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An Honourable Settler

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby DT. » Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:32 pm

Piratis wrote:Bananiot, you confuse solution with "agreement". The two are not necessarily the same, and in the case of Annan plan the two where contradictory.

A solution is the one that solves the problem that we have, not just an agreement that would make our problem bigger and even more difficult to solve by legalizing the violations against us.

I like it how easily you say that anything that the other side rejects is utopian and can not happen, but you consider our side the whore that should accept whatever. No, it is equally utopian to expect that GCs will ever accept to make their own problem bigger so TCs will solve their problem and Turkey will remove the Cyprus obstacle from her EU accession.

What happened in 2004 is just one thing. Cyprus was about to enter the EU and that would create a problem to Turkey. The change in policy by Turkey, the change of Denctash with Talat and everything else was not a coincidence, but somehting that happened as a result. The Annan plan was designed to solve the problem of Turkey (not our problem), either by legalizing the illegalities in Cyprus and removing the international voice of Cypriots and any veto powers they would have in EU, or by throwing the blame of no solution to Greek Cypriots and declaring Turkey as innocent for the problem.

We are more than willing to share this country with the TC minority in a just and proportional way. But if some expect that we will return to a system like the one of the Ottoman rule, where people were divided between low class Christians and higher class Muslims then they can forget about it. This is our island and we will sign it off to nobody. They can occupy our lands against our will like the many other invadors did, but don't hope that such arrangement can bring peace because Cypriot people can not stand slavery. (most of us at least, there are always some Bananiots)


The point is ONE and a very simple ONE.

WHY WOULD ANY GC OR TC FOR THAT MATTER ACCEPT SOMETHING THAT MIGHT MAKE THEIR CURRENT WAY OF LIFE WORSE?

Why would someone from Limassol vote for something like the AP when the only gain for the GC's is land that is nowhere near Limassol.The governing power they would give up would far outweigh any territorial gains we would make.

In my view the marketing effort needs to be done to the GC side as I consider a BBF solution as mana from heaven for the TC's. Christofias has already confirmed that any solution would be based on the political equality of the 2 communities.

As far as I'm concerned after talking with many people during the whole election process (mostly in their 30's) I sense a lack of willingness to accept the BBF anymore. Its like Bananiot said, not many people knew what was being negotiated all those years. Now they;ve seen, heard and understand that a BBF is beginning to sound like a step down in quality of life.

Bir and Miltiades make a lot of sense ....however they live abroad and are not witnessing the mood of the current population.
Bananiot is of a very small minority over here which is represented by Themistocleous in the elections (managed to gain 0.17% of the vote)

I myself await anxiously for the first statement of Talat after the first meeting. If he starts addressing the world instead of Cyprus then know that he is preparing the world to know that he is doing everything in his power and after these talks fail....he'll expect recognition.
If he addresses Cyprus then we're on a good track.
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Postby Jerry » Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:55 pm

Turkey will not work towards a solution to the Cyprus problem until France and Germany drop their objections to that country's EU membership. Why should Turkey recognise the ROC, normalise relationships and agree to talks only to have its EU aspirations dashed by those two countries after a solution is found. The "EU weapon" that Cyprus acquired in 2004 has been taken away by France and Germany. The US, Britain and the other Turcophiles will continue to dangle the EU carrot in front of Turkey but that country's EU membership will not happen for decades, if ever.
An optimist might hope that, with the above in mind, Turkey would bend over backwards to convince those doubting EU members that it is prepared to do whatever is necessary to join the club but that would probably provoke another military coup, and we would be back to square one.
I would dearly like to see a united country soon but I'm not going to hold my breath. I believe the most likely outcome is an agreed partition with more favourable terms than the GCs could ever have expected. Turkey will have its base in north Cyprus for its military dinosaurs to strut around, the GCs will have most of their country back, the settlers will have to squeeze into the much smaller TRNC along with the British carpetbaggers and if there is any room left a few Turkish Cypriots will remain.
Last edited by Jerry on Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby DT. » Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:56 pm

