Cyprus-Forum.com

[bill cobbett]

We don't give a rat's arse what crap was "agreed" by foreign powers... end of story!

The internationally recognized "agreement" you detest so much happens to have your signature on it sunshine...
You can't get rid of it no matter how hard you try..

It also has the signature of the RoT on it. RoT & co. can't expect others to honour what they've shat on, several times a day, for thirty-four years.

[Get Real!]

We don't give a rat's arse what crap was "agreed" by foreign powers... end of story!

The internationally recognized "agreement" you detest so much happens to have your signature on it sunshine...
You can't get rid of it no matter how hard you try..

And why is that? You run away from it in 1963 and have since declared it null and void haven't you?

We were kicked out and to return you tried to force us to accept Akritas, then you continued to hijack and use the "RoC" purely for your own cmmunities benefit.

Apparently, that’s NOT what the United Nations thinks so try again…

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/cyprus16220.html

[Jerry]

Never Jerry, never! Sharing the country between two politically equal communities is the way to go about it. Forget about the numericals, they do not matter any more, in fact they stopped mattering in 1960 but we failed to understand what we agreed, rather conveniently.

Bananiot, I respect your views and aspirations but too much concrete has set in the north for GCs to agree to a solution that the TCs would find acceptable. They did not sell our land and import settlers to put pressure on us , they did it to force partition. The best we can hope for is to get half of it back. I would love to see the country reunited pre 1955 without the colonial masters but unfortunately it won't happen.
I must correct your reference to 1960 - we failed to understand what we were forced to agree - that's why the 1960 treaties failed - they were not freely agreed

[Oracle]

We don't give a rat's arse what crap was "agreed" by foreign powers... end of story!

The internationally recognized "agreement" you detest so much happens to have your signature on it sunshine...
You can't get rid of it no matter how hard you try..

I didn't think GR! was born then, let alone able to hold a pen ....

Precocious or what!

P.S. GR! ... you should have used disappearing ink, man!

[Piratis]

Bananiot, how would somehting like Annan plan be a "solution"? How was it any better than standard partition?

So say we agree on partition where some land is given back and some GCs are allowed to return in the occupied areas? Not many would, but not many would under "TC administration" with Annan plan anyways.

How was Annan plan any better than the above???

Would it give to us the north part of our country? No, in both cases the absolute masters would be the Turks

Would it make us more safe? No. The Turkish troops today are illegally occupying a sovereign country against UN resolutions. I highly doubt they would have any problem to simply violate some time table in some agreement, especially when the "TC component state" and our "politically equal partners" would fully support them. On the other hand our own army would be dissolved, and Turkish Settlers would be free to roam in our streets. Personally I would feel much less safe.

Would it make us richer? No. Now we have ECHR, and even with their pseudo commision they have to pay for compensations. With Annan plan we would have to pay ourselves. Furthermore, we would have put the TCs in EU from the window, and with EU money and our taxes we would have helped them so they can compete with us.

Would it make Cyprus more democratic? No, and I don't need to say more about this.

Would it make Cyprus more stable? No. Another "63" would be around the corner, either when GCs had enough crap, or when TCs decided that they sucked as much from us as it was possible and now they wanted a clean partition.

Would it give us more power? No. We are the 82% and we would be undemocratically reduced to 50%. As a result we would have no international voice, or any veto or other powers in EU.

So what did Annan partition plan solve? The only thing that it gave to us (some land) is something that we could get with any partition plan.

[Kifeas]

Turkey will not work towards a solution to the Cyprus problem until France and Germany drop their objections to that country's EU membership. Why should Turkey recognise the ROC, normalise relationships and agree to talks only to have its EU aspirations dashed by those two countries after a solution is found. The "EU weapon" that Cyprus acquired in 2004 has been taken away by France and Germany. The US, Britain and the other Turcophiles will continue to dangle the EU carrot in front of Turkey but that country's EU membership will not happen for decades, if ever.
An optimist might hope that, with the above in mind, Turkey would bend over backwards to convince those doubting EU members that it is prepared to do whatever is necessary to join the club but that would probably provoke another military coup, and we would be back to square one.
I would dearly like to see a united country soon but I'm not going to hold my breath. I believe the most likely outcome is an agreed partition with more favourable terms than the GCs could ever have expected. Turkey will have its base in north Cyprus for its military dinosaurs to strut around, the GCs will have most of their country back, the settlers will have to squeeze into the much smaller TRNC along with the British carpetbaggers and if there is any room left a few Turkish Cypriots will remain.

Sadly, I have to say that I also agree with Jerry's assessment of the situation and the available options! I just feel sorry for those few TCs that genuinely believed and may still believe in the reunification of our country, but unfortunately Turkey and their leadership made it a non-feasible and totally unpalatable option for the GC side! The most sensible approach by our side is to start preparing the international community that we too may be ready for an agreed partition, in exchange of serious territorial returns (including substantial coastline areas) that will approximate the legally acceptable demographic and land ownership ratios! I say sadly, and I mean it, considering that I am one of those GCs originating from an area (Kyrenia) that will most probably be among the ones to be lost for the GC community! Unfortunately, the two communities and their world views are largely incompatible to each other!

