriots to end so we could unite and be able to defend our island better from those outsiders who have interests in our island.

But of course some don't want that to happen. What they want is the gains that they have been promised by those foreigners. They want to continue playing the divide and rule game because they think that they will also be one of the winners of this game. So instead of looking at the big picture and the root of the Cyprus problem, they instead choose to go on with the hate propaganda against the other side, blaming the other Cypriot side for everything, playing in this way the role that was assigned to them in this game of divide and rule.

The question is: Will Turkish Cypriots realize that the ones that win the divide and rule game are those who designed the game, and not them? Will they realize that they have a lot more to gain (peacefully and honestly) in a truly united and truly democratic Cyprus without racist discriminations? How long will it take to realize this? 10 more years? 30 more years? Will there be any Turkish Cypriots by then, or it will too late, making them the first "knock out" casualty of the divide and rule game?

[Viewpoint]

Ghandi, divide and rule is not about brainwashing by foreigners. It is mainly about giving incentives and promises to one side that if it acts in a certain way they (the foreign powers) will help them to have gains against the other side.

In the 50s the British didn't want to lose the whole of Cyprus, and Turkey wouldn't mind to take a piece of it either, so the TC minority was used in that direction. Where do you think all the claims that "TCs are not a minority" and all the privilages that where given to TCs with the 1959 agreements come from?

Those same incentives and promises for gains on the loss of the other side still hold true today. TCs are now promised that if they play along those foreign powers will grand to them land and power which is disproportionally large to their size, on the loss of GCs.

Personally I would be more than happy for all the bickering between Cypriots to end so we could unite and be able to defend our island better from those outsiders who have interests in our island.

But of course some don't want that to happen. What they want is the gains that they have been promised by those foreigners. They want to continue playing the divide and rule game because they think that they will also be one of the winners of this game. So instead of looking at the big picture and the root of the Cyprus problem, they instead choose to go on with the hate propaganda against the other side, blaming the other Cypriot side for everything, playing in this way the role that was assigned to them in this game of divide and rule.

The question is: Will Turkish Cypriots realize that the ones that win the divide and rule game are those who designed the game, and not them? Will they realize that they have a lot more to gain (peacefully and honestly) in a truly united and truly democratic Cyprus without racist discriminations? How long will it take to realize this? 10 more years? 30 more years? Will there be any Turkish Cypriots by then, or it will too late, making them the first "knock out" casualty of the divide and rule game?

Could you kindly explain to us all how TCs woudl be better off in a United Cyprus as described above and in your imagination? Could the TCs stop the majority rule say if they wanted to abolish Turkish as an official language? Do you feel it fair that "the majority" being the GCs will be given the freedom to manipulate and exploit whom ever they wish all under the guise of "majority" rule?

[Piratis]

VP, majority rule as well as minority rights are integral parts of democracy and exist in every other democratic country in the world.
http://usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/w ... hatdm2.htm

There are many democratic ways to protect any real concerns that the TCs have, and we have discussed them many times.

If what you demand was fair then it would be given to every other minority in the world. I am sure most other minorities would be very glad if they would be given 50% power. So the reason you demand such things has nothing to do with how fair they are, and everything to do with your belief that by siding with Turkey and the UK, and playing the role that was assigned to you in their divide and rule game, you can have gains on the loss of the rest of Cypriots.

[purdey]

I cannot speak for Turkey,as I am not sure what there agenda holds for Cyprus.I can however hazard a guess why the UK continue to have military bases on Cypriot land.
I also wonder why the rest of the EU has not got on the band wagon and asked why the British are still there ?
The days of the UK's divide and conquer are just a distant memory,maybe if Cyprus was so against UK bases on the island a concerted political move would be at work.I hear the odd mumblings from time to time but a concerted effort to remove the British seems a long way off.

[Viewpoint]

VP, majority rule as well as minority rights are integral parts of democracy and exist in every other democratic country in the world.
http://usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/w ... hatdm2.htm

There are many democratic ways to protect any real concerns that the TCs have, and we have discussed them many times.

If what you demand was fair then it would be given to every other minority in the world. I am sure most other minorities would be very glad if they would be given 50% power. So the reason you demand such things has nothing to do with how fair they are, and everything to do with your belief that by siding with Turkey and the UK, and playing the role that was assigned to you in their divide and rule game, you can have gains on the loss of the rest of Cypriots.

Please answer the questions, how would we be better off accepting GC rule? or exposing ourselves to policies manipulated and imposed on TCs?

[Ghandi]

This is fascinating this bickering by the GC over the TC and yet the TC have nothing they should be sorry about.

It seems like they do not have the power and therefore the option to stand up against Turkey or the financial might of the GC.

The hate propaganda has been made By Turkey and the TC basically have no power.They have no power financily,culturally or politically.

Turkey is the only country that has helped them and so the TC thinks that it is the only way to gain.

If the GC on the sight dont think the TC has anything to be sorry about shoudnt they change their beleifs.

Instead of pointing the finger at the TC should'nt they work towqards gaining the TC's trust, as they are the only Cypriots who have the power to change anything on the Island ?

Where is the heart or logic?

The GC has also according to the people on the forum have done nothing wrong that they have not apologised