Jerry wrote:Turkey will not work towards a solution to the Cyprus problem until France and Germany drop their objections to that country's EU membership. Why should Turkey recognise the ROC, normalise relationships and agree to talks only to have its EU aspirations dashed by those two countries after a solution is found. The "EU weapon" that Cyprus acquired in 2004 has been taken away by France and Germany. The US, Britain and the other Turcophiles will continue to dangle the EU carrot in front of Turkey but that country's EU membership will not happen for decades, if ever.
An optimist might hope that, with the above in mind, Turkey would bend over backwards to convince those doubting EU members that it is prepared to do whatever is necessary to join the club but that would probably provoke another militaty coup, and we would be back to square one.
I would dearly like to see a united country soon but I'm not going to hold my breath. I believe the most likely outcome is an agreed partition with more favourable terms than the GCs could ever have expected. Turkey will have its base in north Cyprus for its military dinosaurs to strut around, the GCs will have most of their country back, the settlers will have to squeeze into the much smaller TRNC along with the British carpetbaggers and if there is any room left a few Turkish Cypriots will remain.


The Matsakis solution
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Postby Bananiot » Sun Mar 02, 2008 11:03 pm

You also think that the truth is a matter of statistics! I am amazed, I thought this is a Piratis prerogative. Themistocleous used to get 87% approval rates when he was airing his views prior to the elections on all tv stations that conducted measurements. You know pretty well DT that his views are not shared by only the small percentage he got in the elections. Many more people think like Themistocleous but gave their vote elsewhere and you know the reason why. For a start, Anastasiades is a close friend of Themistocleous and I can tell you that they share a common aspiration for the kind of solution (not agreement, my God Piratis, you are unbelievable) that can bring an end to the plight of Cyprus.
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Postby Bananiot » Sun Mar 02, 2008 11:08 pm

Never Jerry, never! Sharing the country between two politically equal communities is the way to go about it. Forget about the numericals, they do not matter any more, in fact they stopped mattering in 1960 but we failed to understand what we agreed, rather conveniently.
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Postby Get Real! » Sun Mar 02, 2008 11:28 pm

Bananiot wrote:Never Jerry, never! Sharing the country between two politically equal communities is the way to go about it. Forget about the numericals, they do not matter any more, in fact they stopped mattering in 1960 but we failed to understand what we agreed, rather conveniently.

Quit promoting anti-democratic crap if you're to have any credibility left...

We don't give a rat's arse what crap was "agreed" by foreign powers... end of story!
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Postby DT. » Sun Mar 02, 2008 11:37 pm

Bananiot wrote:You also think that the truth is a matter of statistics! I am amazed, I thought this is a Piratis prerogative. Themistocleous used to get 87% approval rates when he was airing his views prior to the elections on all tv stations that conducted measurements. You know pretty well DT that his views are not shared by only the small percentage he got in the elections. Many more people think like Themistocleous but gave their vote elsewhere and you know the reason why. For a start, Anastasiades is a close friend of Themistocleous and I can tell you that they share a common aspiration for the kind of solution (not agreement, my God Piratis, you are unbelievable) that can bring an end to the plight of Cyprus.


There's an entire generation of voters out there who do not see the point in a BBF. Its an uphill mkting effort, that was my point.
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Postby iceman » Sun Mar 02, 2008 11:43 pm

Get Real! wrote:We don't give a rat's arse what crap was "agreed" by foreign powers... end of story!


The internationally recognized "agreement" you detest so much happens to have your signature on it sunshine... :wink:
You can't get rid of it no matter how hard you try.. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby Get Real! » Sun Mar 02, 2008 11:45 pm

iceman wrote:
Get Real! wrote:We don't give a rat's arse what crap was "agreed" by foreign powers... end of story!


The internationally recognized "agreement" you detest so much happens to have your signature on it sunshine... :wink:
You can't get rid of it no matter how hard you try.. :lol: :lol: :lol:

And why is that? You run away from it in 1963 and have since declared it null and void haven't you?
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Postby Viewpoint » Sun Mar 02, 2008 11:50 pm

Get Real! wrote:
iceman wrote:
Get Real! wrote:We don't give a rat's arse what crap was "agreed" by foreign powers... end of story!


The internationally recognized "agreement" you detest so much happens to have your signature on it sunshine... :wink:
You can't get rid of it no matter how hard you try.. :lol: :lol: :lol:

And why is that? You run away from it in 1963 and have since declared it null and void haven't you?


We were kicked out and to return you tried to force us to accept Akritas, then you continued to hijack and use the "RoC" purely for your own cmmunities benefit.
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