Cyprus-Forum.com

[Get Real!]

if the problem is Turkey than shoudnt the GC try tgive the TC more power so they are not as reliant on them.eg Direct flights.

I've heard a lot of pathetic TC excuses but this one tops them all!

[denizaksulu]

Lets not kid ourselves. The only innocents are the children who have suffered for the stupidity of the adults. Read that anyway you like. You can listen to all arguments, but the topic is about innocence. The children are the only ones fitting this thread.

If you look a bit more carefully you will see that every Cypriot while he was a child (and not only) has suffered due to what foreigners imposed on our island.

For Christs sake forget the blaming game or we will keep on blaming each other till kingdom come. Spend your damn energy on what you can do to ensure the future of your children and ours. STOP being so imflammatory.

How I am inflammatory? I am just stating some facts. And who said I want to play any "blame games"? Why would I want that? I am not the one who wants to punish others by gaining power or land on their loss, so what good would any blame game do to me?

What I want is simple:

Lets stop the illegalities and the human rights violations.
Lets forgive each other.
And lets have in Cyprus a normal democratic country like all the rest.

No need for blames, no need for punishments. What do you say?

Piratis
To you, all our problems have began with Ankara, 1974, Ankara 1974, you go on and on as per usual. Nothing hapenned between the years between 1963 to 1974. In no way do I condone the way the GCs were expelled from the North but tell the guy Gandhi, what the GCs were trying to achieve at the expense of TCs.

[bill cobbett]

if the problem is Turkey than shoudnt the GC try tgive the TC more power so they are not as reliant on them.eg Direct flights.

I've heard a lot of pathetic TC excuses but this one tops them all!

GR. Leaving aside the "excuses" and "power" bit, on which I am in agreement, can I ask what would you expect or like to see in return from our northern friends for withdrawing your objection to, say, "direct flights"?

[Get Real!]

if the problem is Turkey than shoudnt the GC try tgive the TC more power so they are not as reliant on them.eg Direct flights.

I've heard a lot of pathetic TC excuses but this one tops them all!

GR. Leaving aside the "excuses" and "power" bit, on which I am in agreement, can I ask what would you expect or like to see in return from our northern friends for withdrawing your objection to, say, "direct flights"?

Turkey’s military withdrawal from Cyprus is DEMANDED by UN resolutions and it is NOT something that should be used or accepted as a bargaining chip. There should be no “reward” expected by the Turkish Cypriots for it is in their interests that Turkey withdraws and democratic order be restored to all four corners of the island.

A modern democracy, backed by EU membership, is the best this world has to offer for a people, so the sooner everyone stops seeing themselves as a “community” and start seeing themselves as Cypriot citizens, as they should, the sooner Cypriots of all ethnic backgrounds will enjoy peace and prosperity.

The solution is VERY simple and it is none other than DEMOCRACY but some penny-wise and pound-foolish short-sighted idiots refuse to embrace it and insist on complicated political arrangements that can only guarantee the dissolution of the island.

[Piratis]

VP, majority rule as well as minority rights are integral parts of democracy and exist in every other democratic country in the world.
http://usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/w ... hatdm2.htm

There are many democratic ways to protect any real concerns that the TCs have, and we have discussed them many times.

If what you demand was fair then it would be given to every other minority in the world. I am sure most other minorities would be very glad if they would be given 50% power. So the reason you demand such things has nothing to do with how fair they are, and everything to do with your belief that by siding with Turkey and the UK, and playing the role that was assigned to you in their divide and rule game, you can have gains on the loss of the rest of Cypriots.

Please answer the questions, how would we be better off accepting GC rule? or exposing ourselves to policies manipulated and imposed on TCs?

VP, nobody asked from you to accept "GC rule" and nothing will be imposed which will be against anybodies human or democratic rights. Cypriots should be allowed to rule themselves in a democratic way.

There is also the constitution of the country, where things about language, culture and everything else could be written there, and I would agree that the constitution can not change without the agreement of majorities from both communities. This should take care of any fears that you might have.

