Cyprus-Forum.com

[Oracle]

I responded bu the way you've worded the questions leaves little room for any other answwer.

The poll is just a small part of this thread. You could just write your opinion about it.

Oracle, what you described sounds more like your ideal than your "red lines". Sure, the Turks and most TCs are not only uncompromising, but they expect gains on our loss as well. But that is not about them, this is about us and our island.

I always said that there are can be many agreements, but only one solution. Here we are just talking about the next agreement and not a final solution.

A pre-requisite to this next agreement is not be to bring to Cyprus the ideal, but to create something better than what we have today without at the same time making a real solution in the future impossible.

I see.

We are talking "stepping-stones" towards a solution.

Well I would like to choose the next stepping stone to put my foot on, without Turkish troops holding me at gun-point to help me choose the most desirable stepping stone on which to place my foot.

So does "Vacate Turkish troops from Cyprus" constitute a "red line" towards the next "Agreement" ... or is that viewed as an "ideal" and hence a stumbling block?

[Sotos]

The red line is to give as more of the occupied areas back, to share power in proportional way, the Turkish troops to go, and most Settlers to go also. I not would vote yes to a plan that doesn't do the above! In the poll I voted the first option but I don't think they will do that. But I think it is very easy for them to make surveys to understand what people will accept and what they will not accept. It would be the most stupid thing if they think they know what people want and they agree to some solution and then people reject it in referendum!!

[Piratis]

The immediate withdrawal of the Turkish army should be a red line in my opinion. Without this happening then Turkey would be in the position to stop any agreement from being implemented, or rather stop GCs getting any benefits from any agreement, while TCs would get all of theirs from day one.

When in areas like Bosnia and Kosovo they can have EU and NATO forces as the security I think it is a very very cheap excuse from the Turkish side to claim that Turkish troops are required for the protection of TCs, especially when Cyprus will be demilitarized.

[Oracle]

The immediate withdrawal of the Turkish army should be a red line in my opinion. Without this happening then Turkey would be in the position to stop any agreement from being implemented, or rather stop GCs getting any benefits from any agreement, while TCs would get all of theirs from day one.

When in areas like Bosnia and Kosovo they can have EU and NATO forces as the security I think it is a very very cheap excuse from the Turkish side to claim that Turkish troops are required for the protection of TCs, especially when Cyprus will be demilitarized.

Piratis .... what do you mean? When will Cyprus be demilitarized?

[cypezokyli]

1. Do you think it is clear what this "BBF" is?

yes

If yes, then explain to us what you think it is, and tell us if you accept it.

simple:

two zones, with each community having a mojority in each federal state.
veto power to both.

i accept it

3. Is there a kind of "BBF" that you would accept, and a kind of "BBF" that you wouldn't?

The term BBF only refers to structure of the new state. this point appears to be the most difficult to agree on.

It does not tell us what will happen with the armies, the settlers, the land (ok... on this it partly tells us) , security etc etc. i dont think the "term" ever had an ambition to give us all the answers. these will be agreed by our wise leaders...


in as such, i repeat that i accept BBF

4. What are your "red lines" that if are not met you would definitely reject a "BBF solution" that does not meet them?

since i believe it is a pretty straight forward term, defining something very specific ii am not sure if the term "BBF solution" is an appropriate term.

for example, i might have a red line concerning security.... but that is not part of BBF.... its part of a general settlement[/quote]

[Piratis]

1. Do you think it is clear what this "BBF" is?

yes

If yes, then explain to us what you think it is, and tell us if you accept it.

simple:

two zones, with each community having a mojority in each federal state.
veto power to both.

i accept it

Where out of the term "BBF" you get the "veto power to both" part?

And what are your "red lines" for a the solution in general?

[cypezokyli]

in the Bicomunal "B" of the "BBF"

[DT.]

in the Bicomunal "B" of the "BBF"

so you support 2 ethnically "majority clean" states? Or is that your definition of the term Bi-Zonal?

[Piratis]

in the Bicomunal "B" of the "BBF"

I read the B, but where is the V for "Veto"? Bicommunal means "two communities". The term doesn't say anything about veto.

[Nikitas]

I am a little cynical about the prospect of any solution lasting as long as Turkey has long term plans for Cyprus, and the Turkish Army is the center of Turkish foreign policy. But we have to play along as if this is not the case.

So, any solution must take into account the possiblity that at some future point an engineered deadlock will lead to secession of the north. If that happens we cannot do much to stop it. But we can foresee the possibility now and incorporate elemets in a solution which will at least avoid bloodshed and unilateral claims against the GC side.

So- there must a clear definition of territory to be under TC control and an understanding that this territory is part of the island and not the RoC. Which means that if and when the British leave the SBAs revert to GC control with no arguments. The TC side must declare that it has no claims to any other part of the island and will not raise such claims in the future regardless of demographic changes or any other change.

If there is any kind of deadlock in the future then the objecting state will not be able to block matters in the other state. Ie if they object to some income tax rate at the federal level they will not block life in the local level.

If we are talking demilitarization I want an objective body of observers to monitor the whole of the island long term to ensuer that there is not clandestine arms buildup or preparation as happened in both sides from 1960 to 1963.

The new state will be the RoC with amended constitution. Or at the very least the GC federal component is agreed to be the continuation of the RoC and should the federation ever break up then the RoC is reinstated.

No single nation guarantees- or guarantees by the known three suspects, UK, GR and TK. If they come in as guarantors then so must the whole of the EU. and agree to act in concert. No unilateral right of intervention.

If there is a violation of sovereignty by another nation, ie Israel, who defends us? We ask the two motherlands to come in and help? Not such a good idea. Neither is being defenceless.

Turkish army and settlers leave. No compromise on that. Settlers being allowed when hundreds of thousands of Cypriots are living overseas is an insult. Compensate them and send them to their home villages. Those that become Cypriot through marriage are another matter.

Rights of establishment and residence etc are already taken care of by the EU aquis, no need to try to reinvent the wheel on that. ALthough my impression is that very few people will choose to live permanently in the "other" side, a lot of people will reclaim their businesses and cultivated lands. I foresee a lot of daily commuting for work.

Full restitution of all locations of cultural heritage.

As for red lines the presence of the Turkish army is one, as are the settlers. Been through that over and over in other threads.