Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kikapu]

Dirty Harry, refused to counter the invasion theory he had and what was the role of the guarantors... owned big time...

Now he moved away from his theory to something else...again talking shit...

Boomer, did you say "Dirty Harry" has a book, and if so, what is the tittle.??

Some weird story that even the ATCA boys didn' want to get...and he is very sore about that...

I will try and get it for you...I think it was called love and death in Cyprus...It was a fairy tale about a love story between a pom and TC girl...and a lot of bullshit in between...this is quite evident by the way he debates...

If the forum he was posting was a proper debate forum he would have been disqualified...He didn't counter any of the other people s arguments...he just spat the dummy in all directions...The other debaters countered his arguments...and by him, harry shooting his mouth in all directions, he proved once again, he is talking shit...

He was especially sore that the north didn't promote it...go figure...He was even more sore when an Armenian book made the top 10 in New York... ...all this at the ATCA web site...

Pure comedy...Some of the guys at ATCA said that they didn't have the money to buy it... ...I think to shut him up

Thanks Boomer for the information.

I for one do not go into ATCA site.

I would rather go into my own toilet instead!!

[boomerang]

Sorry but I need my daily dose of comedy...

[zan]

by Ahmet Cosar

Cyprus formed part of the Ottoman Empire from 1571 to 1914, when it was formally annexed by Great Britain at the beginning of World War I. In 1950s the revival of "Hellenism" and the ideal of re- building the great "Hellen Empire" started a bloody struggle in Cyprus, Enosis, in other words the annexation of Cyprus by Greece. The religious leader of Greek Cypriots, Archbishop Makarios, was the head of the movement and there were massive terrorist attacks on British rulers and Turkish Cypriots who didn't share this "ideal". The numbers show that between 1955 and 1960, 508 people were murdered and 1,260 people were wounded in these attacks by EOKA, a Greek Cypriot terrorist organization, under the leadership of an ex- colonel from the Greek army, Grivas[2].

By 1958 it had become clear that it was not possible to achieve Enosis. Turkish Cypriots, just like Greek Cypriots, wanted self- determination and freedom and they didn't want to be a mere "minority" which, soon after independence, would be "persuaded" to leave Cyprus. In 1959 the Greek side accepted the formation of an independent republic in which Turkish Cypriots would be one of the two equal partners. However, what Greek side understood from "independence" was merely "a step before Enosis" as it was soon discovered. Knowing the Greek aim of Enosis, the Republic of Cyprus was founded in 1960 with a detailed Constitution which strictly forbade the annexation of Cyprus by any country. Furthermore permanent guarantees were written in the Constitution of Cyprus so that the "independent democracy" would not turn into a "dictatorship of majority"[3]. Nevertheless, beginning right after the foundation of Cyprus in 1960, the Greek Cypriots made it clear that they had not given up the struggle for Enosis. Makarios, also first President of Cyprus, made the following public declaration:

"The Zurich and London Agreements form a landmark in the course of this struggle, but, at the same time, are a starting point for further struggles, with the object of capitalising on what has been achieved for further conquests",

on 5 January 1962. On 15 August 1962, in Kykko monastery, he reiterated that Enosis was his aim and said:

"Greek Cypriots must continue to march forward to complete the work began by the EOKA heroes."

He also made the following provocative remark at his native village of Panayia on 4 September 1962:

"Until this small Turkish community that forms part of the Turkish race which has been the terrible enemy of Hellenism is expelled, the duty to the heroes of EOKA cannot be considered as terminated."

In 1962, Polykarpos Yorkadjis, Minister of Interior, declared that:

"There is no place in Cyprus for anyone who is not Greek, who does not think Greek and who does not constantly feel Greek."

Meanwhile, the Cyprus Broadcasting Corporation regularly broadcast virulently anti-Turkish plays. In one play, a mother asks her son what her son wants to become; the boy replies:

- "a hero."

When she asks him,:

- "What will you bring to us?",

he answers:

- "I am going to bring seven Turkish heads to you [4]."