Why what exists in Cyprus should be different than what exists in every other democratic country? Why don't they give 50% power to the minorities in Turkey. Even in the "country" you declared in north Cyprus you didn't give 50% to the GCs that live there, did you? If you thought that such thing was so fair and nice then why didn't you do it? Because GCs are "evil"?

Eventhough the newspapers teach hate and propaganda against the TC when in reality it is Turkey and not the TC that has done wrong .

Can you show me some example articles about this? We always say that it is Turkey which is responsible for the occupation. The only thing we (rightly) accuse the TC leadership is that they follow the instructions of Ankara and the Turkish army to the letter instead of trying for a solution that will restore the human and democratic rights of all Cypriots.

This is exactly what you ask me to do is become a minority in a GC state run by GCs as a foreigner with no safeguards to ensure my involvement in my own future. The Kurd/Turk dispute is not my problem as I have no say in that issue, my problem is my island where I want to live in peace and tranquilty without being dominated by GCs who have a history of trying to seek revenge for what happened 500 years ago let alone 34 years ago. I am willing to share as 2 equal communites whos history dictactes the type of solution we can agree, one size does not fit all in this case, we are unique in that both sides have concerns and fears which have to addressed if we ever wish to find a solution. What you have to realize is that we TCs love this island just as much as you do maybe even more and that we will not be forced into a minority status in our own country.

You tried to change the constitution before what will stop you next time? so your saying I wont just does not cut it we need sturctures that will guarantee you cannot.

We can have what they have in other countries eg Switzerland Belgium but both sides need the right to say no when any policy effects their side more negatively than the other.

Why is this so difficult to understand and what have to fear?

2 equal states under one identity where everyone can settle where ever they wish, proportional respresentation where both states have to vote for policies to be adopted.

VP, I ask you again: If you consider what you demand as "fair" then why you didn't give 50% power to the GCs that live in the "country" you declared? And based on what do you demand that land that belongs to us by 82% should be your separate state? Based on the "GCs are evil and should be punished, and TCs are innocent and should have gains on the Evil GCs loss" theories of yours?

And what kind of revenge did I seek for events of the past? Did I ask to take your land? No. You demand to take mine. Did I ask to violate your rights? No. You demand that mine should be violated.

When I remind you what happened 430 years ago, and almost non stop until today, is just to remind you that we are the biggest victims on this island, and not you. I do this because you constantly bring up your own distorted, exaggerated and one sided version of some events of the past in your effort to present GCs as "evil" and find excuses to commit yet more crimes against us.

What you say in this thread is a confirmation to my initial posts. That TCs continue to play the role that was assigned to them in the divide and rule game of UK/Turkey against Cyprus, because they hope that in this way they can have more gains on our loss.

What is funny is that you are using your own distorted version of the inter-communal conflict in order to excuse your unfair demands, forgetting that this inter-communal conflict actually started when you attacked us back in 1957, as your first act in your role in the divide and rule game of UK and Turkey against our island.

if the problem is Turkey than shoudnt the GC try tgive the TC more power so they are not as reliant on them.eg Direct flights.

No because that would send the message to TCs that helping some foreigners to divide and rule our island can actually be beneficial for them. That would be the wrong message.

[bill cobbett]

if the problem is Turkey than shoudnt the GC try tgive the TC more power so they are not as reliant on them.eg Direct flights.

I've heard a lot of pathetic TC excuses but this one tops them all!

GR. Leaving aside the "excuses" and "power" bit, on which I am in agreement, can I ask what would you expect or like to see in return from our northern friends for withdrawing your objection to, say, "direct flights"?

Turkey’s military withdrawal from Cyprus is DEMANDED by UN resolutions and it is NOT something that should be used or accepted as a bargaining chip. There should be no “reward” expected by the Turkish Cypriots for it is in their interests that Turkey withdraws and democratic order be restored to all four corners of the island.