[Viewpoint]

The AP gave you Maraş, the return of over 90.000 refugees, a further 8% of land, the removal of the Turkish Army, return of a certain amount of settlers, a united Federal structure, 1 external identity, 1 flag 1 national anthem, best of all the chance to build a united Cyprus, you GCs do no exude any confidence that you will do the right thing and share, you appear to fighting for a structure that will allow you to do whatever you wish without any obstructions whether we object or not. This does not bode well with try to build trust and understand and only fuels a need to more and more measures to ensure you are not allowed to whatever you wish in a united Cyprus.

[Bananiot]

The 1959 agreements were not imposed on us. We could have said a loud "NO" then and carried on with the glorious armed struggle. They were the natural result of an ill-thought tactical decision to pursue enosis via an armed struggle. Mistakes are always paid for and the price we had to pay in 1959 was a very small one, considering the stupidity we showed prior to the agreements. Yet, we failed (the usual story) to seize on the opportunity and work for the best, under the circumstances. On top, we thought we could deceive the whole world and bring enosis through the window. To this extend we organised paramilitary groups that were to keep a check on the Turkish Cypriots had they interfered with our struggle to achieve our objective. Again we paid dearly for our short sightedness but it looks as though some people never learn.

A tiny country like ours can only rely on serious diplomatic moves if it is going to survive and prosper in an environment that can become very nasty. This means that we should become serious and appear to be serious in our dealings with the international community and our partners. Every time we pursued the maximum, we lost friends and ended badly wounded. Yet, this simple truth cannot be comprehended by some, who still seek, even today, the ideal. Yesterday, at the memorial service of EOKA hero Afxentiou, Christofias and Anastasiades were jeered by a crowed of Greek flag bearers who were chanting "Greece, Cyprus enosis" and "down with those that support federation". I hear what DT is saying, that many people are against BBF, but these people have never told us what the alternative is and above all, how it is going to be pursued.

I also understand what Jerry is saying but partition is not the answer. In the long run it will mean the end of Cyprus. Many people now agree that if a compromise solution is not found, we will not avoid partition. They also agree that time is running out on us. Thus, before we go on and set aims that are not feasible, it must never escape us that the other option is the end of history for Cypriots.

[Kifeas]

The 1959 agreements were not imposed on us. We could have said a loud "NO" then and carried on with the glorious armed struggle. They were the natural result of an ill-thought tactical decision to pursue enosis via an armed struggle. Mistakes are always paid for and the price we had to pay in 1959 was a very small one, considering the stupidity we showed prior to the agreements. Yet, we failed (the usual story) to seize on the opportunity and work for the best, under the circumstances. On top, we thought we could deceive the whole world and bring enosis through the window. To this extend we organised paramilitary groups that were to keep a check on the Turkish Cypriots had they interfered with our struggle to achieve our objective. Again we paid dearly for our short sightedness but it looks as though some people never learn.

A tiny country like ours can only rely on serious diplomatic moves if it is going to survive and prosper in an environment that can become very nasty. This means that we should become serious and appear to be serious in our dealings with the international community and our partners. Every time we pursued the maximum, we lost friends and ended badly wounded. Yet, this simple truth cannot be comprehended by some, who still seek, even today, the ideal. Yesterday, at the memorial service of EOKA hero Afxentiou, Christofias and Anastasiades were jeered by a crowed of Greek flag bearers who were chanting "Greece, Cyprus enosis" and "down with those that support federation". I hear what DT is saying, that many people are against BBF, but these people have never told us what the alternative is and above all, how it is going to be pursued.

I also understand what Jerry is saying but partition is not the answer. In the long run it will mean the end of Cyprus. Many people now agree that if a compromise solution is not found, we will not avoid partition. They also agree that time is running out on us. Thus, before we go on and set aims that are not feasible, it must never escape us that the other option is the end of history for Cypriots.

Aside from my disagreement to the most part of your analysis, I have to highlight your pathetic attempt to make an issue of the fact that a handful of idiots chanted the slogan "Greece, Cyprus enosis!" How many in the GC society, nowadays, subscribe to such an idea Bananiot? Half a percent, 1% of the society, how much? There are probably more neo-Nazis in Israel, than there are GCs subscribing to this “enosis” idea, yet you choose to make it an issue so that you hope you will pass your pathetic, equally minority approach on what we should or should not accept as a solution in Cyprus! Pathetic!

[Bananiot]

I made an issue of it? What a ridiculous notion. It was first news on all TV stations last night! Anyway, it looks as though you have finally made your choice. It took you a long time to decide between bloodshed and partition but you finally made your choice. I just wonder what % percentage the partitionists, like yourself, are in the south.