Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kifeas]

It was called con(de)structive ambiguities!

[Oracle]

...since in reality there is no such thing like a “virgin birth” in this univerese!

Kifeas .... not meaning to be pedantic but parthenogenesis is fairly common in the lower animal species ......

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... shark.html
http://members.aol.com/Attic21/CreatureofDay/whip.html
http://home.pcisys.net/~dlblanc/article ... enesis.php

[Kifeas]

...since in reality there is no such thing like a “virgin birth” in this univerese!

Kifeas .... not meaning to be pedantic but parthenogenesis is fairly common in the lower animal species ......

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... shark.html
http://members.aol.com/Attic21/CreatureofDay/whip.html
http://home.pcisys.net/~dlblanc/article ... enesis.php

It doesn't have the same meaning! The figurative meaning of the term means that something comes out of the blue, i.e. an effect without a cause, i.e. miraculously! Just like Virgin Mary conceived Jesus Christ without a man's needed "assistance" …if that was possible!

[Andros]

Observer,

I am sure that there is a lot of room for good will regarding the shape of a future unified Cypriot government, but I am not sure if the "External" forces will accept a unification deal without their hand in it - that's the part I find hard as a Greek Cypriot to accept. For instance, Turkish Soldiers remaining, Turkish settlers after 1974, British Bases remaining in a so-called demiliterised country.

A new agreement, according to President Christofias' way of thinking must be in unison. It must not contain any serious breech of double-standards, espeically with two very security and land sensitive Cypriot people.

If we are to be forced in accepting a two constituent deal with a loose government, will that mean that the Constituent governments will be able to over-ride the terms and day-to-day decisions of the loose federal government? Like what was in the Annan Plan. If that's the outlook, then I would prefer to remain as we are, at least we presently know our boundaries and redlines.

[Oracle]

...since in reality there is no such thing like a “virgin birth” in this univerese!

Kifeas .... not meaning to be pedantic but parthenogenesis is fairly common in the lower animal species ......

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... shark.html
http://members.aol.com/Attic21/CreatureofDay/whip.html
http://home.pcisys.net/~dlblanc/article ... enesis.php

It doesn't have the same meaning! The figurative meaning of the term means that something comes out of the blue, i.e. an effect without a cause, i.e. miraculously! Just like Virgin Mary conceived Jesus Christ without a man's needed "assistance" …if that was possible!

Yeah I know, I've seen you use it often, I just didn't want some learned Turk ( ) to pick you up on it ....

Perhaps a little refinement / novelty "Spontaneous Combustion" or maybe "Matter can neither be Created nor Destroyed".

I'll just shut up and read instead ....

[observer]

Observer,

I am sure that there is a lot of room for good will regarding the shape of a future unified Cypriot government, but I am not sure if the "External" forces will accept a unification deal without their hand in it - that's the part I find hard as a Greek Cypriot to accept. For instance, Turkish Soldiers remaining, Turkish settlers after 1974, British Bases remaining in a so-called demiliterised country.

A new agreement, according to President Christofias' way of thinking must be in unison. It must not contain any serious breech of double-standards, espeically with two very security and land sensitive Cypriot people.

If we are to be forced in accepting a two constituent deal with a loose government, will that mean that the Constituent governments will be able to over-ride the terms and day-to-day decisions of the loose federal government? Like what was in the Annan Plan. If that's the outlook, then I would prefer to remain as we are, at least we presently know our boundaries and redlines.

This is only my opinion, but I think that most of the "external powers" are sick to death of Cyprus, which in 2008 hardly matters to them. If TC and GC were to reach an agreement by themselves there would be a huge international sigh of relief. The 'motherlands' politics are not what they were even 5 years ago, and I don't think I am exaggerating to say that Greece and Turkey are friendlier today that GC and TC.

I think you would be surprised how may TCs would be willing to see most of the Turkish military go, some would be prepared to see them all go. In any case, I think that the proposed 950 Greek soldiers and the 650 Turkish soldiers proposed in the A Plan were not enough to do much harm to anybody. Especially given the warmer relations between Greece and Turkey. Seen through my eyes (and forget fault) in 1963, 1967 and 1974 GCs physically attacked TCs and the 1960 constitution. It hasn't happened since 1974. I like to think that it has not happened again since 1974 because of the increased political maturity of all concerned, but a little bit of me says that it might be because of all those Turkish soldiers!

As for the settlers, most came in the years immediately after 1974. Turkish visitors now need visas just like people from every other country. I read in the paper recently that TRNC citizenship has been given to about 60 people (can't find the paper so can't find the clipping) over the last 3 years - and that's all nationalities. In addition, TRNC citizenship was removed from about 1,300 people who had been given it irregularly. (Perhaps Halil can supply the reference). Whatever happened in the past, it is not wholesale immigration that GC propaganda paints.

As seen by you, maybe early settlers are a problem, but most have now been here 30 years or so. Independent surveys indicate that there are about 40,000, many born in Cyprus - I believe it's a fact that when the TRNC tried to fill the quota of 45,000 as under the A Plan they could only find about 41,000 names. It seems to me that letting them stay, especially since many would be entitled to stay anyway because of marriage or being born in Cyprus, is not a big problem.

The British Bases don't really come into this discussion, but a united Cyprus would be a stronger force for them leaving than a divided one.

As for the style of the loose federation, that is for the negotiations, but it should be on the lines of who does what.

A Central government, for example, would be responsible for defence, external affairs, airports and so on ... you can make up your own list.

The 'zone' government would be responsible for education, health, roads, building permissions ... once again, make up your own list.

Will there be disagreements? Of course there will be disagreements - there are disagreements now between one GC and another GC, and one TC and another TC. But with a constitution defining who is responsible for what, a constitutional court to sort out grey areas, and a little good will, I imagine that we will not be much worse off than any other federal country.