A modern democracy, backed by EU membership, is the best this world has to offer for a people, so the sooner everyone stops seeing themselves as a “community” and start seeing themselves as Cypriot citizens, as they should, the sooner Cypriots of all ethnic backgrounds will enjoy peace and prosperity.

The solution is VERY simple and it is none other than DEMOCRACY but some penny-wise and pound-foolish short-sighted idiots refuse to embrace it and insist on complicated political arrangements that can only guarantee the dissolution of the island.

Again I must agree with GR's and other's idealism. I also could never compromise on mine or the rights of others in an end solution. Rights aren't negotiable. In the interim however, is there room for movement, bartering if you like, on some smaller matters like direct flights, Varosi etc.

[Piratis]

Lets not kid ourselves. The only innocents are the children who have suffered for the stupidity of the adults. Read that anyway you like. You can listen to all arguments, but the topic is about innocence. The children are the only ones fitting this thread.

If you look a bit more carefully you will see that every Cypriot while he was a child (and not only) has suffered due to what foreigners imposed on our island.

For Christs sake forget the blaming game or we will keep on blaming each other till kingdom come. Spend your damn energy on what you can do to ensure the future of your children and ours. STOP being so imflammatory.

How I am inflammatory? I am just stating some facts. And who said I want to play any "blame games"? Why would I want that? I am not the one who wants to punish others by gaining power or land on their loss, so what good would any blame game do to me?

What I want is simple:

Lets stop the illegalities and the human rights violations.
Lets forgive each other.
And lets have in Cyprus a normal democratic country like all the rest.

No need for blames, no need for punishments. What do you say?

Piratis
To you, all our problems have began with Ankara, 1974, Ankara 1974, you go on and on as per usual. Nothing hapenned between the years between 1963 to 1974. In no way do I condone the way the GCs were expelled from the North but tell the guy Gandhi, what the GCs were trying to achieve at the expense of TCs.

Democracy. The one that was denied to us for centuries, and then you collaborated with the British in order to deny it to us again. Thats what we were trying to achieve. Apparently democracy is "on the expense of TCs" because is seems TCs got used in being the "higher class Muslims" while having GCs as the "low class Christians" with no rights, and they couldn't imagine how it could be possible for every Cypriot to be equal without racist discriminations and segregations of the Ottoman era.

Deniz, here somehting I noticed: You keep talking about the past, trying to find excuses for yet more crimes against us, but when you are reminded of the true facts of the past you suddenly change mode and tell us that we shouldn't talk about the past but about the future.

[Get Real!]

if the problem is Turkey than shoudnt the GC try tgive the TC more power so they are not as reliant on them.eg Direct flights.

I've heard a lot of pathetic TC excuses but this one tops them all!

GR. Leaving aside the "excuses" and "power" bit, on which I am in agreement, can I ask what would you expect or like to see in return from our northern friends for withdrawing your objection to, say, "direct flights"?

Turkey’s military withdrawal from Cyprus is DEMANDED by UN resolutions and it is NOT something that should be used or accepted as a bargaining chip. There should be no “reward” expected by the Turkish Cypriots for it is in their interests that Turkey withdraws and democratic order be restored to all four corners of the island.

A modern democracy, backed by EU membership, is the best this world has to offer for a people, so the sooner everyone stops seeing themselves as a “community” and start seeing themselves as Cypriot citizens, as they should, the sooner Cypriots of all ethnic backgrounds will enjoy peace and prosperity.

The solution is VERY simple and it is none other than DEMOCRACY but some penny-wise and pound-foolish short-sighted idiots refuse to embrace it and insist on complicated political arrangements that can only guarantee the dissolution of the island.

Again I must agree with GR's and other's idealism. I also could never compromise on mine or the rights of others in an end solution. Rights aren't negotiable. In the interim however, is there room for movement, bartering if you like, on some smaller matters like direct flights, Varosi etc.