In fact the Akritas plan, published by Greek Cypriot newspaper Patris on 21 April 1966, was a clear proof of the fact that Greek Cypriot side deliberately tried to prove the constitution as unworkable and to replace it with a settlement in order to re-open the way to Enosis. It was disclosed that Archbishop Makarios had assumed responsibility for the implementation of the plan and he had appointed Polycarpos Georkadjis to be the "Chief Akritas". In an interview with the Italian journalist Oriana Fallaci, Makarios said how Ioannides (a Greek officer in the Greek contingent on Cyprus) and Nikos Sampson, a bloody EOKA terrorist leader responsible from the "execution squads" of EOKA, came to him one day in 1964 and told:

"Your Beatitude, here is my project. To attack the Turkish Cypriots on the island, and eliminate them to the last one [5]."

Ioannides was the leader of the fascist Greek Junta in 1974 and Nikos Sampson was declared the "president" with the Coup organized by Athens, and their plan was still as revealed by Makarios. Knowing these facts it is easy to understand the reasons behind the Turkish fears for the security of Turkish Cypriots and the decision for intervention. In fact after the intervention it was found out that in Sandallaris village the whole population of 57, and at Maratha village 82 Turkish Cypriots were massacred and buried in mass-graves, among the victims were babies, women, and elderly people. In Tokhni village all able-bodied male Turkish inhabitants (50 in number) were taken by the Greek Cypriot National Guard soldiers to the outskirts of Ayia Phyla village in Limassol district where they were massacred and buried in a pre-opened pit together with about 40 Turks from Tatlisu (Mari)[6].

Greek people, repeating the official Greek claim, tell us that more than 2,000 Greek Cypriots were/are "missing". For some strange reason they forget to tell us that a Greek Cypriot Priest, Father Papatsetsos, made a declaration to Greek newspapers saying that he had personally buried 127 people, 10 of them were Turkish Cypriots, and all of them were murdered by EOKA-B terrorists and the Greek National Guard(there were violent clashes between left-wing and right-wing Greek Cypriots after the Coup in 1974)[7] . On 23 July 1974, The Times of London quoted the American wife of Dr. Lyssarides (head of the EDEK party) saying that many supporters of Makarios had been massacred during and after the coup. On 25 July 1974 Combat published in Belgium, reported:

"it has been confirmed that during the days following the coup at least 2,000 of Makarios's supporters have either been killed in the fighting or executed."

A report in Washington Star News said similar things:

"Bodies littered the streets and there were mass burials."

Until this day Greek Cypriot Government has rejected to open these mass-graves and to reveal the identities of these people, mainly to continue the Greek propaganda of "missing Greeks". The fact is that, the question of missing persons was investigated by International Committee of Red Cross (ICRC). The ICRC representative stated categorically in the presence of the UN Secretary-General's Special Representative in Cyprus that all POWs were delivered to the Greek side. This fact was also confirmed in the report of the head of the ICRC dated 18 March 1977. At the time there were only 23-24 cases pending investigation, and the Turkish side is ready to investigate these cases along with hundreds of Turkish Cypriots who are missing since 1963[8]. As for the "atrocity stories" made up by Greek side, a report by the Study Mission of the Sub-committee of the Judiciary of the US Senate (October 1974), about the first phase of the Turkish military operation, said:

"Whenever and wherever the Study Mission talked with Greek Cypriot refugees, the story was basically the same: people moved the instant they saw or thought the Turkish army was advancing towards their town or village."

About the second phase of the operation, the report says:

"Greek Cypriots fled the moment there was rumor or sight of military forces - creating a virtual vacuum into which the Turkish army could and did move without resistance and without the presence of people."