No incentives should be offered whilst the Republic is abused and disrespected, so once order is restored I would be happy if Turkish Cypriots were offered special privileges for a couple of years to get them off the ground such as subsidized housing, priority employment, and other benefits, to make them more welcome and help them settle down etc.

[DT.]

if the problem is Turkey than shoudnt the GC try tgive the TC more power so they are not as reliant on them.eg Direct flights.

I've heard a lot of pathetic TC excuses but this one tops them all!

GR. Leaving aside the "excuses" and "power" bit, on which I am in agreement, can I ask what would you expect or like to see in return from our northern friends for withdrawing your objection to, say, "direct flights"?

Turkey’s military withdrawal from Cyprus is DEMANDED by UN resolutions and it is NOT something that should be used or accepted as a bargaining chip. There should be no “reward” expected by the Turkish Cypriots for it is in their interests that Turkey withdraws and democratic order be restored to all four corners of the island.

A modern democracy, backed by EU membership, is the best this world has to offer for a people, so the sooner everyone stops seeing themselves as a “community” and start seeing themselves as Cypriot citizens, as they should, the sooner Cypriots of all ethnic backgrounds will enjoy peace and prosperity.

The solution is VERY simple and it is none other than DEMOCRACY but some penny-wise and pound-foolish short-sighted idiots refuse to embrace it and insist on complicated political arrangements that can only guarantee the dissolution of the island.

Again I must agree with GR's and other's idealism. I also could never compromise on mine or the rights of others in an end solution. Rights aren't negotiable. In the interim however, is there room for movement, bartering if you like, on some smaller matters like direct flights, Varosi etc.

No incentives should be offered whilst the Republic is abused and disrespected, so once order is restored I would be happy if Turkish Cypriots were offered special privileges for a couple of years to get them off the ground such as subsidized housing, priority employment, and other benefits, to make them more welcome and help them settle down etc.

Help them settle down? WHy? Where've they been?

[denizaksulu]

Lets not kid ourselves. The only innocents are the children who have suffered for the stupidity of the adults. Read that anyway you like. You can listen to all arguments, but the topic is about innocence. The children are the only ones fitting this thread.

If you look a bit more carefully you will see that every Cypriot while he was a child (and not only) has suffered due to what foreigners imposed on our island.

For Christs sake forget the blaming game or we will keep on blaming each other till kingdom come. Spend your damn energy on what you can do to ensure the future of your children and ours. STOP being so imflammatory.

How I am inflammatory? I am just stating some facts. And who said I want to play any "blame games"? Why would I want that? I am not the one who wants to punish others by gaining power or land on their loss, so what good would any blame game do to me?

What I want is simple:

Lets stop the illegalities and the human rights violations.
Lets forgive each other.
And lets have in Cyprus a normal democratic country like all the rest.

No need for blames, no need for punishments. What do you say?

Piratis
To you, all our problems have began with Ankara, 1974, Ankara 1974, you go on and on as per usual. Nothing hapenned between the years between 1963 to 1974. In no way do I condone the way the GCs were expelled from the North but tell the guy Gandhi, what the GCs were trying to achieve at the expense of TCs.

Democracy. The one that was denied to us for centuries, and then you collaborated with the British in order to deny it to us again. Thats what we were trying to achieve. Apparently democracy is "on the expense of TCs" because is seems TCs got used in being the "higher class Muslims" while having GCs as the "low class Christians" with no rights, and they couldn't imagine how it could be possible for every Cypriot to be equal without racist discriminations and segregations of the Ottoman era.

Deniz, here somehting I noticed: You keep talking about the past, trying to find excuses for yet more crimes against us, but when you are reminded of the true facts of the past you suddenly change mode and tell us that we shouldn't talk about the past but about the future.

I dont necessarily want to talk about the past. Only that you keep on insisting that the current Cyprus ptoblem only began in 1974.

During the times of the Ottoman rule, moslems and the orthodox suffered at the ands of the Porte together. You better read detailed facts about the Ottoman era. You have yor souces, find them.