Since 1974 there have been many series of negotiations between Greek and Turkish Cypriots. All of these negotiations have been fruitless because of the Greek side's unwillingness to accept Turkish Cypriots' equality and the guarantee of their rights by Turkey. The Greek Cypriot side has been enjoying hundreds of millions of dollars of help from UN and EEC while the Turkish Cypriots have been denied all of their citizenship rights and share. What is worse, these helps have been used by Greek Cypriots for their military expenses which rose to $500 Million between 1977-87 and $762 Million are envisaged for 1990-93 period. Today there are less than 20,000 Turkish soldiers in Cyprus as opposed to more than 15,000 Greek mainland troops and the Greek National Guard includes 21,000 troops and with reserves reaches 85,000. Former EOKA members are still in powerful government positions and not a single Greek Cypriot has been punished for their acts during 1974 Coup. Even Nikos Sampson has been allowed to leave Cyprus, with the pretext of being treated, and has not returned from France for years and when he did he was greeted as a "hero". Finally, I am finishing my article with the words of the Greek Cypriot Defense Minister, Mr. Alonetis, on 11 March 1989:

"At the first opportunity we get, the Greek Cypriot National Guard will attack and regain by force of arms our occupied lands."

Therefore, nobody was surprised when Greek Cypriots began moving their forces to the Turkish Cypriot border during the recent Gulf-Crisis, hoping that Iraq would attack Turkey.

I believe the latest UN-Resolution in the Cyprus Problem must guide both Greeks and Turks to the correct path:

Resolution 649, 1990

[...]
"Calls upon the leaders of the two communities to pursue their efforts to reach freely a mutually acceptable solution providing for the establishment of a federation that will be BI-COMMUNAL as regards the constitutional aspects and BI-ZONAL as regards the territorial aspects in line with the present resolution and their 1977 and 1979 agreements, and to co-operate, on an EQUAL FOOTING, with the Secretary-General in completing, in the first instance and on an urgent basis, an outline of an overall agreement, as agreed in june 1989."

[miltiades]

Zan , do you accept that the G/Cs formed some 80% of the population while the T/Cs a mere 18% and IF you do , which I doubt very much , do you not consider the wishes of the overwhelming majority to have been utterly unreasonable , unjustified and undemocratic ?
Perhaps you can then tell us whether the overwhelming majority of Turkish people in Turkey have a right to suppress and ignore the existence of the 20 % or so of the Kurdish people.

The difference however is we , in Cyprus , have now woken up and have rejected ENOSIS , further more some can say that since Cyprus and Greece are both members of the EU , "ENOSIS" has been achieved not only with Greece but with the rest of Europe.We have proven that we can manage our nation and its economy far better than either Greece or Turkey , so the ROC is indeed a vibrant European nation while the "TRNC" is a non recognised entity relying on handouts from Turkey, therefore cut the crap with all the nonsense you post in order to justify prolonging the division of our people . We are now all European citizens and I very much doubt whether many T/Cs would reject this in preference of a "union" with an under developed nation with huge social and political oddities that might just end up as an Islamic Republic with the consequences associated with such entities.

[Nikitas]

Zan, has already told us that he left the island when still a babe in arms. For the rest of us, who lived through the events and know first hand the above post is TOTAL BULLSHIT.

The first MASSIVE ATTACK by one community on the other was carried out by TURKISH CYPRIOTS in central Nicosia, where I lived and experienced it, and in the suburb of Omorfita. At the time of the attack the GCs were in total curfew imposed by the British. The first victims of TC rage were not in fact GCs, they were the Armenians of Nicosia.

EOKA did not respond to these attacks for some time and only after it warned that it would have to defend the GCs if the British did not. Again I have personal experience of this, an EOKA man came to our neighborhood in Nicosia and advised us on how to barricade doors and how to store heavy stuff on the roof to throw against mobs who came to our neighborhood. We were attacked twice in our street, two blocks away from Ledra street and very near the crossing which opened recently.

So Zan, do me a favor and cut the crap.

[zan]

Zan , do you accept that the G/Cs formed some 80% of the population while the T/Cs a mere 18% and IF you do , which I doubt very much , do you not consider the wishes of the overwhelming majority to have been utterly unreasonable , unjustified and undemocratic ?
Perhaps you can then tell us whether the overwhelming majority of Turkish people in Turkey have a right to suppress and ignore the existence of the 20 % or so of the Kurdish people.

The difference however is we , in Cyprus , have now woken up and have rejected ENOSIS , further more some can say that since Cyprus and Greece are both members of the EU , "ENOSIS" has been achieved not only with Greece but with the rest of Europe.We have proven that we can manage our nation and its economy far better than either Greece or Turkey , so the ROC is indeed a vibrant European nation while the "TRNC" is a non recognised entity relying on handouts from Turkey, therefore cut the crap with all the nonsense you post in order to justify prolonging the division of our people . We are now all European citizens and I very much doubt whether many T/Cs would reject this in preference of a "union" with an under developed nation with huge social and political oddities that might just end up as an Islamic Republic with the consequences associated with such entities.

For an old man your sımplıstıc vıew of what the majorıty were allowed to do and not take ınto account the condıtıons under wghıch they were tryıng to do ıt ıs about as chıldısh as ıt can get. There are twıce as many Trks ın Turkey as there are Greeks ın Greece so should they have rule over them or do you fınd that condıtıons for war. Your agenda does not allıow you to thınk straıgt as you have proved over and over agaın. You supported EOKA and now you support what they achıeved and want to benefıt from thıer spğoıls as ın the 'RoC'. Gıve up what yopu gaıned by TC bloodshed and I wıll gıve up my TRNC. You never answer the questıons put to you but stıll want to sell me your crap. Get your f***ING FOOT OUT OF MY DOOR AND GET OFF MY LAND.....I don,t want your wares.

[Nikitas]

Zan, you seem to be well connected with the chauvinist elements of the TC community. Why dont you find a TMT man who lived and took part in the troubles of 1958 and have him tell you what they did and where.

Go take a walk around the neighborhoods of Nicosia and see how that fits in with the notion that the TCs were under "Massive attack".

By what measure of imagination was Ermou street, Alexandrou street, and other streets with Greek names in the TC area? And why were they attacked and by whom? Who gave the orders? Who carried them out?

Do some first hand research for a change instead of copy pasting bullshit.

[zan]

Zan, has already told us that he left the island when still a babe in arms. For the rest of us, who lived through the events and know first hand the above post is TOTAL BULLSHIT.

The first MASSIVE ATTACK by one community on the other was carried out by TURKISH CYPRIOTS in central Nicosia, where I lived and experienced it, and in the suburb of Omorfita. At the time of the attack the GCs were in total curfew imposed by the British. The first victims of TC rage were not in fact GCs, they were the Armenians of Nicosia.

EOKA did not respond to these attacks for some time and only after it warned that it would have to defend the GCs if the British did not. Again I have personal experience of this, an EOKA man came to our neighborhood in Nicosia and advised us on how to barricade doors and how to store heavy stuff on the roof to throw against mobs who came to our neighborhood. We were attacked twice in our street, two blocks away from Ledra street and very near the crossing which opened recently.

So Zan, do me a favor and cut the crap.

You are so full of shıt re Nıkıtas......The above post ıs what makes the news not your sılly propaganda.....I don,t belıeve how shallow and braınwashed you people are....ENOSIS my frıend ıs what started ıt and tryıng to make your EOKA murderers look as some sort of restraıned peace keepers ıs sıckenıng. We protected our rıghts and our country not to mentıon ourr lıves wıth lımıted weapons and you tell me we were the attackers......Get a grıp man

[Kikapu]

Russia may recognize Georgia's separatist regions

Agence France-Presse
Monday, August 25, 2008

MOSCOW - Russia's parliament meets Monday to consider recognizing Georgia's two breakaway regions as independent, nearly three weeks after Russian troops rolled into the neighbouring republic.

Recognition would mean crossing a threshold for Moscow, which has backed the separatists in Abkhazia and South Ossetia since their break with Tbilisi in the early 1990s but stopped short of declaring them independent from Georgia.

Both houses of Russia's parliament are to convene emergency sessions to examine appeals for recognition from South Ossetia -- where fighting this month prompted Russia to send troops -- and Abkhazia.

Abkhazia and South Ossetia are internationally recognized as part of Georgia and a move to declare them independent countries is sure to anger Tbilisi and fuel the crisis in relations between Russia and the West.

The parliament of Abkhazia formally asked Moscow for recognition last week while South Ossetia's leader Eduard Kokoity traveled to Moscow at the weekend to present a similar request.

President Dmitry Medvedev last week signaled Moscow was ready to consider such a move, saying Russia would "make the decision which unambiguously supports the will of these two Caucasus peoples."

"I cannot rule out that the State Duma will appeal to the country's leadership to recognize the independence of Abkhazia," Oleg Morozov, deputy speaker of the State Duma lower house of parliament, was quoted as saying by Interfax.

But the real decision lies with the Kremlin rather than with Russia's compliant parliament.

If Moscow recognizes the two regions, the next steps are less clear -- but one possibility is outright annexation, under a 2001 law that allows states to join Russia if both sides agree.

South Ossetia in particular has lobbied hard to join Russia so it can be united with the Russian republic of North Ossetia, home to the same Ossetian ethnic group.

Previous attempts by South Ossetia to join Russia have failed. In 2004, Russia's constitutional court ruled that South Ossetia could not be annexed unless Georgia agreed to let go of it.

But if Moscow recognizes the two regions, it could then annex them as they will be considered independent states, said Suren Avakyan, a constitutional law expert at Moscow State University.

"Once the independence of South Ossetia and Abkhazia is recognized, these territories, as independent states, can ask Russia to admit them, which is perfectly allowed by the Russian constitution," Avakyan told AFP.

Other experts doubt however that Moscow would risk pouring fuel on the fire by annexing them.

"Right after the conflict with Georgia, Russia would look very indecent if it immediately annexed South Ossetia and Abkhazia," said Yevgeny Volk, of the US-based Heritage Foundation.

"Russia will be perfectly content if they are pseudo-independent states," Volk added, drawing a parallel with Northern Cyprus, which is only recognised by Turkey.

As lawmakers meet in Moscow, the situation in Kosovo will be casting a long shadow.

The province unilaterally declared independence from Serbia in February and was recognized by the United States and European states despite Moscow's fierce opposition.

"The wisest thing to do at this point, like in Kosovo, would be to recognize their self-styled governments, and maybe give them a 10-year stabilization period," said Georgy Tikhonov, a former Duma deputy.

Russia poured troops and armour into Georgia this month to repel a Georgian attack on South Ossetia that began August 7.

Russian troops drove Georgians out of the two regions, giving the separatists full control over the territories and Moscow has since said they will not be allowed to return.

Moscow had also vehemently opposed Georgia's attempts to enter NATO, and Tbilisi has accused Moscow of using conflicts over the two breakaway regions to foil Georgia's chances of NATO membership.


http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/200 ... t-regions/

Comments by KIKAPU.

"Russia will be perfectly content if they are pseudo-independent states," Volk added, drawing a parallel with Northern Cyprus, which is only recognised by Turkey".

This whole Russia-Georgia conflict is going to make the West and Turkey not feel at all ease with what is and has been going on in Cyprus since 1963 and particularly since 1974 when Turkey invaded Cyprus and has been occupying the Northern part of Cyprus ever since and with the creation of the "trnc", a pseudo-independent state.. The West has pretty much allowed Turkey to do as she pleases, but now, that irresponsibility on their part is going to come back and bite them in the butt, because Russia is about to do the same with South Ossetia and Abkhazia, and the West is going to Cry Bloody Mary and the Russians are going to say in return,

"Just wait one minute assholes. When a Nato member Turkey did the same in Cyprus, where the hell were you morons to stop it and even object to it, and further more, corrected the situation. Turkey has had a free hand to do as she pleases, despite all the UN resolutions against her, but non of the West's major powers has done anything to reverse the situation from 1974, so take your sorry ass complaints of what we are going to do, and shove them where the sun doesn't shine...( diplomats do not talk this way, but they mean it)".!

Of course the parallels are simple but not exact. South Ossetia and Abkhazia were claimed by Georgia as being part of their state back in 92, but these two states never agreed to that claim and maintained their loyalty to Russia after the break up of Soviet Union, where in Cyprus, the "trnc" was a direct result of the Turkish Invasion and creation and is hardly in a position to annex the north and be legal in doing so. But since the Russians are about to give recognition top South Ossetia and Abkhazia, and the West doing all they can to prevent it from taking place, as well as cause Russians a great deal of political damage, Turkey and the "trnc" are about to find themselves exposed to world stage of the parallels with South Ossetia and Abkhazia, which the Russians will exploit just to embarrass the West and call them HIPOCRITS and DOUBLE STANDARDS, that it is OK if one of their NATO members does it, but not if the Russians do it.

This is why I say, the north should forget about any kind of a recognition or annexation by Turkey if the settlement talks fail, because the West cannot afford to prove the Russians correct with their claims of the West's hypocrisy and double standards. The TC's best use their ability to get a Fair and Just deal in the upcoming settlement talks instead.

[Kikapu]

The Associated PressPublished: September 3, 2008

Cyprus' rival leaders set for historic peace talks


NICOSIA, Cyprus: Leaders of Cyprus' rival communities are preparing for reunification talks, seen as the best chance in years of ending the island's division.

Cyprus President Dimitris Christofias will begin formal negotiations on Wednesday with Turkish Cypriot leader Mehmet Ali Talat.

Both men say they are determined to end Cyprus' division, which has kept the island partioned between Greek and Turkish Cypriots for 34 years. Their display of political will has raised hopes for a deal.

"For the first time, there are two moderate leftist leaders who are believed to be serious in their attempt to solve the problem," said Hubert Faustmann, professor of international relations at Nicosia University.

"Before, you always had at least one Cypriot spoiler."

Cyprus has been divided since 1974, when Turkey invaded in response to a short-lived coup aimed at uniting the island with Greece. Turkey keeps 35,000 troops in the breakaway Turkish Cypriot north.

Past peace efforts have repeatedly foundered on the same sticking points — power-sharing arrangements, property rights for displaced Greek Cypriots, the nature of a future federation and intervention rights for Turkey and Greece. The two countries remain guarantor powers for the island, which gained independence from Britain in 1960.

Fifteen United Nations envoys have tried and failed over the decades to broker a deal to unify the island which has fewer than a million inhabitants.

The last attempt, in 2004, collapsed when Turkish Cypriots voted in favor a U.N. settlement plan but Greek Cypriot voters rejected it.

As a result, Cyprus joined the European Union that year as a divided island with Turkish Cypriots denied the bloc's membership benefits.

But prospects for a deal improved in February when the Communist-backed Christofias was elected president on a campaign pledge of reviving peace talks.

He worked quickly with Talat to create problem-solving committees, and reopened a symbolic border crossing at Ledra Street in the medieval center of the divided capital, Nicosia.

Talat says a deal is possible in the next nine months.

Wednesday's meeting is expected to be largely ceremonial, but the talks have gained urgency because of concern that another failure could calcify the island's partition.

Andrekos Varnava, a history professor at Cyprus European University, said failure this time could transform the Turkish Cypriot north into a "Mediterranean Taiwan".

The two leaders remain at odds over what shape a future reunited Cyprus will take.

Christofias wants a stronger central government with more limited regional powers — addressing his voters' concerns that a federal deal could eventually unravel into formal partition. The 62-year-old Soviet-educated history professor has gained key support from longtime political rivals in his effort to reach a settlement.

Turkish Cypriots seek a loose federation, fearing dominance by Greek Cypriots, who outnumber them by roughly four to one.

Decisions made by Talat, 56, could also be affected by the recent political turmoil in Turkey.

Erol Kaymak, a professor of international relations at the Eastern Mediterranean University, said Turkey may not be ready to sign off on a Cyprus deal.

He said Turkish Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan's Islamic-rooted AK Party may not be willing to make concessions on emotional issues like Cyprus after narrowly surviving a legal challenge at home over alleged anti-secular activities.

"AKP survived in court but it was a close shave," Kaymak said. "So it's likely that AKP will not want to take too many risks."

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/09/ ... -Talks.php

"He said Turkish Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan's Islamic-rooted AK Party may not be willing to make concessions on emotional issues like Cyprus after narrowly surviving a legal challenge at home over alleged anti-secular activities."